Son of the Suns. Solved?

Trust me guys, I'm not trying to chalk myself up, this just came to me today and I did a bit of thinking on it. WARNING, symbolism is the factor here.

Ok, before I continue, there are a few things that need to be understood. For this theory to be feasible... 1. Anakin Skywalker would be the Chosen One. 2. Luke Skywalker would be the Son of the Suns. And 3. Darth Vader by no means, is a helpless disabled old man. We need to understand that although Vader wasn't exactly fully functional... he sure did pack a punch.

In the Outer Rim of the GFFA, there is a planet orbiting two stars in a binary system. Now, the only assumption here is that these two stars used to be one. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) And that by some sort of... phenomenon or natural accident, they separated.

Now, we all know that this planet is an important place to the GFFA story, it was home to our most important heroes.

Anakin Skywalker is/was the Chosen One. Whether you believe he was the Chosen One from birth, or rose to the occasion in that fateful moment in ROTJ, the vast majority agree, on Anakin's census form, "Chosen One," along with Jedi and Sith, were listed as his occupations.

There is a minority that say that Luke could be the Chosen One, but, we may never know unless George Lucas finally comes up with an answer.

But what about the Son of the Suns? Many say this, Son of the Suns = Chosen One, same thing. Many say that Luke is the Son of the Suns. This last point, (too accurate for Jawas...) is the issue I am going to attempt to address.

Literally, Luke could never be the Son of the Suns. No one could, what a ridiculous concept! Symbolically however...

There is a parallel between these two suns, and our own Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader. One sun represents Anakin, the other Vader. Now I know its difficult to imagine either of these two men being represented by suns, but I don't mean with the 'light' symbolism. At least not yet. When you think of these two suns, think raw energy, apposed to light.

These two suns (these two men) are two halves of one whole. (Hell, more goddamn twins.) Now... every so often, you get this beautiful thing called an Eclipse. I read up on binary systems, and it seems that two stars can eclipse. Its called an Eclipsing Binary. One star (sun) passes over another.

So, the Anakin-sun becomes hidden by the Vader-sun, causing this eclipse. These are the Empire years. Because one sun is still visible, true darkness does not fall. Arguably, you could say that this represents Vader's state of darkness, that he never really was truly dark, because if he had have been, he would have killed Luke, who, objectively, is a huge threat to him. The Vader-sun casts twilight over all. But still, around the edges of the Vader-sun, the Anakin-sun strains to shine forth all the clearer. In time, we know that this Vader-sun will pass on, and submit to the Anakin-sun. My belief is, that no matter what, Vader will always be a part of Anakin. So, the Vader-sun passes, and the light resumes quite smoothly.

And where do these two suns live? Tatooine. And who lives on Tatooine? Luke Skywalker. And who do these two suns represent? Anakin Skywalker, and Darth Vader. Luke's biological father. So, symbolically, Luke IS the Son of the Suns, and they watch over him.

This theory satisfies me to a point. I'm not really fussed on weather or not anyone else believes it. Just wanted to deal in another hand of cards.

 

Is the Son of Suns part of the EU or something? Because it surprises me how much people know about a reference that never appeared in any of the films themselves.

 

^It's part of the Journal of the Whills that GL had ADF include at the beginning of the ANH novelization. It really smacks so much of Dune that novelization does.

 

Anakin=Darth Vader

There is no "Vader-Persona", they are the same person. He's simply undergone some severe personality changes after ROTS because he drew his twisted and nontwisted conclusions from the events. That's why I think he'd act more like a "nice Vader" in heaven, not like his naiv shortsighted younger self. Therefore imo you base this hypothesis on a false premise.

 

Fair enough. Every theory that could be presented on the Son of the Suns changes between understandings of the character from person to person. True enough, they are the same person, yet throughout ESB and ROTJ Vader quite clearly points out to Luke that they are not, but I believe that was more of a product of Vader badly needing a tune-up and a reality check.

With Vader's cunning mind, and Anakin's raw need for action, the man is an absolute genius.

... Or maybe I'm the one who needs a reality check, sleep and a good episode of TCW for reading far too deeply into this saga.

 

Well, that's why I love him so.
He's nuts, but in a fascinating kind of way.

 

I'm pretty certain its not. The Son of the Suns appears in the second draft of 1975. And its Luke. Thats pretty clearly established by the end of the film. I don't believe the "son of suns" things is referenced ever again. So, not to be a killjoy in otherwise good discussion, its pretty undebatable that its intended that the Son of Suns is Luke. Of course, in light of the six film cycle theres room for re-interpretation--but since the the Son of Suns is not actually refernced in any of the films and only exists in a rough draft of the first film, this to me seems pretty pointless. The Son of Suns is Luke. He's the savior in the 1975 second draft because he helps topple the Empire. He does the same thing in the final film, and then again in ROTJ (even if its Vader who kills the Emperor, its Luke's actions that cause this). Well, my two cents, anyway.

