Should the " The Unifying Force" have been the end?

Many star wars fans think that LOTF and FoTJ are not as good quality as the previous star wars series.

LOTF is known for alot of character derailment, and it seems many fans hate that they threw things created in the NJO down the drain.

Although i have not read "The Unifying Force", i heard that it was made to be a sort of conclusion for the Big 3 (Luke, Leia, Han). If that is true, would it have been better for the story of the characters in NJO to just end with that book? That way at least the "good guys" earn their "happy ending". After all they fought a huge war, they deserve a happy ending. The Big 3 deserve a rest, and Jacan would still be alive as well as Mara Jade.

So if you had it your way would you take LOTF and FoTJ out of canon? If you did that, would you keep Legacy?

 

Lets put it this way, there will never be another perfect opportunity to end the story of the Big 3 the way TUF did. NJO wasn't just a 19 book war epic, it also dealt with themes and characters built up over years and years. We got to see the Big 3 plus their friends and children grow. All of which built up to NJO. We got to see familiar planets from previous books created years before, destroyed, beloved characters killed. Got to see the big 3 and there supporting cast taken to their limit. We got to see the signs of the torch being passed from the B3 to Jacen, Jaina, and the younger Jedi.

add all of that to a book that perfectly ended a series properly. ONe that crammed as many characters from the past as it could into the story. With epic battles, great scenes for the new gen and old, and a passing of the torch from Luke to Jacen. All in one book. Can't be beaten in terms of great endings to Star Wars book sega's.

Then a couple years later we got to watch everything built up come crashing down just as quick. Almost to the point where it seemed the NJO didn't happen.

If the EU had to continuie then we should have got stories about Jacen, Jaina, and the new gen of Jedi taking over and going on adventures. With the big 3 and older gen of Jedi in the background helping very little. Luke being leader of the council, Leia being a Queen, and Han being the husband of a queen. And it's those moments I would have liked to see with the old cast. What would Han be doing if not being a hero? Bored to death probably, not to mention having to deal with two wookies. Was it not both Chewie's son and Lowie who were going to both continuie the life dept in TUF? Either way it would make for some humorous moments.

Yet in the end we got LOTJ and FOTJ, which really amount to nothing more then just being another Star Wars story. Worst part about it is there's nothing that can be done about it. You can only, as fans, choose your ending. And I'm happy to say that Star Wars ended for me with THE UNIFYING FORCE.

Can you blame Del Rey and LFL? Yes and no. From their point of view they were correct in seeing that the 19 book epic and the Vong had tired out the fan base. While at the same time they saw that the mega event series sold a good many books. Plus the fact that ROTS had come out recently and the idea of the Sith returning was big on everyone's minds, fans too(wonder if we regret that one?) Put those together and you get LOTF. A shorter series that dealt little with what happened in the NJO or retconned it away, and brought the more popular light vs Darkside myths back into the franchise. I made it to about book 4 in LOTF, and haven't bought a Star Wars novel since.

EDIT...also let me add that NJO gave us a superb villain in Nom Anor. Second only to Thrawn in greatest Star Wars villains of all time..IMO.

 

This breaks down to two seperate suggestions as I see it.

1. Should Luke, Han and Leia's story ended with TUF?.

This would have been a difficult move for the novels. While some may not like the direction LOTF and FOTJ can anyne honestly suggest that we shouldn't have Luke & Ben adventures?

For a book company that combination is money waiting to be made. For Luke fans, they want to see him as a great father, as the principle influence in his son's life.

So no I don't feel that should have been the end.

2. This whole canon issue.

I think it should all be canon. I didn't like The Crystal Star, I don't like The Force Unleashed, I don't think highly of Coruscant Nights or The Glove of Darth Vader, but they should all be canon.

Thats just how the system works, it may not be perfect but its a lot better than having someone or some group deciding "I hate this book, that book and this other one, so as such they should all be bumped from canon and forever forgotten."

I just don't see how that can work in the long run.

 

TUF was set to have a perfect ending with the Yuuzhan Vong defeated with a peaceful resolution to the conflict and a new generation bringing about peace for the galaxy which had united in the wake of the invasion. Having said that, I never expected that the books would end there and always believed they would continue anyway. Not saying they shouldnt have but just saying that there was an ending in NJO if they wanted to stop it there. I am not sure they will get the same opportunity in future books. Besides, now it will look like the timeline and books will try and fill the era between FotJ to Legacy era potentially.

