So how powerful was Jabba really?

ok,
I am big fan of the EU, mainly the stuff about characters from the OT. However, an interesting thing happens in the EU, any character shown onscreen (especially named characters) become larger than life in the EU.

Here are a few examples. These aren't meant to offend anyone:

1) Biggs. In the movies we never really Biggs do ANYTHING extraordinary. In fact, he even fails to come to Luke's aid when needed.

2) Wedge. Now Wedge is different. He is clearly shown to have amazing flight skills throughout the entire OT. However, in the EU, Wedge is a juggernaut. He is shown to be a master general and tactician as well as pilot. The movies really only show Wedge to be a pilot, all the rest is pure EU.

3) Boba Fett. Yes, I am questioning Boba Fett. In ESB, Fett really doesn't do much. He comes up with the idea of hiding in the trash and then tracks the Falcon to Bespin. That's really it. It's Vader and his men that capture Han. In ROTJ, Fett gets absolutely tooled by Luke and a blind Han. In the EU, Fett is a GOD. His mere name brings men to their knees. The problem is, none of this great talent is really shown in the movies, its all EU. Meanwhile, in EpII, Jango is shown to be ALL that we would expect him to be. He goes toe to toe with a Jedi. I'm sure he would have been disappointed that his son was killed by a blind guy doing a 3 stooges routine with a staff.

4) Jansen. Like Wedge and Biggs, a simple speeder gunner becomes a god in the EU. He hits the ATAT with the tow cable, big deal. Its not like its hard to shoot at something that big. His EU persona is way way way bigger than anything we see onscreen.

The list can go on and on.....

So all of this just goes to my main question, how powerful was Jabba. I am not asking for some crazy EU explanation. According to the EU, Jabba is the most powerful Hutt. No explanation is given. Let's be honest, the EU says Jabba is the most powerful NOT because of what we saw onscreen, but ONLY because he is the ONLY NAMED Hutt shown in the OT.

So how powerful was Jabba? By the time of ROTJ, the Rebellion was an army. The term "rebel" didn't do them justice. I think that the Rebel's could easily have taken on Jabba and his men. There is nothing shown ONSCREEN to imply the Rebel's couldn't do it. Heck, even a lone Y wing in orbit could have leveled Jabba's palace and sail barge. The only explanation I can up with for why the Rebels simply didn't destroy Jabba and rescue Han is that Luke asked them for the opportunity to do it "his way." He was training to be a Jedi and he wouldn't want to carelessly destroy life. He thought he could use his Jedi powers of persuasion to reach a peaceful solution.

ok so that sort of explains the Rebel's take on Jabba. Now for another Jabba issue, Jabba and the Imperials.

I just don't see any reason for Jabba to be as feared as he was. The Imperials clearly hate smugglers. The Imperials clearly like order. Why allow someone like Jabba to exist? The only explanation I have is that Jabba is really just a small time crook on a useless planet. If Jabba is even half as powerful as he is claimed to be, then the Imperials would be VERY aware of him. They would not have stood for giant slugs ruling entire planets.

According to the EU, the Hutts are far more powerful than the rebellion was at the time. Why was the Emperor spending so many resources on the Rebellion and leaving the OBVIOUS and KNOWN Hutts alone?

The answers:
1) the Hutts are not powerful. They are basically gangsters. they control small cities on outer rim planets, that's it. They don't control fleets. They are nothing to the Imperials. they are not important. Consider the scope of the fleet we see around the ROTJ Death Star. Then think about Jabba's sail barge. Jabbs is nothing. Jabba is an ant. Jabba is a nobody. Jabba a slug that protects himself with axe caring guards in a world were everyone is armed with blasters.

All of this only leads to one "real" answer: the only reason we see Jabba is because Lucas wanted a gangster scene.

 

Well, The Phantom Menace seems to imply that Jabba is a very powerful Hutt who likely controls all of Tatooine. We hear about other Hutts, such as Gardulla, holding slave contracts, but then we see Jabba at the swoop race and he's basically worshiped by the two announcers. The indication would be that he is some sort of grand Hutt with control over the entire planet.

 

few things,

1) OT came out before TPM. So we can retcon that Jabba did in fact rule the planet. I'll agree with that.

2) If that is true. Then wouldn't he be even more on the Imperial's radar? In ESB, Vader is on a quest to find Luke Skywalker. He has send probe droids all over the galaxy. Most likely he has also made inquiries all over. If the Hutt's in fact ruled Luke's home planet, then surely Jabba would have known about Vader's quest to find Luke. So then on that assumption, Jabba is being EXTREMELY brash in ordering Luke's execution.

Its sort of like the Imperials let Jabba operate long as he doesn't get in the way. By executing Luke, Jabba would have signed his own death sentence.

