Should Palpatine have been in some kind of pain after his face was disfigured by his lightning?

I got to thinking after rewatching ROTS once again about the scene where Mace is deflecting Palpatine's lightning back at him.

I was wondering why after the attack is all over that Palpatine seemed to be suffering no pain at all? I mean he gets up after disposing of Mace and then pronounces Anakin as his new Sith apprentice Darth Vader.

To be honest, he spoke of being weakened when Mace was deflecting the lightning, but he never really spoke of being in pain, nor did he clutch his face or upper body after he stopped casting the lightning.

But after suffering the tremendous effects of his own lightning being put back at him, he gets up rather easily on his own, shows no apparent pain or problems in his body, particularly his marred face.

Is the reason this is because the lightning was cast from Palpatine, so he could not actually be hurt by the very tremendous dark side power that comes from within him?

Or was it due to the probability that Palpatine did possess some knowledge to keep people from dying, that including himself and that is why he was able to recover so quickly after the attack and have little or no pain?

I just thought this was very interesting that he basically showed no pain at all after the attack.


Darth Sin!

 

If i go just by what is on screen i'd easily believe because of details like you have pointed out that the lightening didn't disfigure him, but that he always looked that way and was simply revealed.

That theory is totally debunked by the novel and Lucas but it sure does look that way.

 

You know, this is a really really simple little thing that I don't believe has been brought up in any of the "Sidious's transformation - His true Face or Mace Windu deforming him." type threads. Sith Lord or not, you get your face melted you are going to be hurting pretty badly....and not just for a second or two while your face is in the process of being melted. Vader yells when he is knicked in the shoulder by Luke is ESB and again when his fake hand is cut off in RoTJ. The Emperor screams when he is tossed down the reactor shaft so it is not beyond the Sith to yell out in pain or fear (Dooku was in shock and didn't have time to be in pain later...Maul was sliced cleanly in half killing him instantly so those two do not count.)

The only real defense that I could come up with to explain why he wasn't crying in pain like a little baby is that the dark side was gushing through him like adrenaline in a normal person when they first get injured in a fight.

Yes, it does appear to be canon that Mace injured Sidious, and I really wish that had left it completely ambiguous because this little detail pushes me completely into the "Sidious did not lose to Mace" faction. Thanks for a rather simple but mostly completely overlooked little detail.

Carnage

 

Palps had multiple botox injections done on his face prior to ROTS. The pain from Sith Lightning was miniscule compared to them. Hey, wait a minute ! That would explain why he looked younger in ROTS than in AOTC.

 

The only real defense that I could come up with to explain why he wasn't crying in pain like a little baby is that the dark side was gushing through him like adrenaline in a normal person when they first get injured in a fight.

I still think it was the dark side energy being unleashed that's responsibke for Sidious' transformation. The OS had some words that defended that view, but it's a pretty tough argument now.

One thing I will argue - Sidious is meant to be a mystery. No one knows "the facts" when it comes to him.

 

The real question here is, could Palpatine's own lightning that eminates from him actually hurt him? Sure we see it being deflected back from Mace's lightsaber and it disfiguring his face, but did it actual cause him any real pain?

I mean he screams out to Anakin, "Don't let him kill me....and I am so weak", but the man shows no real evidence that he has been hurt or in any pain, especially in regards to his face. There was even what seemed to be some sort of smoke coming from around his face after the defelcted attack.

Now I am one that has never supported the idea that Palpy was faking in those moments when his Sith lightning was arcing back at him from Mace's lightsaber. However he did not scream out as if he was in pain to his face, or even clutch his face saying that it burned.

I almost have to somewhat go with Carnage's thoughts on this that since at that moment he was so full of the dark side from anger and hatred that it actually was like a "pain killer" that though it disfigured his face, he felt little or no pain, and he actually got stronger when he blasted Mace and tossed him out the window.

There have been many that have theorized that Anakin was able to sustain himself until Palpy arrived on Mustafar through the surging power of the dark side, despite the depths of his burns and injury. So this may well be the case with Palpatine not being in pain, and since he was a long time master of the dark side, he certainly would know how use the dark side to withstand and feel no pain.