 

Oh, for the love of crumbcake, the ANH novel does not include any such quotation. The prologue is solely about Palpatine's political machinations and describes early script ideas about how Palpatine became controlled by the lackeys he surrounded himself with.

 

I guess the vast majority believe that the two prophecy's aren't connected. But some believe they are, but their is little evidence to support this. This is a new play of hands, something extra that may be influential, that's all.

It seems likely that the all great and mystifying prophecy of "The Chosen One," simply went by a different name in 1976. Originally, before the details where worked out, the Son of the Suns (The Chosen One) referred to Luke Skywalker. Then once the prophecy plot came together (mostly) we still had this phrase "Son of the Suns" left off on the side. The actual phrase can't really relate to Anakin, because his father literally is the force. (Bizarre.) But I think a lot of fans are intrigued by this little extra. With a lot of George's 30 year old ideas, many of them have changed dramatically in that time. And because of the long standing continuation of this Saga, beliefs from 70's era fans differ a lot from those of the new millennium. I fear, unless GL confirms that "Son of the Suns" got the cutting room floor, a lot of fans are going to continue on around a round a bout trying to figure out what the hell it darn means. The Son of the Suns is one of the major discussions between SW fans, along with Who Won Where.

I would have included this above, but the idea was a new outlook and opinion, not a history lesson.

 

I have a first printing of ANH's novelization, and the Son of Suns does not appear in the opener, so zombie is correct there. I am not knowledgable enough to know if it appears anywhere else in EU.

Son of Suns is a widely known reference from earlier drafts and is rumored to still be a part of the Saga by virtue of the prophecy, which Yoda and Mace spoke of. Whether or not GL intended to keep that line (Son of Suns) or not, I cannot say, but if he did he would now by meant for Anakin. Originaly, though, the reference was referred to the Luke character (though not called Luke in that particular draft).

 

Jedi_Master_Cazz Your post makes some great points about symbolism and i agree with all your ideas but i have to say that if there are people out there that STILL don't think Anakin is the chosen one than i just don't know what more Lucas has to do in order to make this anymore concrete. Anakin is the chosen one and yes, the prophecy is about him.

George Lucas says this and stresses it as much as he can any chance he gets.

While i do think that his children (as specially Luke) helped the prophecy a lot and were almost definitely key players, it was Anakin that was the chosen one without any doubt.

As far as this "son of suns" thing gos, there's been nothing officially said about it so its anybody's guess. I like all your ideas on it so i would go with that. I think that Luke would be the "son of suns" though because of what you said about the symbolism of Anakin being "the two suns" and luke being the "son of suns".

 

Thanks, Obi-Rob. Star Wars has been interpreted in a lot of different ways, spiritually, religiously and in mythology. But I rarely see a symbolism interpretation. Sure enough, some things cannot be represented with symbols, but with this Son of the Suns story, the symbolism makes sense to me. *Shrug*

 

I'm a fan of the symbolism(and probably in part because I favored the idea that if anyone is the Son of the Suns, Luke is, for some time.)

 

Oh totally.

Anakin is the "chosen one" and Luke is the "son of suns". Its good.

I love and appreciate all the symbolism there is in star wars, is there a topic on symbolism anywhere? If not than there should be, threads like that make for some awesome discussions.

 

There used to be an Ivory Tower thread, but it's since been replaced with complaining about how Luke isn't getting what's due him.

 

I'm going to have to argue against you on this one but please don't change your mind on my account. The suns never represented Anakin/Vader because Luke was never The Son of The Suns. The suns represent Providence and Anakin/Vader was always its son who it gave to the Star Wars people; however, the parentage is not just limited to the two celestial bodies you refer to but he (Anakin) is the son of many celestial bodies throughout the Star Wars universe which represent Providence within Lucas' visual story.

 

I believe there was, but I didn't find it in a quick search.

Actually, Luke(Starkiller) was the Son of the Suns in the second draft. The only reference to the Son of the Suns concept is from that draft.