 

Oh, I do miss the feeling of closure and excitement for the future that James Luceno crafted perfectly in TUF. The galaxy was victorious, the Galactic Alliance was stable, the Empire was an honorable ally, the Jedi Order has survived and learned valuable lessons, and the Vong escaped a horrible genocide.

The Big Three were riding off into the sunset. The future of the galaxy was in the hands of a new generation.

God help me, I pray that Dark Horse decides to do a post-Legacy series. Cause if we let Del Rey be in charge of the future (ie, 138 ABY - ???), I might be done with Star Wars.

--Adm. Nick

 

I don't think it should have been an end, but it should have been a definite shift to having the Big Three (Four) play supporting roles, while the younger Jedi really come into their own. Luke could have been leading the Council, Leia could have been the Jedi diplomat Luke always encouraged her to be, Han could have gone back into the military as an advisor, or just have his own adventures smuggling with Lando or Droma or Karrde or whoever. Jaina and Jacen could have had their own adventures, pulling in help from the older generation when needed, but still having the younger generation as the main characters . And then there could have been side stories, similar to the X-wing series, and we still could have gotten a Luke-Ben team-up series or books. Instead, at 60-70 years old the Big Three are still the focus of the post-RotJ EU, so much that it no longer makes sense. It saddens me that the Jedi Order can't get their act together in FotJ without Luke. It doesn't speak well for Luke's teachings.

 

TFu was a fitting end to the post-ROTJ EU. I don't know about being the end, as Star Wars EU is serial in nature and people still want to swallow new Luke Skywalker adventures, but at least they should have taken some to, you know, think the next steps.

 

Mane and Mara basically summed up my position as well.

I'd have preferred to see the Big 3 taking a step back and letting the new generation carry the torch. By all means, every now and again you could still have had a stand-alone where the Big 3 may have been called out of retirement to some mysterious problem out on th fringes of the Alliance, but the main galaxy-spanning wars should have fallen to the younger generation(s).

We've still had stories like Mindor and Zahn's upcoming book, so the Big 3 would still get their own adventures. But having a sixty year old Luke still running about as the main hero is not the way you keep Luke Skywalker in the books, since that isn't keeping him alive, as he cannot and is not the farm boy we first met in ANH: he's a middle-aged father and should act like one. Being the wise sage and allowing his son and nephews to do the fighting would not have diminished his role in the story; it would just have been realistic: people grow old and die.

Right now, Del Rey have forgotten that even Luke Skywalker is mortal. His hair will go grey one day. He won't be able to jump mountains when floating on his hover chair. His inability to grow old gracefully isn't doing his character any favours, just making him look like an old fool unwilling to face up to his own age. I'd prefer the hero I got to know when I was a boy was still providing a worthwhile message, which I don't consider 60-is-the-new-16 is fulfiling. Luke Skywalker as an old man would still inspire me. An old man who can't act his age doesn't.

 

Zorrixor : Luke Skywalker as an old man would still inspire me. An old man who can't act his age doesn't.

Well, since 120 is supposed to be the average lifespan in that GFFA, and since Jedi can live longer, I don't think you can actually say that Luke is an "old man" in the LotF or FotJ books yet. So it doesn't bother me that always-active Luke is still active. However, I agree that we should also be seeing the younger characters "stepping up" and showing that they *are* capable and useful.

I have to say though that after reading the NJO, DN, LotF, and most of FotJ, I actually wish that the Post-RotJ EU had ended not with TUF, but with Vision of the Future. As much as I like reading about the Big Three, I think that actually would have been the perfect place to end the story of Luke, Leia, Han, and their immediate family. The future was bright and full of promise for all of them and for the galaxy and the Jedi. One could imagine all kinds of fun adventures in the Unknown Regions and a happy, exciting, busy life for all of the characters still ahead.

Instead, the books continued, and everything went downhill at the speed of light for the heroes of Yavin and Endor. It's disappointing really. The future certainly didn't go in any direction that I would have expected or wanted for Luke, Leia, Han, and their families and friends.