"I'm too weak" Yeah right!!

Darth Sin!

 

Excellent viewpoint. Channeling the Dark side as and it acting as adrenaline in that situation is an excellent reason why he felt no pain (at all it seems). You would thinking that through all of the lightning and smoke that Palps would be screaming for mercy like Luke in ROTJ. Perhaps Palps was absorbing that energy, much like Yoda could, and releasing it at the same time, like a conduit of some sort.

 

See, I am of the Scrap the PT and start all over again mindset. In the new version Palpatine ALWAYS looked somewhat deformed and just used his dark force powers to hide his original visage.

I HATE that lightning changes his face. What about his cloak? Didnt burn at all, no scorch marks from the lightning.

It just bugs me. And WE as Lucas lemmings followed along with what George put out. "Sure George, of course, lightning burns only his face, he is no pain, his voice is all distorted for a second, but then he puts his cloak back on his severely burned head and feels NOTHING.

Yeah, you can go the dark side power route, but Anakin screamed in pain when he was burning. Anakin screamed in pain when they were doing surgery on him. Papatine....."I can help you save the one you love" Baloney.

 

Id imagine sidious was in pain, in fact that would have been the primary reason that he stopped the lightning. He probably realised that the only way he could win was to win over Anakin.
If he didnt win Anakin over then he was dead.

1.Keep firing lightning and do irrepairable damage to himself as Mace was deflecting it onto his face.
2. stop the lightning and mace will chop off your head.
ANSWER: Win anakin over, he attacks Mace and gives Sidious the upper hand.

The lightning was destroying his face and would have done serious damage if he didnt stop, I dont believe he was too weak to keep the lightning going. He just didnt want to destroy himself, and knew he could use the "Too weak" card to get Anakin to help him

 

I agree with you to some degree; however his actions did not come across as if he was in pain from his lightning. It was more of a weakening process as he pretty much said himself. But he did not act as one might if their face was being electrocuted or being burned which pretty much was the case since he face was melting as well as transforming.

As I said prior, you would have expected him to have clutched his face and been in extreme pain from the burning. But he did act anywhere near like this when this happened. He then disposes of Mace after Anakin cuts his arm off, and then gets up with no help and shows no sign as if he is hurting in any way.

Again, I have to go with the idea that the power of the dark side within Palpy kept him from any real pain even though he face was disfigured. Or maybe the power that comes from the source cannot hurt the source. Although I do agree that he should have been in pain somewhat like Luke(ROTJ), Anakin(AOTC) and Mace(ROTS) when they got hit with the lightning.

Darth Sin!

 

"There is no pain where strength lies."

A very true Jedi and Sith Philosophy.

 

I HATE that lightning changes his face. What about his cloak? Didnt burn at all, no scorch marks from the lightning.


Yeah. On the other hand, Luke's clothing didnt burn in ROTJ either. Or Yodas in AOTC or ROTS. I guess Force lightning isnt hot enough to ignite cloth.

 

(As he's getting his own face burned off, In his head..."

"Ok Lord Sidious, do not hesistate, keeping firing lightning! This hurts like hell but do what must be done!"

Carnage

 

I don't think it was the lightning that disfigures Palpatine. On the DVD commentary it's said that it's the exertion that disfigures him. McDiarmid also compares the Sidious aspect of his character to Mr. Hyde i.e. "Sidious" was being suppressed by "Palpatine." All of this together suggests to me that the act of finally unleashing all of that dark side energy is what deformed Palpatine, not the lightning. From what I've heard the lightning wasn't reflected back on Palpatine in the earliest drafts of the script. I think the reflected lightning was included later as a parallel to Luke in ROTJ, while the transformation itself is the result of using the darkside energy.

 

The only real flaw with the "exertion" theory might be if his hands weren't disfigured as well.

If it's exertion it will affect his body evenly, his whole body will look the way his face does.

If it's because of the lightning then it would have been better to show it actually hit is face, have some effect on his clothing and such as well.

Truly this was just a bad job of writing by lucas, and no matter how much we try to painfully pretend it's something else, that's all it is.

