ST Strange continuity of Yoda's speach to Luke (ep. VI, VIII)found.

Hello. I am re-watching Star Wars films et least once per season.
So I watched episode VI and VIII actually in one same day and this thing came to me spontaneously.
What if Rian Johnson has honored Yoda's words in exact continuity and meaning and by this has left a hidden message who Rey is?

What I mean?
Please look at this.

Return of the Jedi.


He says :
Luke...the Force runs strong in your family.(*1) Pass on what you have learned. Luke There...is...another...Sk...Sky...walker (*2)
[Yoda dies, then disappears into thin air]

Now, in the Last Jedi Yoda actually reappears to Luke for the first time after moment he died ,and Yoda comes to reassure Luke and to remind Luke of this same words.



[Yoda reappears]
L: Master Yoda.
Y: Young Skywalker.
L: I'm ending all of this. The tree, the text, the Jedi. I'm gonna burn it down.
Y: Ah, Skywalker. Missed you, have I.
L: So it is time for the Jedi Order to end.
Y: Time it is. For you to look past a pile of old books, hmm?
L: The sacred Jedi texts.
Y: Oh. Read them, have you? Page-turners they were not. Yes, yes, yes. Wisdom they held, but that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess. (*1) hmm....Skywalker, still looking to the horizon. Never here, now, hmm? The need in front of your nose.
L: I was weak. Unwise.
Y: Lost Ben Solo, you did. Lose Rey, we must not.
L: I can't be what she needs me to be.
Y: Heeded my words not, did you? Pass on what you have learned (*2)
Strength, mastery. But weakness, folly, failure also. Yes, failure most of all. The greatest teacher, failure is. Luke, we are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters.

 

I don't see it. The line about the library not containing anything Rey doesn't already possess refers to the fact that Rey has already taken the books that were inside, as evidenced by them being seen on the Falcon later on.

I also don't see how there could possibly be any connection between all those things. Yoda told Luke to pass on what he had learned, yes, but that wasn't connected to the line about there being another Skywalker (which was Leia, obviously), as there is a clear and pretty significant break between the things Yoda is saying. Rey couldn't have anything to do with those words, as she was over a decade away from even being born.

Yoda didn't appear to Luke before, because Luke had cut himself off from the force, which apparently made it impossible for Yoda to appear to him. Now that Luke has re-connected to it, Yoda can appear to him, give him a bit of advice and remind him to pass on his knowledge to another generation of Jedi. This didn't refer to the Skywalker-line but to rebuild the Jedi in general, which is what Luke did, before stopping with all that after his temple got destroyed. They can't afford to lose Rey, because she is the counter-balance to Ben. If those two both went to the darkside, then there isn't really anyone who can stop them, and rebuilding the Jedi wouldn't really be possible either.

 

If there is really "another" Skywalker (and not Leia):

• it would have meant that Shmi had another son/daughter after Anakin left (or even before). But how should Yoda know about this
• it could mean that Vader / Anakin had other children than Luke/Leia. This would be really far fetched and stupid. How would Yoda know about it
• Leia/Luke had children. Yes theoretically, possible but not at the time Yoda dies.

I doubt there is a deeper meaning.

 

The big tie-in is that Yoda reiterated what he wanted him to do (Pass on what he’d learned) but now realizes that the new Jedi Order through Luke had focused too much on strength and mastery and not talking about foolishness, recklessness and failures.
Luke had learned so much in those areas and could speak to even the failures of his father in training but as Bloodine told us... he and Leia had kept the Vader reveal a secret for decades. Opening the door for Snoke to likely be the one who informed of Vader first and define him very differently.

Yoda also tells him essentially that he can’t beat himself up any more about Ben Solo and also his struggles on the island because at a certain point all students feel that they’ve grown beyond their parents/masters/teachers and decide they’re going to do things their own way. Luke’s choices on Ahch-To are in some ways a reflection of that same idea. Yoda never would have thought to end the Order and shut himself off from the Force but Luke went his own way. As he had successfully done in the past before.

 

I think the stronger connection is Rey’s “Then he’s [Ben’s] our last hope.”

(Which mirrors what Obi-wan tells Yoda in ESB as another young naive Jedi-in-training scampers off due to belief a vision.)

To which Yoda replies “No, there is another...”

Which in RotJ he clarifies means “Another Skywalker.”

Seriously - the TLJ dialogue is well-worth parsing.

(For example, compare the TLJ elevator/throne room scene dialogue with its RotJ counterpart. It’s abundantly clear that RJ had the RotJ script in front of him while writing TLJ...)

 

That was the secondary meaning.

But the primary meaning - that Rey already knows certain lessons that the books are designed to teach, and does not strictly need the books in that sense, IMO is also valid.

 

Exactly my thought. Interpretation that its Yoda's reference for Rey taking the books tbh is to simple explanation, while of course is legit to. In my opinion , by the context, Yoda is talking about teaching, and, again in my opinion, points to Luke that Rey posess something invaluable that is not in the books. Which, again by my opinion, can only be Rey's inherited quality.

Yoda died with exact words---" Luke...the Force runs strong in your family. Pass on what you have learned" and repeats this on Ahch-To.