 

To be fair, Qui-Gon was 60 in TPM, yet didn't show any signs of age, and nearly fought someone like Darth Maul, 40 years his junior, to a stand still. Obi-Wan was nearly the same age, and he took on Vader, and probably could have gone a lot longer before being eventually cut down. Then of course there is Dooku, who at 80 could still show Obi-Wan and Anakin a thing or two. Palpatine was still the most powerful being in the universe at the same age, and that doesn't mention Yoda, although it's not really fair to use him as an example, since we don't know anything about his species.

In others words, I don't think age effects a particularly powerful Jedi as much as it would others. However, I'm not saying I want Luke running around the galaxy, solving everyone's problems; I don't. That's what the other Jedi are for. Yoda stayed in the temple to train the children, and I'd imagine Luke would want to slide into that role, even if he's fully capable of kicking ass at the age of 90. Not to mention I'd like to see some of the other Jedi in action. I actually wouldn't mind that, for the most part, we don't read from Luke's perspective. It could be fun to see how the younger Jedi view him, how he teaches them.

 

It shouldn't have ended there, but it SHOULD have IMO, ended the "galactic war" plot item.

I get that Star Wars has the word "WAR" in the title, but you don't need to make up your own galaxy spanning conflict every time you start a new series.

 

Except the whole reason 60 started being the new 40 is because they couldn't bring themselves to start writing Luke growing older, like should have happened parallel to Jacen and Jaina taking the reigns as the heroes. Until they suddenly decided to go for hard sci-fi rather than space opera mythology, people were growing old like regular people, hence Mon Mothma and others from the original OT line-up having died by now.

I respected Yoda because he died in his sleep. Had I seen Ninja Frog assaulting the Death Star in ROTJ, I doubt I'd ever have found Star Wars interesting. It'd just have been another of the many crappy sci-fi films of the 1980s. Star Wars was moving because it was relatable. Han Solo long ceased to be relatable when he ceased to age.

 

I don't think our loss of interest comes with growing up. Yeah, I certainly don't look forward for a book as before, but when I get them I enjoy them if they are good. I recently read Solo Command, and dear god, what a tremendous book. I'm beginning Isard's Revenge in 2 o 3 weeks when I finish the book I am currently reading.

Last summer I read I, Jedi and it became my favourite SW book without a second thought.

I should probably put in my sing, but I really think we need the likes of Stackpole to give new live to the post-njo universe. Either him or Luceno.

 

I definitely agree Han Solo shouldn't be traveling the galaxy at age 70, like he was the same man that you see in the Brian Daley novels. Han is really there to be the guy you can relate to, surrounded by aliens people who can kill with a thought. I've always liked the image of a "grandpa" Han, given some of his thoughts in the Han Solo Trilogy.

Still, I think if Dooku can do what he does at his age, Luke, who's about 20 years younger, should be even more capable. Of course, even though Yoda was the most capable Jedi of his day, he still chose to mostly stay at the temple and train the children. I actually think Luke should be a bit more like Yoda, not necessarily in personality, but in his overall presence. He's mostly reserved, rarely does anything "on screen" but offer words of wisdom, but on those rare occasions when he does something, it's a big deal. Things are rarely ever told from Yoda's point of view, either, which I think adds a lot to him.

Anyway, on a similar topic, about the age limit being 120... wasn't that established in Truce at Bakura? If so, that was before the authors started having problems with Luke being too powerful, I believe (wasn't it the first novel to follow Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy?). I do think it makes sense for most humans to live longer than they would in the real world, but I still think age 70, in Han's case, would be really up there, even in SW.

 

That's what I'm getting at more than anything, yes.

In the end, it simply comes down to how Obi-Wan didn't say: "You will go to the Dagobah system. There you will team up with Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me, and together the two of you will battle the Emperor." Like you said, Yoda got his presence on screen not so much from doing a lot, but more from standing back and doing very little. That tranquillity was a hugely powerful symbol, but one that's sadly lacking from the novels.

It'd have been a heck of a lot harder for Daala to stereotype the Jedi as an illegal militia if its leader hadn't personally raise his hand in violence in years.

 

If it were written as a conclusion to the "present" of the EU, then yes. As it is written now, no.

 

TUF need not have been the end...

It should have been the beginning of a new era

the New Jedi Order...

Jacen could/should have become the new Luke Skywalker, and we should have seen the New Jedi Order grow

 

Could've, should've, would've, but final answer, no.

