Lit Sith Lords warned not to 'stray to the Light Side of the Force'

This might sound very silly but I came to thinking whilst Jedi are more or less advised to avoid Love, Jealousy, Emotional Attachment, Power, Strong Emotions or using certain Force Powers - well like Sith Lightning, Force Rage, Force Scream, Force Crush to name a few or even the aspects of Form VII Juyo and Vaapad as it 'brings them dangerously close to the Dark Side' or can corrupt them to the Dark Side what about the opposite for the Sith? That is have there been doctrines or such that the Sith Masters and Sith Lords telling their Sith Apprentices not to do that is in contrast to the Jedi for 'fear of being drawn to the Light Side of the Force' or rather 'it will dangerously guide you to the Light Side' given it was stated whilst Raw Emotions are important but Sith Lords also emphasized that you must control and harness this otherwise Raw Emotions - Anger by foremost would be utterly useless if you don't know how to use it - and how Count Dooku at times 'taunted' and admonished some like Asajj Ventress, Sora Bulq and Anakin how they do not know how to properly harness the Dark Side - or rather Anger and Fear to their advantage via Dun Moch ... but point being have Sith Lords or Dark Side Force users warned their fellow learners the dangers of 'being close to the Light Side of the Force?' I mean well - there was Darth Sion for instance he needed to always focus on eternal rage and pain to keep himself alive and retaining 'immortality' yet when he met the Jedi Exile he was conflicted by his 'love' for her and that was dangerous because it threatened his nature ... and some Sith were told to avoid 'love' as it can lose your focus and concentration on the Dark Side ... but any ideas?

 

Darth Gravid is a notable example - cited as a warning, by Darth Plagueis to his apprentice:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Gravid

 

Hello again! Ah - must appreciated - fair enough That actually then also answers a lingering thought in my mind where I also came to wondering if there were Sith Lords who started as Sith Lords from the start and later converted to the Light Side of the Force or attempted to ...

 

TOR's Scourge might qualify - born and raised among the Sith - turned against them and aided the Republic:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Scourge_(Sith)

Also Fate of the Jedi's Vestara Khai - though her "conversion to the light side" lasted only days or so.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vestara_Khai

 

Hello again! Yup - just had a look meself at the links - it seems these examples - they needed either to be 'horrified' at what their Sith Masters had done or for the matter encountered a Jedi and helped them ...

Would you say though - on a side note again - of the Sith - only practically Palpatine, Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd, Darth Krayt, Darth Anddedu, Darth Nihilus to name a few were 'beyond redemption'? Or only Palpatine for the matter given Palpatine was just absolutely remorseless and how in the EU he returned from his first death on the Death Star II ... and how Palpatine - consider for the Sith Lord and the Galactic Emperor - who murdered his own family (with some goading from Darth Plagueis) at 17 years old ... and with no remorse onwards ... and how he was cast into the depths of the Force ... and how he was cursing the Skywalker line as 'Fools! I shall return! You know nothing of the Dark Side of the Force!'

 

In one of the Young Jedi Knights books (set about 10 years after the death of the Palpatine clone in Empire's End) Luke says

"No-one is completely evil. Or completely good. At least no-one I've ever met."

Later works, however, have him thinking "the only completely evil/irredeemable being I've met was Palpatine".

 

Since the dark side is described as easier and more seductive, it's probably very uncommon for darksiders to be wary of the light. Listen to Palpatine:

- If one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic, narrow view of the Jedi. If you wish to become a complete and wise leader, you must embrace a larger view of the Force.

It is often said that darkness is absence of light, but in the case of the Force, it would seem that some, at least, believe the opposite: "light side" is just the absence of the dark side.
...which makes sense in a way, since the dark side is about embracing and acting on ones passions and desires. Reptilian brain, the law of the jungle and all of that.
Being compassionate doesn't really negate that - unless you become compassionate towards everything...

Hm, come to think of it, compassion would probably be discouraged among the Sith.

