Similarities between DUNE and STAR WARS

DUNE:-------------------------- STAR WARS:
PULSE SWORDS ------------------- LIGTH SABERS
SWORDMASTERS OF GINAZ ------------ JEDI/SITH
ROBOTS ARMIES --------------- DROIDS ARMIES
CLONES -------------------- CLONE ARMY
CYBORGS RACE --------------- GENERAL GREVIOUS/CYBORG CHARACTERS
SPICE MIND POWERS ------------- THE FORCE

These are just the similarities that I've noticed. I listened to over 36 hours of the Dune series on audio cd while on road trips (got it at the city library). I've listened to the whole series except the first triology about the Butler family and the destruction of earth.

The movies about Paul Atreides are the very, very, VERY end of the Dune series. It's like watching Episode VI of star wars and having no clue about the rest of the story. The thing is that DUNE was written and came out around 1965 and the first Star Wars scripting was started around 1971. I've looked around on the forums and on other sites and no one seems to be able to make the link with the Swordmasters of Ginaz with their "Electromagnetic Pulse Swords" which they use to slay robots, their use of mind discipline; AND jedi/sith with their use of "Light Sabers" for 'droid' slaying and anything else that needs slaying. The Robots in Dune are self aware and at war with humanity for hundreds of years, while the Star Wars droids are just computer controlled robots that only follow their intended programming.

There are other post that point out many other similaries in the essences and story line. I've only posted here what I've noticed but havent seen posted anywhere.


Edit: I changed the thread title for broader appeal and better spelling.

 

There has been extensive discussion about this, but it was years ago, in another forum -- I think the CT Forum -- and it was under the more general topic of "Inspirations for STAR WARS". If I can find it I'll provide a link for archival/reference purposes, but by all means feel free to talk about it here in this new thread!

I'll further point out the rather obvious Tatooine/Arrakis connection, the link between the Fremen and the Tusken Raiders, and that the "witch" order to which Paul's mother belongs is also similar to the Jedi.

 

Not true. The later books go much farther into the future ( thousands of years later ).

 

But how much of those simlarities just came from Herbert and not the KJ Anderson/Herbert's son continuation of the series?

I've only read the original. There are some similarities, but I don't remember all those you listed.

 

Pulse swords, the cymeks and the like are from Brian Herbert/KJA's novels, which were based on Frank's notes. The last two novels of the actual dune series were also written by Brian Herbert/KJA, which were also based on Frank's notes.

There are a bunch of similarities between Dune and Star Wars, but i'm too tired to get into it right now. I also remember a thread about this.

That "witch order" is the Bene Gesserit.

 

If you're interested in this you should check out:
http://moongadget.com/origins/dune.html

I do think that sometimes in these discussions people have a tendency to stretch similarities. However, in the case of Dune there are a number of similarities (mentions of 'spice mines' for example) to the extent that it seems very likely Lucas was inspired by the novel.

 

The skeleton passed by 3PO in the desert in ANH was supposedly meant to be a "sandworm skeleton" as a kind of Dune reference. Of course, we all know sandworms don't have skeletons like that.

 

It was a Krayt dragon skeleton, even though it may have been meant to be a sandworm skeleton.

 

The dragon skeleton may have been meant as a nod to the Dune sandworm, or to evoke it in the mind of those in the know, but it doesn't really look anything like a sandworm except that its body is elongated and serpentine. Sandowrms don't have reptillian heads, for starters!

 

This topic is super-sensitive.

Do you know what you are talking about - or do you simply question Star Wars using similarities to Dune?

 

I'm not certain what makes the question of SW's numerous inspirations "super-sensitive", XAeon. It's well-known and well-documented that Lucas culled ideas, motifs and images from a variety of different sources; Dune appears to be one of these.

And to whom are you addressing your question?

 

I address my question to anyone who thinks it is wise to criticize one while simultaneously disarming the other.

 

I don't anyone was criticizing one over the other.

 

fixed.

 

Also, there is another similarity. Erasmus is a robot with gold skin. (sounds like 3PO) Erasmus is such an important character in the Dune Machine Wars. On the Audio CDs his voice sounds almost identical to 3PO also.

 

Again, that's Kevin J. Anderson for ya.

 

Another character from the Brian Herbert/KJA novels, and far deadlier than 3PO ever could be. The similarites are superficial at best, especially in the Hunter and Sandworms of Dune.