 

Master Starwalker, you gave me a link to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia where anyone who has internet access can create articles, so what's the point of the link? Besides, you're wrong about the second draft being only draft that possesses The Son of The Suns reference: third draft

Master Starwalker, there is nothing within the second draft that tells the reader that Luke is The Son of The Suns.
In fact, the second draft ends by clearly explaning to the reader that the draft they just read is only one of many confrontations that The Starkiller and his sons will have with the Galactic Empire and the Sith knights:

A ROLL-UP TITLE appears:

...And a thousand new systems joined the rebellion, causing a significant crack in the great wall of the powerful Galactic Empire. The Starkiller would once again spark fear in the hearts of the Sith knights, but not before his sons were put to many tests... the most daring of which was the kidnapping of the Lars family, and the perilous search for:

"The Princess of Ondos."

FADE OUT:

END CREDITS

THE END

In closing, we don't know who The Son of The Suns is in the second draft because that was Lucas' intention since he closed the second draft with a paragraph that is an introduction to the next great adventure for The Starkiller and his sons without defining who is The Son of The Suns. I have read both the second and third draft which contain The Son of The Suns reference and there is nothing in either of them that clearly defines Luke as The Sons of The Suns but I'm more than willing to have you show me the error of my ways.

If anyone is The Son of The Suns in the second draft it is probably The Starkiller, who is the father, who becomes Annikin Starkiller in the third draft and you know that Lucas claims that Vader was always the father in May of 1977.

 

The 2nd draft doesn't explicitly say it, but Luke Starkiller's destruction of the Death Star implies that he'll go on to become the savior mentioned by the prophecy of the Son of the Suns. He's still the one who undergoes the beginning of the hero's journey while the Starkiller functions as the mentor. Speaking of the Starkiller, the only real similarity he has to Anakin is his name. In term of his function, the Starkiller is closer to Obi-Wan.

 

But the Empire and the Sith knights did NOT end with the destruction of the Death Star and the second draft clearly says this and that part of the draft even became the plot of the fully realized trilogy in which Luke is NOT the prophisied savoir.

What does the beginning of the hero's journey have to do with The Son of The Suns? As the ending clearly states this is only a portion of the full story about the "Adventures of The Starkiller" and his sons. How do you know Deak, Windy or Biggs weren't going to be The Son of The Suns in the next story? See, it's this blatant disregard, that you possess, for any burden of proof that I take issue with because I don't jump to conclusion that are based on Joseph Campbell's ramblings. My conclusions are logical and follow statements made by Lucas about Star Wars history.
For example:
1.) In the second draft Luke has a father and there is an unknown prophesied savoir.
2.) The characters drastically change from the second draft to the third draft and, out of all the previous drafts, the third draft most resembles the finished movie.
3.) In the third draft Luke has a presumably dead father who is Annikin who we later find out, via the movies, is really Vader and there is an unknown prophesied savior who we later find out, via the movie is Luke's father.
4.) Lucas says Vader was always the father and that the story was always about Anakin.
5.) Lucas says Vader is a prophesied savior.
So in conclusion, based on the finished six movies, the shift in Lucas' characters from the second draft to the third draft show that Annikin/Vader is The Son of The Suns and that is why The Son of The Suns reference is at the beginning of third draft even though you say it isn't.

How is that? In the third draft, Obi-Wan rescued and mentored Luke not long after the audience is introduced to Luke while in the second draft it is Luke who rescued The Starkiller from being old and broken. In the second draft, Luke never needed The Starkiller to begin the journey because Luke functions independly of The Starkiller throughout the first 87% of the story and that is very unlike the relationship Luke has with Obi-Wan in the third draft. If anything the Obi-Wan character was devoloped because Lucas made remarkable changes to the Luke and Owen characters from draft 2 to draft 3.

In the second draft:
1.) Owen trained Luke how to fight.
2.) Luke explains to his twin brothers, thus explains to the audience, about the Starkiller family legacy and the history of the galaxy.
3.) It is made clear to the audience that Luke possesses a very mature demeanor and independent leadership skills.
4.) Owen encourages Luke to begin his journey.

In the third draft:
1.) Obi-Wan trains Luke how to fight.
2.) Obi-Wan explains to Luke, thus explains to the audience, his Starkiller family legacy and the history of the galaxy.
3.) It is made clear to the audience Luke possesses an immature demeanor and needs his hand held by Obi-Wan.
4.) Owen discourages Luke from beginning his journey.

And I'm not really understanding what you mean by saying the only similarity between The Starkiller and Anakin is his name. In the second draft Cliegg, Deak, Luke, Windy and Biggs' father is The Starkiller and he just went by the name of The Starkiller. In the third draft Luke has a father named Annikin Starkiller. So what are you talking about?

The thing is, Master Skywalker, no one has ever presen

 

[image=http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/tatooine/img/eu_bg.jpg]

 

The Empire and the Sith Knights continue to exist, but the implication is he'll go on to destroy them in some later adventure. It makes no sense to assume that the Starkiller will return to prominence and usurp the role of the hero.