 

Considering Palpatine murdered his own family (Darth Plagueis Novel - EU), engineered the Clone Wars and leading to Order 66 plus mass murder on a Global if not Galactic Scale, killed off those whom were 'no longer useful to him', broke off promises, betrayed many - so probably even loyal ones, didn't give a 'Force' about anyone but himself in the end, cruelly tortured and used violence to get what he wanted or to make a point ... and the fact incredibly immersed and concentrated in the Dark Side - to the point in the EU how he attempted to possess baby Anakin Solo ... had it not been for Brand's intervention and sacrifice ...

 

Well - Qui-Gon Jinn when he explained the importance of 'true immortality' and the essence of being able to retain one's presence in the Force was rather of eternal compassion and something of a Power the Sith will never achieve because Sith are too selfish and greed-motivated to achieve any immortality - and the fact whilst Sith can still achieve immortality - they do so via violent and very very painful means (looking at Darth Sion, Darth Anddedu, Palpatine - via the EU Essence Transfer and how physically scarred and ravaged he was in even a fresh clone body, Darth Plagueis - via the painful Maladian Assassin's attack which cost him his lower jaws and it took time for him to recover...)

And Darth Plagueis made it clear in the novel to Palpatine when he was teaching him how to apply Sith Lightning that the aspect of Sith Lightning was like the Dark Side of the Force as a beast needing to be tamed and used properly to unleash its full potential and that if a Sith wishes to really amplify and apply Sith Lightning - and a reason why Sith Lords obtained power via the Dark Side in particular was because 'the Sith reject Compassion and accept Consequence...' so the fact Compassion would have been a big No-No for the Sith just as it would be strongly encouraged by the Jedi and how Anakin to a correct point of view for the most part remarked 'Jedi use their powers for good. They care about others...' which is true to a strong extent whilst the Sith - well one way or another you can expect one to betray one another and putting the supposed Rule of Two Baneite system - in one way or another - Sith are always gonna be violent and angry and however 'civilized' in the generations of Sith - its always gonna involve violence and cruel painful training ... and killing - in particular the Rule of Two - where the Apprentice must kill the Master as part of the Darth Mantle tradition, to gain power and knowledge ... and something the Jedi would never tolerate or approve - given you might as well have Master Yoda remark to a freshly recruited group of Jedi Initiates and Younglings 'Compassion Reject You Will Today ... For Kill Me You Must!'

 

The Sith don't mention the light side itself in the movies, but they're certainly wary of Jedi notions. What they are truly concerned with is weakness and not being weak, because that's when you get killed. The Sith equate compassion, temperance, and love with weakness. In the Lords of the Sith excerpt, Vader even explains how once a master grows weak the apprentice owes him no more loyalty - it is then almost a duty to dispose of him, to cull the weak from the chain of the strong.

"Do what must be done, Lord Vader. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy."
"Only your hatred can destroy me."
"Strike me down with all of your hatred, and your journey towards the Dark Side will be complete.

The Sith don't despise the Jedi because they use the light side, they dispise them because of their weakness.

 

You know - this is slightly unrelated but with the 'Do what must be done...' being one of Palpatine's biggest catchphrases and the 'Show no mercy'... in the Darth Plagueis Novel - and in the EU for the matter - Darth Plagueis when Palpatine was desperate to get rid of his father and family - Darth Plagueis 'goaded' Palpatine into doing so and he did say something similar to 'Do what must be done...' developmental coincidence?

 

I think that's true, and when it comes to the apprentices of Sidious, they all have at least a glimmer of the light side - Vader, Maul, and Dooku all showed a light side trait or weakness as the Sith would put it. Only Sidious was pure uncompromising evil.

 

I particularly like Kel'eth Ur, because he discovered the lightside on his own rather than being redeemed by jedi, and how much Sith feared his teachings.


http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kel'eth_Ur


I also remember reading somewhere that the Sith strongly discourage romantic attachments as well as the jedi, for fear that it might lead to compassion and make the Sith weak.

 

"Want everything you wish, hunger, burn for it, if that fuels you. But never love anyone or anything so much that you cannot bear to lose it."
(Lady Rhea, Lost Tribe of the Sith)

 

Actually, while Scourge did turn against the Empire, he was still Sith, and I'm not talking species. He has one specific line that indicates as much.

"I will always be Sith. But that does not mean we cannot work together."

He also has lines indicating that he thinks that the Hero of Tython would be stronger using the dark side, and that he "understand why the Jedi Council controls you. What I will never understand is why you let them." These lines and others suggest that despite working for the good guys, Scourge is still definitively on the dark side.

