PT So, how good was Qui-Gon really?

Qui-Gon was a very likable character and one whose philosophical outlook is appreciated by many. He also appeared wise and considerate. Adding to that, he was portrayed brilliantly by Liam Neeson, who in all honesty was one of the more memorable actors from the prequels. But, how good at duelling was he really?

In TPM we get to see him duel twice, and let's face it; results matter. He held his own for quite some time against a formidable opponent in Maul, but eventually lost to him. QG's technique is very nice to look at, and he looks physically strong. But, was he somewhat too slow for someone like Maul?

I don't know much EU, but how was he portrayed here? Also, was he as good a duellist as OBW, or did his padawan surpass him?

Any thoughts, how good as a fighter / duellist was Qui-Gon?

 

A very good one.

 

I'd venture that he was a very good duelist, but probably not as good as his apprentice (even at the time of TPM), and certainly not anywhere near as good as Mace and Yoda. ROTJ Luke was probably significantly ahead of him in dueling skill as well.

I think with Qui-Gon, dueling is not his forte. He's more of a philosopher who likes to push the envelope in Jedi teachings.

 

I concur. He was more into philosophy than fighting. He could handle himself well in a fight when it came down to it, however sadly he happened to be fighting a Sith who wasn't afraid to cheat. <re: Maul stunning Qui-Gon>

 

I wouldn't call Maul's stun move cheating. A little dirty perhaps, but anything goes in a duel to the death... On second thought, if he had thrown sand in his eyes or kicked him in the nads, then maybe I would agree that it was cheating.

 

Thanks, that actually got me to laugh out loud at my desk!

IIRC, the novelization of TPM talked about the tri-duel and Qui-Gon being quite the warrior, but he was just over his peak as a warrior and was just plain worn down by Maul's speed and technique, to where he made a minor slip in his defenses that allowed Maul the advantage/stun and kill.

 

See, I don't get the whole "being over the peak as a warrior" concept. Yoda is what, 850 years and Dooku is in his eighties, and they are amongst the best duellers in the Saga. Qui-Gon was in his 50s (?), and as such shouldn't be over the peak at all.

I do buy the idea of him being more a philosopher than the warrior though. But if we assume this is so, shouldn't he have wisened up and asked Mace or Yoda to accompany him and face the Sith threat?

 

I don't think either he or Obi-Wan banked on being separated from each other and one of them having to face the Sith alone. Two Jedi - one a skillful young duelist and the other merely a competent duelist - could be capable of taking on a Sith and winning.

Maul expertly separates Obi-Wan from the main duel on the catwalks. He forces him onto a lower catwalk and, from that point onwards, Obi-Wan is trying to catch up to them right up until after Maul dispatches Qui-Gon.

 

To me Qui-Gon has reached the status of Boba Fett. Both saw limited time on screen. Both saw action & fighting. Both died on screen without being as well known as other characters. But, the fan base love characters like this.

 

I don't think Qui-Gon got limited time on screen. He was a main character in one movie.

 

Better than battle droids, an even match for destroyers and outmatched by Darth Maul.

/thread

 

Passable with a lightsabre. A pretty good philosopher.

 

We have to take in consideration that the Jedi never faced a lightsaber wielding opponent for quite some time. And just because Qui-Gon died, it doesn't mean he was a "not so good" duelist or fighter.

 

I agree, but then he, as portrayed as a wise Jedi, should have had the foresight to have asked more or stronger Jedi to accompany them to Naboo. It's ludicrous to think that Mace didn't accompany them!

There is one thing though - QG were on a mission to discover the identity of Maul, and hence wasn't all out to kill him. Could that have impaired his chances of winning the duel also?

 

This. Age matters not, in the GFFA. TOR Emperor is over a thousand years old and still trying to rule the entire universe. Dooku owned Anakin AND Kenobi in AOTC. Sidious owned three out of four Jedi at once....

The age argument is baseless IMHO.


Good thread Rossa!

 

Couldn't agree more with you Slayer. But why the heck was QG panting like me after running 40 yards after fighting Maul ever so briefly in the desert, whereas Yoda wasn't affected at all after fighting Dooku in AOTC?

Would QG have stood a chance against Maul had he gone for kill and not trying to capture him? Or, was he arrogant when going after for him, when what he should have been doing was to wait for OBW. Maul wasn't going anywhere...

 

The difference lies in the weapon, Jinn had to parry twice as many strikes when he faced Maul alone. The saber staff is like a press defense with a half-court trap in basketball, if you don't execute perfectly, and aren't used to seeing it...its hard to overcome. Jinn was unable to withstand the barage. If Kenobi hadnt broken Maul's weapon by plot convenience, he would have died in the same manner as his master...

 

Well they were fighting in the desert, where it was hot, that would probably sap your energy pretty quick

 

Qui-Gon was a very good duelist. And don't forget, he gave Maul a pretty hard time. The only way Maul was able to defeat him was by using a "Tricky Dick" move. But I have yet to come across a duelist in the Saga who was unbeatable or infallible. Some of the characters have won by luck or their opponent's personal flaws.

 

Not as good as I'd hoped. I am sorely disappointed that he didn't talk to Obi Wan during his duel with Anakin. This is the scene of Anakin's disfiguration as I imagine it: Anakin is cut off at the knees and is spewing hate at Obi Wan. Obi Wan raises his light saber for a mercy killing. At that moment Qui-Gon says "He IS the Chosen One."

This would have really completed a circle in the films and given Qui-gon a whole lot more importance.

 

It would have made parts of the OT pointless. If Qui-Gon tells Obi-Wan something like that, then why would Obi-Wan have to bother training Luke in the first place? He could just go "Well, he is the Chosen One so I'll just enjoy my Tatooine retirement hut." Also, Qui-Gon is a Force Ghost, not an all knowing Force God, he doesn't suddenly have access to everything that is going to happen in the future just because he become a Force Ghost.

 

I dunno. If you look up Wookieepedia it will tell you that 9/10th of all Jedi are "especially gifted with the lightsaber" and other such praises. So I don't take that too seriously. I think Qui-Gon was a decent lightsaber fighter. Not good, just decent.

The best lightsaber duelists should be those who center their life around it. Mace Windu who introduced a new form or Maul because of his insane focus on improving his skills.

Skill comes from training, training and training and you can't train everything at once. You have to set priorities.

 

How can you disregard what the EU says about Qui-Gon and then use the EU as a basis of your argument? Mace introduced a new form of lightsaber combat because the EU says so, Maul was more focused on saber combat than force powers because the EU says so, and Qui-Gon was a great duelist because the EU says so. If you are going to ignore the latter, you might aswell ignore everything else.

 

Yes, you are right. But how am I supposed to take it seriously when all entrances about Jedi recite exactly the same, them being especially good with a lightsaber? How can they be especially gifted when seemingly everyone and their mother is equally "especially gifted"? It is illogical. There's fact and there's hyperbole.

Even leaving the EU besides Maul and Windu both showed great prowess in the movies. Mace defeating Palpatine which Yoda couldn't and Maul going against two Jedi and using an unique, never before seen weapon.