In the fully-realized trilogy, the Son of the Suns prophecy isn't ever confirmed to exist.

As for the point about Joseph Campbell, you mean the "ramblings" which Lucas has stated were incredibly influential to him?

I don't know that Deak, Windy, or Biggs weren't going to be Son of the Suns, however they don't take up the role of the hero in the draft while Luke does. There's no reason to assume Luke would cease being the protagonist of the story. Really, saying they're the Son of the Suns makes roughly as much sense as saying Han is in the film itself.

As to your examples:
1.) True.
2.) True.
3.) The latter films have little to do with the third draft. Lucas didn't decide that Vader was Luke's father until they were working on Empire as evidenced by the fact that Lucas refers to them as separate people in an interview with Rolling Stone.
4.) Lucas says that, but there's evidence that while he may have thought about connecting them, he seems not to have settled on it immediately.
5.) The Son of the Suns reference is there because it refers to the actions of Luke Starkiller, not his dead father or a Sith knight.

 

Thats basically what I was saying. Yeah, Anakin is the chosen one, the messiah, whatever. But--the Son of Suns? Thats not in the film. Its not even part of the background info. It was part of an early draft that existed decades before Lucas even dreamed up the "anakin is the chosen one" thing, and years before even the first film was released; it was never part of the proper series, and certainly not the Anakin-centric one of today (which has its own, sort of alternative, prophecy which has NOTHING to do with a prophecy Lucas had going in 1975 about Luke in an early draft). While no one--well, few--will despute that Anakin is meant to be the chosen one, the son of suns thing died before the first film was ever made and never resurfaced, not once, in the thirty+ years since then.

And, if you read the second draft, its Luke. Sure, it's not out and out said--"the son of suns is Luke"--because honestly when do movies, even George Lucas ones, make such idiotic statements like that? But its quite clear that its Luke, and in fact we do get an exchange that comes as close to stating such a thing as there can be within the confines of writing drama:

"VADER
This is another of his sons.

COMMANDER
Your master said he'd killed them all...And why is he wearing his father's crest?

VADER
His father must be dead. The Starkiller would never give this up if he were alive...It possesses great power. This boy must be the last...


COMMANDER
"The son of the suns!" The last of the Starkiller line, whom the seer's have said would bring down the Empire.


Just read the actual material. As fun as it is to make creative speculation, if you're going to try to make interpretations of the actual draft that contains the "Son of Suns" concept, any sort of "interpretation" doesn't really get far.

So yeah. Two different concepts:
1975: Son of the Suns--Luke
1999: The Chosen One--Anakin

 

Zombie, let me get this straight, are you suggesting that Luke is The Son of The Suns because Luke is the last of the Starkiller line?
If that's what's you're saying then your logic dictates that either Windy or Biggs is The Son of The Suns. Do you refuse to follow your own logic?

WINDY
Why are you going away?

LUKE
Because our father needs me, as he will need you someday.

BIGGS
I thought our father was killed?


LUKE
The time has come for me to tell you of your heritage, as Deak told it to me and as his older brother Cliegg told it to him.

The boys settle down and listen attentively.

 

So, you've gone from saying "it's Anakin/Vader" to "It's Biggs or Windy"? That a pretty big about-face.

Like I said, its not out and out said. But, within the confines of the script, the audience gets the implication that its Luke. He's the hero. He's the one that brings down the Deathstar. The Imperials think its Deak, the eldest and most powerful of the Starkiller offspring, but then Deak gets kidnapped and it ends up being Luke who saves the day, kills Sith Lord Darth Vader and destroys the Death Star. He's the lowly peasant that no one ever paid attention to that ends up pulling the sword from the stone, so to speak.

The final scene of the script (Luke's triumphant return from destroying the Death Star):

Luke runs up and hugs the Corellian pirates. They all laugh and cheer.

The white-robed Starkiller approaches the group, followed by a hundred aides, troops, ground crews, and Generals. Antilles and the robots join Han, Luke and the others. As the Starkiller approaches, they all bow low, including Chewbacca and the robots.

THE STARKILLER
Your achievement will be sung through the ages. The Kiber Crystal has stopped the onslaught of the Bogan forces so that brave warriors can once again show their merit... The revolution has begun.


Why would Lucas make two side characters (Biggs and Windy) who have only one scene and only a few lines, and don't appear in any previous or subsequent script, to be the "hero" when the series is called The Adventure of Luke Starkiller? Like I said, the audience gets that the Son of the Suns is Luke without having George Lucas himself walk onto the screen and actually explain it.