 

Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.

Nobody is beyond redemption, but you have to make the choice to change your ways (and the strenght to make it through). As Yoda said in Dark Rendevous to Dooku "Each instance the universe annihilates itself and starts again. Choose and start again."

 

It is, but look at the scene where Sidious finds Vader on Mustafar, he does seem slightly compassionate towards his mutilated apprentice.

Which would make sense, given they've known each other for years already. Sidious just doesn't let compassion get the better of his plans. Or maybe letting Vader live was a mistake, since it eventually lead to his death.

 

It's interesting to see the adult and junior novelization versions of the same scene - adult one emphasises "tender" - in the junior one, not so much:

Adult ROTS novelization (Matt Stover)

A Naboo skiff reverted to realspace and flashed toward an alien medical installation in the asteroid belt of Polis Massa.
Tantive IV reentered reality only moments behind.
And on Mustafar, below the red thunder of a volcano, a Sith Lord had already snatched from sand of black glass the charred torso and head of what once had been a man, and had already leapt for the cliffbank above with effortless strength, and had already roared to his clones to bring the medical capsule immediately!
The Sith Lord lowered the limbless man tenderly to the cool ground above, and laid his hand across the cracked and blackened mess that once had been his brow, and he set his will upon him.
Live, Lord Vader. Live, my apprentice. Live.

Junior ROTS novelization (Patricia C. Wrede):

As the Imperial shuttle closed its wings and settled on the topmost landing platform, Darth Sidious saw a small starship fleeing from Mustafar. But he could not order the shuttle into pursuit—the uneasy urgency was stronger than ever, and it was tied to the planet, not the ship.
The clone troopers disembarked first, fanning out through the quiet building to make sure nothing would endanger their Emperor. They found only bodies. Then, as Darth Sidious inspected the control room, one of the troopers came in through an exterior door.
"There's something out here," he reported.
That's it. As quickly as he could, Darth Sidious followed the troopers outside, onto the black sand banks of the lava river. No, it can't be!
But it was. His promising new apprentice, who was to be the greatest Sith who'd ever lived—maimed and burned, perhaps dead. Darth Sidious ground his teeth in frustrated anger. Part of him wanted to turn on his heel and leave what was left of Darth Vader to burn to ashes in the rising lava. Even if he was alive, even if he could be saved, Vader would be crippled.
And not just with his mechanical limbs. The Force—dark side as well as light—was generated by living beings, and it took living flesh to manipulate it. Darth Vader would never be able to cast blue Force lightning; that required living hands, not metal ones. And with so much of his body replaced by machinery, he would never come close to the potential he'd had.
It was a great pity, Darth Sidious thought, controlling his anger, but perhaps not irreparable. Even diminished, Darth Vader would still be very strong, and there were no Jedi left to challenge him. Darth Sidious had seen to that himself. So he kept walking until he could bend over the body. And to his surprise, his apprentice was still alive.
Relief swept his doubts away. "Get a medical capsule immediately," Darth Sidious commanded, and clones ran off to do his bidding. Leaning down, he placed a hand on Darth Vader's forehead, using the dark side to keep him alive.

 

Anakin's weakness is greed. Palpatine's is compassion

 

Movies alone, Sith focus only on the negative energies/feelings/thoughts/emotions, which was something Anakin started doing early in AOTC. The Jedi focus on the positive . A Jedi's strength flows through basically passiveness and peace while a Sith's through personal pain or the pain of others, aggression & anger. Could be only thing holding together and keeping Vader alive was his constant state of pain, anger & hate which in turn fueled the darkside, but once Vader let go of his hate, he would find peace and die. The movies arent particularly clear but do lead one to this conclusion. Vader taking Sith Lightning to his head surely helped guide along to die and Luke removing the mask - which also appears like Vader found happiness and was ready to move on. Sith we're told hold on to the physical realm, but Palpatine states in ROTS the Jedi and Sith are alike in nearly way including their pursuit for greater power and immortality. You can really go by the Jedi or Sith alone, as both orders are rivals and each believing their way is the only way, someone like Sidious would not think himself evil but he is clearly. Then you throw in the will of the Force, where its really just a greater power in charge and overseeing this galactic arena, watching the light and the dark battle it out, each side constantly brought to near extinction or so it is thought as they never seem capable of actually ever fully eliminating one another. Plus their is other Force Wielders out there with a different interpretation but Lucas has the Jedi and Sith, perhaps outve simplification or because they're the two primes - although Sith started off as Jedi which would imply there was no schism with the Force at some point, everything was light and good. Did some ancient Devil-like creature corrupt a Jedi into becoming a Sith and this person would go onto to corrupt others into becoming Sith Knights. Can the Sith and Jedi eventually learn to live in peace with one another, would this war between the two that has lasted thousands of years ever end?!

