First off, I want to just say that this thread isn’t meant to bash anyone who enjoys TCW. As a fan of the prequels, I know what it’s like to have fans blindly bash work I enjoy, and I don’t want to be someone who criticizes without explaining myself. But as far as Star Wars: TCW goes, I just can’t say I’m a fan, and I feel like I need to explain why. Anyway, here are some problems I have with the show: - The timeline- The show apparently starts two months after The Battle of Geonosis. This causes all sorts of clashes with the EU in Legends, but it doesn’t make much sense in New-Canon either. How can Anakin, who acts like a total brat at times in AOTC and who disobeys his Master repeatedly, suddenly become a Knight? Heck, how does he have decently long hair already? And why the heck would the council entrust him with a padawan just two months into the war anyway? I just can’t see the Jedi Council from the movies doing that. - Ahsoka. Now, I’m well aware that she has a sizable fan base, but I feel that her character is completely unnecessary and makes no sense. First off, she never appears or is mentioned at all in any of the films, which is odd considering she supposedly has a big impact. Second, she is far too overpowered imo, as she can take on characters like Grievous and Asajj Ventress and not get easily slaughtered. And finally, she takes focus away from Anakin, especially as the seasons go on, which in turn makes Anakin a static character, something he is NOT in the Legends EU. - The CIS barely wins. I feel like they pose almost no threat. Grievous in particular is a complete joke most of the time, and while I’m aware he is a coward and runs away a few times in ROTS, he still feels like he is much more formidable in that movie (also, the CIS IS on the run most of that movie). And I really hate what they did to his backstory. I feel like the Multimedia project did a much better job at making the CIS a threat. - It feels inconsistent with the films. I’ve aired my gripes about Anakin having an apprentice, but there are other problems I have with the consistency between TCW and the films. In ROTS, Anakin says “my powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count.” This was obviously intended to be a call back to their duel in AOTC. Yet, they face off several times in TCW. I know it’s technically not a contradiction, but it still feels extremely clumsy to me. Another issue for me is Obi-Wan and Grievous facing off as well. ROTS strongly implies (to me at least) that it’s their first encounter. Also, Obi-Wan and Anakin face off with Manga Guards several times in TCW. I’m aware that the ROTS novel isn’t part of the New Canon, but the movie implied to me it was at least Obi-Wan’s first time facing off with them, judging by his surprised reaction to the Magna Guard fighting with its head off. - Darth Maul coming back and his backstory being changed. I just really don’t like this at all, and it hurt Maul’s mystique for me. - Ditto for Asajj Ventress, I liked her backstory and fate much more in the original EU. Just a personal preference. - Barriss Offee. I liked her way more in the original Legends EU anyway, and I was never a fan of how they made her Ahsoka’s age (instead of Anakin’s, like it was originally). While I didn’t mind them becoming friends, I absolutely hated what they did with her in the Jedi Temple Bombing arc. It was completely out of character, and felt to me like the writers needed a character close to Ahsoka to betray her to create suspense. It felt like a cheap cop out to me. - Yoda’s visions on Dagobah. So he supposedly sees the destruction of the Jedi Order, yet accepts it and does nothing about it? Man, that’s lame. And it really waters down the impact of ROTS imo. - The Clone microchips. One of the absolute worst decisions made in the show imo, I just don’t get why they felt this was necessary, other than to make it seem like the clones had “no choice” or something. But... ROTS makes no mention of microchips, which you think it would if that was the original intention. Plus, there already was a previous explanation in AOTC: they were genetically altered to be obedient without question. That was good enough for me. Those aren’t my only criticisms of TCW, but those are some of my main problems. Personally, I feel like the multimedia project from 2002-2005 did a better job capturing the Clone Wars, making it feel progressive and keeping in line well with the films. I’d like to make a thread in the future about how I’d handle the EU in both legends and new canon. Once again I want to reiterate that these are my opinions and I’m not bashing anyone who enjoys TCW. I just wanted to open up about why I dislike it personally. I’m curious to see what other people think, whether they agree or disagree with my above points. Also, feel free to correct any mistakes I made, as it has been some time since I’ve seen TCW and I may have made an error (or more) in there somewhere.