 

Well, Del Rey is going to do everything pre-Legacy including the Sith-Imperial War since Dark Horse is letting them so that is going to be awful. As far as I am concerned, Del Rey should not even try to use the characters from Legacy because it is going to be one massive screw up. You think the GA is bad now, Del Rey is going to ruin the GA shown in Legacy and probably say they got their act together right before the Sith-Imperial War. Then the crap hits the fan and then it becomes worse than how it is portrayed currently in Legacy. I can't wait.

I am getting sick and tired of the crap being put out by Del Rey with the current novels, but I will still buy the books and read them. I guess it is a curse.

 

Should it have been the end at the time? No. It should have been a pivot point, a great transition away from the big three and toward the new generation in an excitingly, invigoratingly changed universe.

Should it have been the end knowing what we know now? Yes. The ongoing narrative ever since has been beyond worthless; it's been incredibly, irreparably damaging to the universe. Better nothing at all than what we got.

 

Well, there's the end and then there's the end. Does ending the "ongoing" story of adventures after the movies mean the same thing as never leaping vastly far into the future to start telling new stories over? In other words, does the existence of the movie era mean that you can't put a conclusion, an "end" on the TOR period? A book, update to the game, whatever, that ends the True Sith threat, resolves the storylines, gives you an idea of a peaceful resolution afterward, and stops the narrative driving forward from that point? "You can't say that you want the driving plot, The Continuing Ongoing Rolling Ever Forward Story, the Big Three's story, to end at TUF because then you're not allowed to have stories set a hundred years later where everybody's dead because I say those are the rules!" doesn't really get at the meat of what's actually being argued. Saying you want The Story to end somewhere doesn't necessarily, as some kind of argument-ending rule, mean that you're somehow banning leaps into far-future generations and setting some bar you can never pass, any more than saying that you don't want to see an endless procedure of stories about Plagueis's Master, and his Master's Master, all the way back to Bane, and they should cut it off at Plagueis, means by definition that you don't want them to make New Sith Wars stories.

Some people might mean that they want a hard, never-passed line drawn. But in a discussion that's been framed as being about the Big Three's legacy and whether they need to be retired and what's happened to their kids, that's not somehow part of the argument by definition. You can just run in and lay on some arbitrary condition, some line-drawing of one's own that says it's an all-or-nothing proposition and the rules are you have to allow LOTF if you want to have anything set anytime afterward ever.

As for DR's response, they started off in one direction, some people complained, so they went back and then went off in a different direction, and then more people complained, so they went back on that and tried a different direction. If they roll back now because even more people are complaining, they'll have managed to undo all their progress without ever actually getting anywhere. Their chosen method of response is the whole problem. Rather than having any vision of where they're going, they react moment by moment, jerking back and forth spastically and abandoning what they just constructed in order to try to overwrite it with some slapdash attempt at a fix that generally ignores what the actual problem was in favor of cutting the heart out of the last story as if to shout "See, we didn't mean it!" and hoping that makes everybody happy, but just ends up turning the whole thing into an incoherent mess.

No amount of trying a different direction post-FOTJ and stopping the big series and letting Allston and Luceno and Stover and whoever else run around doing fun one-offs that don't hurt anything is going to fix the fact that they destroyed most of the next generation, had most of the surviving heroes turn into horrible, horrible people, had the Jedi start killing each other, had the GA turn into an incompetent mess, squandered the setup for Legacy . . . all that's still there. I love what they've done with Ben. But I'd pass on that just to be able to live in a universe where the galaxy did not allow Natasi Daala to rule it, where the Jedi Council Masters did not kill each other because they can't stand the idea of peaceful negotiations, where Han Solo's last words to his son weren't "Personally, I'd just as soon blast you back to atoms and pretend you died in that fight with Onimi." I would sooner end with laughter on Kashyyyk, and the warm glow of my imagination, than have to endure that lurking behind every story I get from then on, to have Han and Leia and Luke and Jaina and Jacen and Saba and Kenth and Gavin and Corran ruined for me.

 

Yeah... I don't know where "end at TUF and you lose Legacy" has come from. End at TUF and you can skip to Legacy, missing out all the silliness inbetween.

 

I'd decanonize the NJO along with LOTF and FOTJ; Legacy can ride the wagon to hell, too; I have no patience for such unoriginal, PT-inspired junk.

The Hand of Thrawn duology should have been "The End" as far as I'm concerned.