Palpatine describes his mentor oddly(in the movie there is no direct connection to Plagueis), as basically some unknown person who taught him the nature of the Force, which comes off as he taught him both the Jedi or lightside way and the way of the darkside/Sith way. Where Palpatine had an understanding of both, but eventually he chose the darkside in his pursuit to rule the galaxy. He also speaks of the Darth Plagueis as if some old legend, which can be interpreted as Palpatine hinting that he was the apprentice or gasing up Anakin's head attempting to sway and tempt him over with this under the table talk and that perhaps even the Jedi(as in Council) would know but not teach non council Jedi Master members. As they're privy to secret knowledge kept from other Jedi Knights. stuff not taught - which also seems how Dooku eventually fell in, in AOTC he wants what Anakin wanted, greater power and be more powerful than any living Jedi Master.

The Clone Wars we just saw Lucas creating more questions rather than really answering them. Was like an exploration of the great mystery which had more than one face. But the one constant was good triumphing over evil, from a personal level to a broader galactic scale.

Maul kept himself alive driven by a singular focus supposedly from what we're told, that this was part of his training while Sidious was surprised and impressed that Maul accomplished such a feat, that it was possible even, this same expression again seen when he salvaged Vader on Mustafar. But if he let go of the darkside, would he die like Vader?! Is there only just the Force(one God) and neither Light nor Dark, but just what a person acts up that defines them. Lots of questions which seems more their concern rather than actually resolving the great mystery. There is perhaps many paths to the Force but there is right and wrong, and maybe even the Jedi and Sith have a primitive understanding of the The Force. And why they're destined to kill eachother all the time, neither side learning and both could be in the wrong by straying to far the source.

 

I've just been reading Paul Kemp's 'Deceived' set in the Old Republic Era. In this story, the main Sith we follow seems to Darth Malgus who has a Twi'lek female he cares for. This is regarded as a major weakness by the other Sith. He tries to hide his feelings from them, saying she is simply a slave who satisfies his needs when he requires it but they know she is not. He has real feelings for her and they are like sharks around an injured swimmer because of it. So, I think the Sith did 'teach' about keeping away from love, in the Old Republic Era, especially the kind of love which cares for the other above oneself but their 'teaching' is through attempting to harm and destroy other Sith who have these feelings than through having information which they pass on.

 

Then again - let's see - Anakin - well ofc given the fact how he didn't 'start off as a Sith' and he did care for those he loved and cared about ... Count Dooku - well he was once a Jedi for the matter and the fact how he made references at times in the Clone Wars and AOTC on his days back in the Jedi Order so ... and he must have once had a history with Master Yoda no doubt given Master Yoda did remark how Count Dooku was afterall once Master Yoda's own student ... and Darth Maul - well he was taken - or rather given by his mother to Palpatine 'to have a better life...' and Darth Maul - he did care for Savage Oppress and he was upset when Savage Oppress was Trollinated and killed by Palpatine ...

And now that you mention it - I can just imagine then a Sith Lord telling his/her Sith Apprentice something like 'Love Leads to Self-Sacrifice... Self Sacrifice Leads to Compassion ... Compassion Leads to Mercy ... Mercy Leads to Weakness ... Weakness is in the Light Side of the Force...'

But then again - some Sith like Palpatine and in particular - ironically Darth Nihilus - they didn't 'give a Force' about anything at all - other than increasing Power above all ... particularly Darth Nihilus who was a Sith Lord but the fact he was a Wound in the Force and he didn't 'give a Force' about the Sith - he only cared about satisfying and gaining more Power...