 

Well, duh...we knew that from the ROTJ's opening crawl.

You really can't extrapolate how powerful Jabba was from ROTJ. He was basically just a guy that wanted restitution for a poor smuggling job. Of course, we DO know from ROTJ that Jabba was extremely wealthy. He had his own fortress with lots of employees, and he paid a pretty significant ransom for Han, plus he was willing to pay a big ransom for Chewie. Unless you win the lottery, wealth and power go hand in hand. Now, I'll admit that I don't know all the details involved in running an interplanetary smuggling operation, but I imagine that he would have to have some kind of power to pull it off.

I think the EU has to make characters more powerful or more interesting than they really are, or else there wouldn't be much substance to any of the EU books. Nobody wants to read a story about an insignificant peon that controls a glorified sand dune, they want to read stories about the mighty Lord Jabba the Hutt, king of all interplantery smugglers...

 

Vader's search for Luke likely wasn't something he wanted everyone to know about, especially a Hutt. Hutts could easily manipulate something by capturing someone, in this case Luke, and holding him for ransom or whatever. They're very bold, and I doubt they'd bow down even to the Empire. While I doubt Vader would've told Jabba, even if he did I don't think Jabba would've cared. He was too arrogant and overconfident.

 

Boba Fett was told by Vader than Han on Bespin was bait for Skywalker. Boba Fett would clearly have told Jabba the importance of Luke to Vader.

Hutts are supposedly very intelligent. So the genius Jabba KNOWS the value of Luke and still decides to execute him? He'd have to know the heat Vader would bring down on him. Jabba is alive to see the events of TPM, AOTC, ROTS, ANH, ESB and he would know the power of the Empire.

So the only explanations are:
1) Jabba is extremely brash and overconfident.
2) Jabba is dumb. ding ding ding we have the answer! Jabba is a nothing. His "palace" is a garage dug into the sand. He has no idea of the power of the Empire. Jabba is NOTHING. Tatooine is nothing! Jabba does not control a "network" of smugglers. Jabba does not control a planet. Jabba does not have a fleet. Jabba is a small time crook that has carved out a niche.

 

Based on Jabba's portrayal, I would lean towards the former, that he was overconfident.

 

Just to point something out-the Empire is not a rational, law-and-order Earth dictatorship. It's an entity that solely exists to bring power to the Emperor, who defines that power as the Dark Side growing stronger. Fear and so on does that, and as plenty of people are presumably afraid of or dead because of Jabba, his continued existence actually brings further power to the Emperor.

That's why Jabba isn't on the to-do list. He's content with the state of the galaxy and his continued existence brings power to the Emperor, both in terms of the Force and (maybe) as a strawman threat to justify increasingly draconian laws.

 

so are you saying that the empire lets a certain amount of criminal activity exist so that the public will depend on the government?

I can see that. That's a good explanation.

 

Absolutely. I mean, when you consider that the Empire was founded on what was basically an artificially-induced conflict with the Clone Wars, it's not like creating phantom threats is anything new to Palpatine.

Plus he was privately buddy-buddy with the most powerful criminal in the galaxy-Prince Xizor, of Black Sun.

 

That, and I'm sure Jabba paid all the right bribes to the local Imps and Regional Governer. In an Empire as vast as this one, graft would be very widespread. It's also quite realistic to believe Jabba had one or several Senators in his pocket, prior to the dissolution of the Senate anyway, which would've given him politcal pull. His organization may have had several "legitimate" business that paid Imperial taxes. All of this wrapped together would've made it easy for Jabba to exist in the Empire, if Palpatine is aware of Jabba at all.

 

I like to think of Jabba as a big fish in a small pond. Sort of your local gangster. He could obviously hurt people and impose his will on those weaker than him, but his whole existence kind of relies on the police turning a blind eye to his operation.

I find the whole EU idea of the Hutts as a powerful race of gangster slugs to be extremely limited in imagination.

 

How is that eu? Lucas came up with the idea and presented it in the films?

 

But once again the EU made the whole species gangsters, instead of just every Hutt Jabba knows.

With the notable exception of the Hutt Chancellor of the Old Republic

 

So how powerful was Jabba really?

At least as powerful as his anger with Han Solo.

 

I think the fact he runs Tatooine makes him pretty powerful. He controled everything on that planet until his death.

 

Why was the Emperor spending so many resources on the Rebellion and leaving the OBVIOUS and KNOWN Hutts alone?

The Emperor probably would have thought Hutts, and other gangster types, could be useful to him sometime in the future. Thinking along the lines of Gui-Gon :

QUI-GON : ... Greed can be a powerful ally.. if it's used properly.