Lit Sith and Sith Empires (A quasi Theory)

So, I have a bit a theory/ headcanon that in terms of how the NuCanon could handle the Sith and Sith Empires whenever we start to explore the NuCanon version of the Old Republic.

The idea is simple: The SITH existed until the last big war between them and the Jedi...But SITH EMPIRES, came and went but there were always Sith in the public knowledge.

So the idea is that there are always Sith running around during these times but Formal Sith Empires with Emperors or High Commands and would come and go.

So then you can have the Revan Empire, the True Sith Empire, the Ruin Sith Empire, but when they fell the Sith themselves weren't thought of as destroyed.

So their would be like litter interim periods where there were no Sith Empires but Sith themselves would run around, causing chaos and what not, like Momin.

I like this idea personally (And not just because it's my own...lol) because I feel that instead of the Jedi thinking the Sith are gone only to return again, the Sith can always be around (Until the last big Jedi-Sith War that leads to Bane) but Sith Empires and Organizations can still come and go and be defeated.

Just a idea of mine, curious to see what people think.

 

We know that the Sith occupied Coruscant at one point (the Jedi Temple built on the ruins or the source of a dark side power which the Sith once controlled-the novel, Tarkin), and therefore controlled most if not all of the galaxy (Mace's comment about the oppression of the Sith never returning).

 

True but that was the Sith as a organized Empire though? Probably.

But there were multiple Jedi/Sith wars, so what happened in-between those big conflicts is what I'm talking about, since there could have been a lot of Sith but not a unified Empire.

 

I take it that was an empire since it was the organization responsible for the entire last war between the two, and occupied Coruscant destroying the republic. The other sith wars happened before all that. So stuff like Momin, or the Hundred Year Darkness, or any other the other farther back stuff can be just about anything. Have the sith ever even been called an empire yet in canon? We can play fast and loose after all, like how the New Sith Empire which spawned the Brotherhood of Darkness, are hardly an empire according to all the sources we have in legends.

What is that Voltaire quote?

 

In Canon YES, in Aftermath Empire's End there is mention of the "Old Sith Empire"-This video has it mentioned here....Somewhere.


Master and Apprentice almost mentions a Sith Empire (I think...I'm pretty positive) because the planet Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan go to was controlled by the Sith Empire and there were crystals being sold or mined or something.

Most of the time they are called "The Sith" but there have been a few mentions recently of the times when "The Sith Empire" reigned supreme, which is probably that time when Coruscant fell and the Old Republic was pretty much crumbled. Which if I had to guess is the Canon Equivalent to the Brotherhood of Darkness/New Sith Empire of Legends. So it could be Canon and "The Sith Empire" Canon has mentioned has been that time mentioned more or less, as you have stated before.


Although the idea that the Sith Empire is like the Holy Roman Empire is interesting idea considering how the Sith function, they all control this territory but it's more or less everyone Sith for themselves and only every now and then they get together because they wanna go against the Jedi and Old Republic.

It's not a one on one comparison obviously, but it's definitely a good starting point if they wanna go that way.

 

I really just want Sith Charlemagne. And then Jedi Napoleon to finally kill the decrepit corpse of the empire

 

@Jid123Sheeve & @Sinrebirth

I think, after TOR and Darth Desolous, Sith was so common a term it survived a species, multiple empires and got muddied to the point of every footsoldier, forcesensitive or not that served the Sith Empire was called a Sith. Like Jedi got synonymous for Forceuser in general (i.e. Dark Jedi originating as a term subsequent to that), Sith became synonymous with the followers of the ideology, belief and religion that the Sith Lords/species started and made availeable to the public in previous times. Sith no order but an ideology by then. Maybe the term Dark Jedi evolved especially because Sith no longer was exclusive to Forceusers.
Heck Sith may even have been a political party of nonforcesensitives within the Republic senate post the fall of the last Sith Empire!

This commonalisation of the term Sith was something the Banite Sith tried to repeat after the Ruusan Reformations banned everything Sith and purged it galaxywide whereever possible. (Think even C3POs translation block) The foundations of the Church of the Dark Side, even if via rogue Banite Sith, and other machinations tried to return the Sith into the heads of the common people, not just Forceusers.

Bet when Ruin was called a Sith people just shrugged and went like "Yeah, so? Many are... let him believe whatever he wants" until he made himself a Dark Lord and folks went "Dude, he's serious."

 

Interesting...Interesting.

I also had a weird way you could do it similar to the Silmarillion's and the First Age of Middle Earth. Jedi being the Elves and the Sith being the Orcs.

The Sith are a constant threat yes but the wars they fight go on and off, some centuries are better than others and the Sith threat is kept mostly to whatever borders they control.

The final battle being similar to the War of Wrath that eventually breaks the world hence why after the war the Galaxy essentially begins at Year 0 again with the High/Galactic Republic.

Only difference between Star Wars and Middle Earth is The enemy was always the same (Morgoth) here you can have multiple Dark Lord threats throughout the ages.

But the idea is that the Sith are never "Destroyed" just "Containted" until the Final final battle

 

Vitiate.