He didn't need to show us anything more than the dramatic aging effect that we saw in Palpantine in AotC being continued.

The notion of an "instant change" is not a very convincing one and it's execution is beyond terrible.

The movie would be better off without this scene because it, and it's explanations, just don't make coherant story sense.

This is the kind of thing that causes a viewer to have trouble suspending their 'disbelief', that is always a sign of bad film making.

 

TaradosGon
I don't think it was the lightning that disfigures Palpatine. On the DVD commentary it's said that it's the exertion that disfigures him. McDiarmid also compares the Sidious aspect of his character to Mr. Hyde i.e. "Sidious" was being suppressed by "Palpatine." All of this together suggests to me that the act of finally unleashing all of that dark side energy is what deformed Palpatine, not the lightning. From what I've heard the lightning wasn't reflected back on Palpatine in the earliest drafts of the script. I think the reflected lightning was included later as a parallel to Luke in ROTJ, while the transformation itself is the result of using the darkside energy.

I agree with this 110% and I think it's a tough argument to defend because GL wants to keep it mysterious.

Malikail
Truly this was just a bad job of writing by lucas, and no matter how much we try to painfully pretend it's something else, that's all it is.

I respectfully disagree, the whole scene is burned into my mind, it's really powerful psychologically. I think it does have meaning, but it's not obvious. That doesn't make it bad to me, it's still really compelling.

Take any frame from the PT or the OT, 98% chance it will look like a painting. That's no accident, GL is an incredible director. His writing might be secondary, but it doesn't take away from the visuals (for me at leact).

 

with all deference to Lucas' editing and ability to create a visually stunning film, in this area we do dissagree because his ability to put together a coherant story has always been questionible.

In this case it's pathetic.

You find it to be a good looking scene, i agree but please tell me what the "not obvious" meaning is and how it relates to a story in a direct and coherant way.

No "certain point of view" references involved please, if the explanation is that tortured then it's a waste of time to try.

 

Palpatine is not in pain, so it does not hurt him. At best he surprsess his pain. He fakes being weak and unable to hold on. Don't make it harder than it needs to be.

 

I'm not making it hard myself.

I'm trying to make it an intelligent coherant story, am i wasting my time?

I'm starting to think so.

 

thts what i believe . hs real face was revealed.

 

I don't care if it is or isn't what Lucas intended but I like to consider the scene as the "Unmasking" of Palpatine's true face. I just wish George had continued with the ageing process that had obviously begun in AOTC..it makes more sense to have the Dark Side decay Palpatine over time.

 

Malikail
I'm not making it hard myself.
I'm trying to make it an intelligent coherant story, am i wasting my time?
I'm starting to think so.

Well, idk, the disfiguration is not integral to the basic plot. I think it's a debate point/

I think when Sidious unleashed his full hate for the first time, directly at Mace Windu, defender of the Jedi, after so many years of acting, the darkside ravaged him from the inside out. When I look at Darth Maul, I don't think he could be a senator. When I look at Darth Sidious or Vader, same. They are sith, not politicians.

Count Dooku was rarely called Tyrannus, he was still acting like a negotiator mostly. A lot of people debate whether he was a true sith, because of his calm attitude. A true sith gives into their hate and emotion.

 

interesting that you should mention Maul.

His horns coloration and eyes would generally leave one to believe he was in a state of decay himself.

It seems to me that the original idea was that the dark side corrupts you over time but that somewhere along the way, probably for the visual scene we get in RotS it was changed.

Interesting points indeed.

 

Malikail
interesting that you should mention Maul.
His horns coloration and eyes would generally leave one to believe he was in a state of decay himself.
It seems to me that the original idea was that the dark side corrupts you over time but that somewhere along the way, probably for the visual scene we get in RotS it was changed.

His horns were yellowed? That is cool, I never knew that. I just thought his facial tattoos were too aggressive for a life in politics. Sort of the Mike Tyson look.

 

if you look at still shots of maul there is a discoloration creaping up from the base, it sorta resembles tooth decay.

pretty disgusting looking, it might be normal for his species but given how visual lucas is i don't think so.

just my oppinion really.