Lit So, the Kwa created the Jedi, and the Gree created Coruscant...

In Dawn of the Jedi, we now know that the Kwa created the Tho Yor that spread to different planets througout the galaxy, hibernating for generations, then calling Force-sensitives to them, taking off, gathering more Force-sensitives across the galaxy, and then bringing them and releasing them all on Tython.

In The Old Republic, we learn that the Gree were responsible for the original construction of Coruscant... although I don't think it's stated if this happened at the birth of the Republic, or prior to it.

In Fate of the Jedi and other sources, we learned that the Kwa and Gree were at war with each other in the centuries (millennia?) before the Rakata Infinite Empire came about. They also seem to have been under the direction of the Celestials, or the Ones, or Abeloth, it's kind of unclear.


For reference..


GREE


KWA



So, these are the pieces of the puzzle... let's try to put it together. What exactly was going on between the Gree and the Kwa? What role did they play in putting together the Jedi and the Republic, and why? How were the Celestials/Ones/Abeloth/Rakata/Killiks involved in all this, and weren''t the Hutts active back then too? (and I bet the Ssi-Ruuk were a Rakata experiment, they're so similar)

I'm particularly interested in, even though the Gree and Kwa were on opposite sides in some ancient war, their apparent creations (the Jedi and possibly the Republic or at least Coruscant) have been allied together for most of their 25,000-year histories... interesting, isn't it? Coruscant and Tython are basically polar opposites, too... and the Kwa returned to nature and primitive living, while the Gree secluded themselves with all their technology...

(and this is complete speculation... but with the Kwa possibly being extragalactic, and the Silentium said be created from a squid-like species, and the Yuuzhan Vong galaxy being the closest galaxy... and both Kwa and Gree having similar teleportation-based transportation infrastructure [which also makes me wonder if the Aing-Tii were involved]... I wonder if the Silentium came from a Gree colony in the YV galaxy that was wiped out, and perhaps the Abominor were an experiment of the Kwa that run amok and convinced them to reject technology and return to more natural living? With the Silentium-Abominor War being responsible for the Yuuzhan Vong.)

 

I just finished the Coruscant levels of TOR as a Jedi Consular, and a Republic Senator (Oranda?) says the Gree originally built Coruscant so they're helping with infrastructure repairs after the Sith attack.

Wookieepedia article on her:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Oranda

Oranda was a female Human Senator representing Agamar and the Lahara sector in the Galactic Republic during the Cold War with the resurgent Sith Empire. She was also in charge of restoring Coruscant's hydrosupply systems in the aftermath of the sacking of Coruscant.​

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A female Human politician, Oranda served in the Galactic Republic Senate around 3,643 BBY following the Great Galactic War and the resurgence of the Sith Empire. Part of the Cold War-era Senate, Oranda represented the interests of her people, working with the ambassador droids of the Gree Enclave during efforts to restore Coruscant's hydrosupply systems after the devastating attack by the Empire at the end of the Great War.​

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That is what I'm saying.

The Humans and Taungs were likely still the original inhabitants (maybe the Gree were there first, but probably not)... but if the Gree were responsible with it becoming a planetary city-planet (presumably during or shortly before the birth of the Republic)... that shows they were highly involved with Coruscant and the early Republic from the very beginning, and probably the other Core Worlds too. The Gree built Coruscant as-we-know-it, that's a pretty big revelation. It wouldn't be Coruscant without its infrastructure, and now we know that the people of Coruscant weren' even responsible for it, and still didn't even know how to fix it some 20,000 years later.

The question is... why? How else were they involved early on? It seems the Gree built Coruscant so it could handle being a galactic capital, that the Gree were planning on it becoming the new galactic capital...

And it's interesting that the Kwa, their enemies, designed the Tython system and are responsible for the Jedi Order... and how opposite Tython and Coruscant are... and the opposite fates of the Gree and the Kwa... yet the Republic and Jedi worked together for most of their history.

It feels like the creation of the Republic and the creation of the Jedi were moves in a cosmic game of chess, between the Kwa and the Gree... it's very interesting they were created by opposite sides. I wonder what they were trying to achieve...?

 

How many Dawn of the Jedi issues have been released already? I have eight, the last is Prisoner of Bogan #2, I haven't read it yet, is this were the Kwa are being mentioned?

 

Yeah, I also don't think we can say yet that the Kwa were the ones behind the Tho Yor, just by the brief scene with the holocron. I'm still banking on there being a Celestial/Ones connection, going by the Tho Yor design.

 

Perhaps. We should know soon enough. I just took it at the Holocron-keeper saying he was the last of the Kwa on Tython (we know the Kwa Holdings possessed many worlds and possibly some outside the galaxy).

Yes, it's in the most recent one. I think a new issue is about to come out soon too.