Lord Hoth.

 

I think this idea is already established in Legends/EU. We have an entire Sith civilization that became isolated geographically. It was more than an Empire and instead an entire civilization, mode of living,

The word "Sith" has come to mean all sorts of things in-universe. We have the Sith species which itself became a conglomerate with the Sith purebloods, the Sith of mixed blood, and the Massassi Warriors.

Perhaps the important thing to note is where we have Sith Emperors sitting on the timeline.

 

The Ragnos/Sadow/Kressh era Sith Empire’s head of state was called the “Dark Lord of the Sith”, but the state that they ruled was called the “Sith Empire”.

By the way, I wonder where the pincerbug forehead tattoo tradition started.

 

forehead tatoo tradition? all the way back:




Rakata traditions for their human forcehound slaves.... that somehow darksiders picked up. Makes me wonder if the tatoo is, given its rather limited time of use, a similiar practice. Most Sith used none. And the ones we know were used during Vitiates reign from the shadows far away. Maybe it was his way of marking his "Forcehounds" that believed themselves to be Dark Lords despite secretly serving one even darker they didn't even know...

 

I thought Vitate’s reign didn’t begin until the Sith Holocaust. I wish they made Vitiate the power behind the Ragnos/Sadow/Kressh Sith Empire, but I’m not aware of any such thing ever being suggested.

 

Ragnos was Vitate's master...So....That wouldn't have worked out.

 

That’s how they ended up writing, but it’s not what I would have done.

 

I suggest, while his reign as Emperor did only began after that conflict, there might have been something he based his rise to Emperor on, behind the scenes of the conflict. Anyway, the tradition of tatoos started before maybe, but nevertheless may be related to how he implemented it. Or how he in unision with the Dark Lords spirits did, assuming the apparitions were the real deal and not faked by Vitiate remote projecting.

 

I'll be curious to see if we ever get a Viate style sith lord again...Maybe Torm Valum ????

Or will any Old Republic movie just be (Sith Lord at the time) instead of the grand puppet master ala Palpatine before Palpatine.

 

They sure need to be careful to not make Palpatine pale in comparison of whatever new guy or gal they do.

Tor Valum strikes me less of a puppeteer and behind the scenes schemer. He is more like one whose aspirations never took him beyond teaching others due to some limitation but he was good at what he did which is why others kept him around to instruct their apprentices in their absence when busy.

Another idea I had is, what if Tor Valum actually is dead when we meet him yet appears alive only? Because he can only be on said planet, stuck to it forever. If he leaves he crumbles. That explains his teaching and lack of conflict with other Sith that used him only as test for their apprentices.

That might have evolved into the symbiosis/leeching Oracle concept of something stuck to something else.


But for novelty's sake, they need to do some female badguys more often. Maybe not antifeministic seductress Darth Talon style but good decent villains like Talzin and else. Kinda like... you thought dealing with the Emperor was bad? Wait till you meet the Empress!

 

Oh I agree with that, it's one of the reasons I'm always iffy on Viatate because he just seems like ...Palpatine but before Palpatine...I mean sure different motives maybe and personality ...but still his archatype is ...Palpatine before Palpatine...I mean he's the Sith EMPEROR ....even in the name they call him EMPEROR.

It's why i'm curious what type of archetype they'll use for when a Old Republic film and or story is told for the Sith Lord...Go more the Vader/Malgus fright line warlord type perhaps as the big bad.

 

What are you referring to?

 

I think he's mentioning the fact how in Legends Viatate and the Ancient Spirits didn't see eye to eye.

Meaning the Ancient Spirits of Sith Evil hated Viatates guts.

 

Yub, given they crowned their own Sith while Vitiate was around... then again, those spirits may be fake and Vitiate pretended to be them... or... Sith who normally do not do ghosting unless tied to something, means those Sith spirits were part of the Force itself and the Force crowned anti-Vitiate Sith Lords to ruin his mood and day via Ulic Quel Droma and Exar Kun. Darkness rises, and Light to meet it... or rather, Vitiate rose, and to counter him, the Force did not send a light side champion but chose two dark ones that would rile the galaxy up and prepare it for war so it would arm itself ahead of time when Vitiate was not ready to take it yet. When he was, the galaxy had seen wars and was armed to the teeth so he could not strike. Heck the galaxy even had Revan come after him. All would not have happened without Kun and Quel Droma as Dark Lords instead of Light Champions.

 

Some ideas they could have done:

- Ragnos, Sadow, and Kressh overthrew the human Dark Lord Vitiate some time before TOTJ, and Vitiate and his fellow “Jedi Exile Purebloods” then went into hiding until TOR.

- Vitiate is Xendor, who was pulling the strings all those millenia.

- The Sith species isn’t actually native to Korriban, but rather was colonized by Vitiate’s Empire in ancient times.

Whatever the case, it was missed opportunity not to make Vitiate the Dark Lord who said, “He is ready, Nadd” and tattooed Kun and Ulic.

 

I wish they just made Vitate Ragnos only because Ragnos seemed like a really cool character who never got that fleshed out.