I don't think Ahsoka ever could take on Grievous, she tried twice but barely survived either encounter. Especially in the 2nd encounter she just tried to protect the younglings, if she stayed behind against Grievous, it seemed she knew she'd die. The first time she was just cocky and reckless, but she was cornered still on both encounters. I think only very select few Jedi could actually handle Grievous for any length of time, but he was tricky and never fought fair.Like most of the villains, they often dumbed them down to make them lose whenever the plot called for it. Ahsoka was not in Ventress' class even on TCW. Still for whatever reason they made Ahsoka fight WAY outside her league and almost all of them, Ventress, Grievous, Maul and Vader. Surprised she never fought Dooku. Magnaguards were used a lot on TCW. They were overall a threat to the Jedi warriors, but their consistency like Grievous is a lil more dubious at times. The yellow emitter guards seemed somewhat better but were not used that much outside of protecting Dooku later on. Anakin was overwhelmed and largely defeated by the yellow Magnaguards on Naboo but they had some help from Dooku and he had some help from them. Still, they were a major threat to even skilled Jedi.
>How was Anakin promoted to a jedi knight at the start of the Clone Wars I think the show made it pretty clear that a lot of Padawans were rushed into knighthood pretty early on due to the clone wars. That's what happened with Kit's padawan, Nahdar Vebb. Yoda also thought that giving Anakin a padawn of his own(Ashoka) would give him more discipline, and I assume that would also require raising his rank. As for his hair, hair grows fast. >The CIS barely wins I can understand the hate with this but at the end of the day, the clone wars is a tv show for kids. Good guys win, bad guys lose. It's why team rocket has been blasting off at the end of every single pokemon episode for 10 years At least in the beginning of the show this was the case. By the end of the show I would say that the bad guys start winning more often than the good guys. >Darth Maul coming back and his backstory being changed. I just really don’t like this at all, and it hurt Maul’s mystique for me. I can see why some people don't like this change but I really think it's up to the viewers. I personally love it. I always thought Maul was cool even before the clone wars, and when they brought him back I was prepared to hate it, too. But then he started causing mayhem all over the galaxy, and went to war with both sides, both the republic and the separatists, that I couldn't help but fall in love with what they did. >Barriss Offee Again, I think it's like darth Maul. It's up to the viewers whether you'll like it or hate it. Right now I'm content with it, but only because Filoni said that he's not done with her character, and that she will hopefully have a reunion with Ahsoka one day. I like how she was kinda like a "pre" darth vader and made her one of the deepest jedi in the current canon. >The Clone microchips. One of the absolute worst decisions made in the show I wholeheartedly agree.
I disagree. TCW is superior to the PT in nearly every respect. Barring the visuals of TPM, which are the best of the era.
I'm with Bor Mullet mostly. Through TCW I could appreciate the PT more. I still can't drink enough to watch AOTC but I don't have to. I have TCW instead. Maybe it is because I couldn't care less about Legends (I've read enough books of it when I was young and still have some) or if someone was shown in a movie before. Why should I care? It's a galaxy. There are a lot of beings we'll never see - until the day they might show up. What is the galaxy like after the OT? A handful of planets. Jabba was a site note. Was it illogical that Han ended as his wall decoration and not as a statue on Yavin? Ahsoka was surely never on a level with Grievous or Ventress. But, in hindsight, she showed already what helped her survive till after Endor: To know when to run and hide. That's survival skill, not a fighting skill. I don't know why but from the first moment on I thought that's something her species is good at. Mostly I don't care if something doesn't fit something else. And when Lucas himself would have meant changing Mace Windu in a teddy bear, than I could shake my head but still have to except it. If something gets published at a later date I simply have to live with things. I might like them, I might not. On thing to the microchips: For me it was the best decision ever. Actually it brought a new tragic into the saga, one that showed that it weren't just the Jedi who got betrayed and assassinated. The clones were also victims. Victims that have been ripped off any own decisions and agencies. They formed friendships with their generals, but when the order came they had to obey. No free will, no decision. Nothing. For me personally I have more trouble to watch ROTS after TCW just because of this. In a way the clones show that the Jedi might have freed one slave (that turned against them) just to enslave people with no say in anything that was done to them and who, being given an order, have to obey there Master - just like a slave would have to obey. (Yes, I do think that the "nameless" in the one prophecy means clones and all those that got left behind).
I like both of them and consider both of them canon. In fact that is where star wars becomes good when you can merge both of them and not be too critical.