 

The above-linked pages (and surrounding site) are fascinating reading, both as an exploration of the Saga's origins as well as those of Herbert's Dune. To its lengthy catalog of similarities I would add that in both works there is a rebellion against the Empire. It's difficult to make a chart work on these boards, but here's my best shot at pasting the correspondences as recorded in the above-linked site :

Star Wars // Dune

Princess Leia // Princess Alia (pronounced a-leia)

Villain turns out to be hero's father // Villain turns out to be hero's grandfather

Tatooine a desert planet // Arrakis (Dune) a desert planet

Sandcrawler - Vehicle piloted by Jawas, "left over from a forgotten mining era long ago" // Sandcrawler - Vehicle piloted by Arrakins, used to mine for spice

Moisture Farmers (like Uncle Owen) // Dew Collectors: "...used by Fremen to line concave planting depressions where they provide a small but reliable source of water"

Spice Mines of Kessel (mentioned in passing) // Spice is the most valued commodity in the universe, mined from Dune

Jedi Mind Trick - Jedi ability which controls the actions of others // The Voice - Bene Gesserit ability which controls the actions of others

Jedi Bendu, the Jedi training technique which gives them excellent internal control as well as supernatural prowess in combat // Prana Bindu, the Bene Gesserit training technique which gives them excellent internal control as well as supernatural prowess in combat

Vision of Obi-Wan appears to Luke on Hoth, while he's seemingly dying // Vision of Pardot Kynes appears to Liet-Kynes in the desert, while he's dying

The Trade Federation has a monopoly on shipping in space // The Spacing Guild has a monopoly on shipping and transportation in space

Luke practices his lightsaber technique against an automated training remote // Alia practices her sword technique against an automated training dummy

Millennium Falcon barely escapes from the jaws of giant, sightless space slug before it falls back into the asteroid // The Duke's ornithopter barely escapes from the jaws of a giant, sightless sandworm before it falls back into the dunes

Luke spies on the Sandpeople using electrobinoculars // Paul spies on the Fremen using electric binoculars

Repulsors - Small devices which counteract gravity (used in the landspeeder, speeder bikes, pod racers and Jabba's barge) // Suspensors - Small devices which counteract gravity (used to suspend the Baron Harkonnen and Glowglobes)

Jabba (1983) is a worm/slug thing, about 15 feet long, with human-like facial features, arms and hands, who sits atop a dais // Leto II, God Emperor of Dune (1981), is a worm/slug thing, about 15 feet long, with human-like facial features, arms and hands, who sits atop a dais

 

This has always been an interesting connection and I do think that the concept of Arrakis/Tatooine is probably the strongest bond between them. It might interest you to read through a vintage saga thread on this very topic. Dune's Influence on the Saga.

I remember that thread as an insightful one--though it was years ago.

-Seldon

 

Seldon, thanks for finding that thread! I don't know how you did it; the search engine on these boards leaves alot to be desired. Anyway, well done; it's an excellent thread and I highly recommend it for anyone interested in this topic.

EDIT: I will further add, though, that the perception that Lucas "stole" his ideas from Dune is overstating the case. Examining the link that Pizza-the-Hutt provided, above, reveals that Herbert was influenced by world mythology and ancient folkloric tropes in the same way as Lucas was. I do not doubt that Lucas read Dune and was affected by it, but the broadstroke similarities -- specialized or "magic" weapons, supernatural powers, prophecied messianic figures, royal offspring, etc. -- are features that many fantastical tales also share.

 

This strays away from the Saga and enters into the realm of EU--but it does explain certain connections. Kevin Anderson of the Jedi Academy book trilogy really developed a lot of connections between the "Star Wars" of Lucas and Herbert's "Dune." Anderson was a protege of sorts to Herbert and has written books for both the Dune and SW universes. In his EU work, Anderson developed variations of spice and the underground worms and also emphasized the desert planet aspect. That is solely EU but is an interesting connection.

Both Lucas and Herbert were clearly inspired by mythology. Lucas just formatted his narrative into Campbell's "Hero with a Thousand Faces."

-Seldon

 

Sometimes in the PT it seems as if Lucas has put in slight hints of Truthsay and the Voice.

 

Where?

 

Well, the overall saga connection would be between the Voice and the Jedi Mind Trick. But I thought possibly AOTC was hinting at Dune's use of Voice in some way.

Also, from the ROTS script:

ANAKIN: I simply don't sense betrayal in Senator Amidala.

I'm equating this, in addition to the Jedi's seeming confidence in their ability to question captives, with a form of Truthsay.