Well, from FOTJ, we learn that the Kwa and the Gree were the ones who built the Celestials/Ones' technology for them (along with the Killiks), since they didn't have physical bodies. And sometime, one or more groups may have fallen under the influence of Abeloth, and they went to war. Though the Killik's hivemind memory could be unreliable. Am I misremembering anything?

I don't remember the exact line, but I know Senator Oranda said the Gree were the ones who originally built Coruscant's infrastructure.

Yeah, the evolutionary interventionism is getting a bit much... but I'm just trying to make sense of it, from what we already know. It does seem that the Republic and the Jedi were created by opposite sides in some sort of cosmic game of chess between the Kwa and the Gree. I think it's interesting that this was not necessarily a game of good versus evil though, just between two very different and very alien cultures for reasons that may never be fully understood. And it's interesting that they seem to have been created by the opposite sides, not one side creating both of them.

 

I don't remember that scene exactly (after the second time I tend to tune out the Gree droids panicking about how dangerous Coruscant is for a lone droid), but it seemed more like the Gree were... how to put it, contractors? You have ancient humans and Taungs, and then as Coruscant built up more and more, sounds like the Gree got involved, but that's it, no grand plan or destiny or anything. Although even by the TOR era, the Gree are past their prime and don't know many of their ancestors' tech either.

We already have thousand of years of Jedi and Sith and their mystical artifacts lying around, and even before that, the Rakata are already enough for crazy almost magical tech anyway, and above even that are the Celestials and possibly the Mortis monolith. TOR has been using the Gree and their super-advanced tech too (the current event is all about the Gree, not that there is that much new info revealed or stuff, its just another excuse to kill more stuff... and convince players to engage in PVP), which is almost funny considering KotOR is what originally introduced the Rakata to the EU (I think?).

Sounds like the kwa probably gathered the future Jee'dai, but the Gree don't seem that pro-active. Its hard to tell what happened in the GFFA pre-history, and I'd prefer it be left unknown, it adds to the mystical sense. And often any answers we get usually aren't satisfactory. And we have yet to see how deeply the kwa were involved and their purpose for Tython. It could be interesting if there was a rivalry, but seems like most of them were swept aside by the Rakata eventually, and then after the Rakata fell, the Republic came about eventually.

 

I haven't seen the context of the Gree claim in SWTOR, but I think it would be rather stupid if they were responsible for turning Coruscant into a city planet single handedly. I can understand the Gree possibly helping early humans learn how to maintain a city planet, though I would prefer if humans invented or figured out something on their own every once and a while. I would also find it weird that Coruscant still depends on Gree tech in the Old Republic era considering there are more than a few other city-planets in existence. Also if the Gree were in contact with humanity from so early on, it makes even less sense to me that Coruscanti just stayed within their own system for 70,000 years.

I barley remember the Kwa appearance from Dawn of the Jedi, I have to go back and look at that one.

 

TOR is wisely very vague when it comes to all things Gree, even in the recent Gree event, so it's unclear precisely what they're saying about anything. I wouldn't jump to conclusions.

 

All this space god interventionism in the history of the GFFA irks me well enough, but what really gets me like nails on a chalkboard is the term "Je'daii". Gratuitous apostrophe, check. Superfluous to pronunciation "i" at the end, check. Some other nebulous third thing that annoys me about this relatively minor detail of the Jedi origin story.......I'll get back to you on that one, but I'm very confident in my ability to find one.

 

What is intresting is that the Gree did rule several planets for a while and there is an extensive Human slave population on Licha In which was created when Humans were trapped on the planet when the ancient Hypergates collapsed.

 

She's from Agamar. I'm sure all the other senators amuse themselves by getting her to believe ridiculous nonsense.

 

I don't think they said that the Gree made Coruscant but rather they created some critical infrastructure such as water, life support mechanisms etc etc. All these were damaged during the Sacking of Coruscant and Gree droids were dispatched to repair. On the Kwa, not sure about that yet. We only know that there is a Kwa holocron and that the gatekeeper is the last of the Tythonian Kwa. It could be he was acting on behalf of other masters even.... will have to wait and see the next issues of Dawn of the Jedi to find out the truth. Quite a bit of this stuff is in the ancient races topic where me and others talk about the various issues.

 

"Oyah!"

 

I doubt it - rimfolk have this thing called common sense, which seems to be lacking in the Core - even those who might posses it often turn it down for being common.

 

I wonder if we'll get any new insights about the Kwa in today's new comic...

 

Coruscant was covered by cityscape by 100,000 BBY. Wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for the Gree to do it, given the humans were mostly land-bound and had little chance to keep a planet-wide city up and running without external resources.

 

Is it specifically said the humans lacked spaceflight capabilities by then, or just hyperspace capabilities? Because there are plenty of resources in a single star system to sustain a city-planet.