Agree on some aspects for sure. I think Anakin's characterization doesn't match up with AOTC. I can't see Anakin in AOTC become his TCW personality only 2 months in. Also, Anakin is quite a static character in the show, and him becoming his ROTS personality immediately when the show begins, robs him of any character development to be had. Legends had a infinitely more complex Anakin. I can give or take Ahsoka. She is much more tolerable from Season 3 onwards. I also don't really like the microchips. There was something much more fascinatingly eerie about the clones having "free will" to execute Order 66. It also makes me wonder if the microchips wipe away any previous personality from the clones. Everything else I can deal with.
The Anakin-as-knight thing makes sense, once war breaks out that stuff escalates quickly. Pretty sure the highest-ranking guy physically on some of the Pacific islands during the war against the Japanese was like 27 or something in some cases, the experienced guys were either elsewhere or killed. However many Jedi there are (a few thousand maybe?) swept up into a huge galactic war, promotions are going to be handed out more liberally than usual just kind of out of necessity. People have gotta grow up quickly, historically war's a pretty prime motivator in that.
Darth you brought up some good points here. I miss the multi-media project because it was in real time and more in line with the era as the prequels were unfolding. I enjoyed the novel, comic book, video game, short story, micro-series melding of stories and while it was far from perfect. They really did tell a compelling story for what was made available at the time. The big problem has always been that GL has been skeptical and adamant about the EU, even though it brought him money and kept star wars alive longer than it probably should have been. So everyone else was basically left to their own devices as it pertains to telling a story within the multi-media clone war. This is always a problem because you never really knew if it was GL approved or not. You'd have to go through all these self imposed level of canon to determine if its real or not. That was one big draw back and it sucked as those stories were good. Then Disney bought star wars and after what they did it kind of felt like all those people that worked on that multi-media project got the shaft when the stories became not canon in the new Disneyverse way of doing things. The clone wars micro series season 3, volume 2 is actually a very good lead in to ROTS, along with the LOE novel. For me, its going to be very hard to look at the Seige of Mandalore as being this super bridge to the movie when the micro series did an excellent job all these years. My other problem is that the new clone war series got so expansive that they over shot the runway and contrary to some of you. I don't feel that Filoni ever really wanted to go back to TCW. Which is a shame, and Disney not completing that series is going to leave a mark in star wars forever. Yes, I know that we are getting 12 more episodes but all were are really getting are 8. We already know about Bad Batch and the other two deal with Ashoka. There's no Bounty Hunter arc coming out (knowing that the Boba Fett movie is dead because of Solo), there's no Yoda/Wookiee arc, and some of the others. The entire series is not getting completed, and that is a shame. Even if they come out in comic book or novel, its not the same. (But at this stage, I'll take anything to complete the series if that is what it takes) My problem with the clone wars has been that this big set of series is incomplete. What I can say that is positive is that the series does make the prequels that much better and if we really look deep, GL fulfilled at least 9 movies because back in the day, when he had star wars pegged at 12 movies, there was one trilogy that dealt with the republic, its fall and all that stuff. Well, we know that is the prequels. Then you had all this stuff with the OT. The sequel trilogy was suppose to be about the force and so far in an odd way that has been what the sequel trilogy has been about....an awakening. But one trilogy was set in the clone wars where GL has three movies in that frame, so with this series it could be argued that he fulfilled the prequel and OT set of movies along with the clone wars one. The clone war series did add a lot to the prequel movies. Now if you talk about the prequel movie novelizations, then I would argue that you only need those three books and you have the entire prequel story without needing anything else. The question is, why follow something that is not complete, when you can go over to Marvel and have all these movies tie together and the new series coming out with Disney plus going to add more to there ever expanding successful universe? Agents of Shield, Jessica Jones, Iron Fist, Iron Cage, Agent Carter, Runaways, and Cloak and Dagger can all be there own little universe (They're actually pretty good if you ask me). Right now, I feel that with Marvel they took the time to really develop their universe across movies, television, and animation and with star wars they kind of was hoping that because everyone knows the name brand that it would take off by itself without little planning.
Had you been describing Rey, I would have agreed with you whole heatedly. But I never once felt that way about Ahsoka. IMO she's a perfect complimentary character to Anakin in TCW and I never felt like she took the focus away from him or Obi-Wan. That's the beauty of having a series instead of a movie though. You can give each character some episodes to take the spotlight and you can also spend more time developing their character. Rey might have turned out better had she been given a series but the way she was written in the ST was horrible IMO.