The sentence "Pass on what you have learned" Yoda repeats literally, and asks from Luke to recall what he said to him..Yoda wants for Luke to understand this alone by himself, not by Yoda telling him. Yoda literally tellss to Luke to forget the books and focus on Rey, because she is precious.

 

The entire convo seems to revolve around Rey. Just another reason we’ll see Luke in 9

 

The whole thing is a remix.

The ST is trying to be Star Wars greatest hits and covering all of the main beats in one single new trilogy for new audiences.

This is why Ben Solo is younger and shown to have more conflict because they want the best of Anakin in the prequel trilogy. Opposite this grandson of Vader, I believe, is that they're hoping to mix Padme and Kenobi into one character as the grandaughter of Kenobi. She is both the object of desire for this Anakin the way Padme was but she's also fighting alongside this Anakin as Kenobi did and against him. In fact, when this trilogy ends we may learn that in all 3 trilogies a Kenobi and Skywalker fought with and against the other.

Her initial denial and desire to believe Ben over Luke is like when Padme called Obi-Wan a liar. Her desire to get to the truth about the temple massacre and pushing for what really happened is Kenobi. Her belief to go to this Anakin and tell him she'll help him is Padme.

On Dagobah a Kenobi tells Luke to not fight yet. On Ahch-To I believe it's a Kenobi telling Luke to come and fight. Luke doesn't listen to either Kenobi in V or VIII and Rey says, just as her grandfather did "He's our last hope." Obi-Wan Kenobi felt Luke was the key. Rey Kenobi feels Ben Solo is.

From here things play out like a mixture of Revenge of the Sith and Return of the Jedi's throne room scene. A mashup because fate has changed the dynamics. In ROTJ Anakin tells Luke earlier he must obey his master but in Episode VIII this saga's Anakin is planning to kill his boss the whole time so that he can be with Rey which is closer to when Anakin tells Padme, "I'm more powerful than the Chouncellor. I can overthrow him and together you and I can rule the galaxy." That's what Ben Solo wants. He sees Rey as his Padme in that situation and he wants to kill his boss so that they two of them can rule together.

Then things switch back to the OT and the dynamic is obviously very close to Vader and Luke but instead of this Sidious zapping Luke and forcing this Anakin to act this Sidious reveals that he has no interest in turning Rey at all and that he did this for his final lesson. He doesn't see Rey as someone who'll turn. He knows she's this saga's Kenobi and will never turn and doesn't have enough darkness to be turned. This also makes it different than Luke and Vader. Rey doesn't represent the replacement or the family line. She represents the potential ally/friend/lover to Ben Solo. Snoke knows this and wants Ben to kill this saga's Padme/Kenobi because doing so will move him to the Dark side further. But he won't... He kills his boss instead.

They join forces and kill a Dark Sider's guards together (Something Vader and Luke never did)


The force battle over the saber reminds more of this moment than anything Luke and Vader did.



Rey ends up leaving him incapacitated but alive and can't let the saber go.

 

@Ender_and_Bean

You seem to me to be saying that parallels with Anakin/Obi-wan are evidence for Reynobi while far closer and more clearly deliberate parallels to Vader/Luke are either just callbacks or a signal that Kylo/Rey is very different. If this is indeed your argument I don’t see how that’s consistant at all.

 

More than any parallels that seem most clear to any of us I'm saying that this trilogy is Star Wars greatest hits and thus a total mashup of familar beats. Because of that it's easy for you or me to see what we want to see but I'm not sure that either is really hinting at the direction at all. I think they just chose the surprise they thought would work best for the most amount of people and that they felt would be easiest to explain right at the end and then let the writers remix as many elements as they wanted. Some are strong Skywalker callbacks. Some are strong Kenobi callbacks. They cast a young woman who looks like Luke from the nose down in the face but who speaks with the only accent reminscent of Kenobi. They focused on a saber that many see as the Skywalker saber but if the point was to subvert expectations not only on the surprise in the end but even the ties to that saber then they also left themselves an out for the fact that Kenobi is the force user who had that saber the longest of everyone and who had the right to give it to a Skywalker. If IX has Rey and Ben working together more then a Kenobi and Skywalker will have been allies and fought each other in each trilogy. If it's about grandparents and grandchildren then we've seen Ben Solo talk to Vader's mask and heard Obi-Wan talk to Rey through the saber. If it's about who that saber belongs to more then we saw in Revenge of the Sith Kenobi show that Vader wasn't worthy of it any more and that moment continues in TFA with Rey being more worthy of it than Ben and comes back again as a direct throw-back as Rey picks it back up after she's left Ben and not killed him the same way Obi-Wan did Anakin. We are through 2 films and Ben Solo has given no indication he sees their bond as familial and if he did I don't see why he wouldn't have been the one to tell her that in the throne room. He tried gaslighting in the hopes she'd come to him because his feelings are attraction-based, not familial. He didn't say, "Please" because he really wants to spend time with his cousin. It's because he wants her romantically.

 

Are you claiming that all of the parallels - including in several parts near-exact dialogue and a perfect inversion of the RotJ throne room scene are merely callbacks? Those parallels are...not “seeing what I want to see.” They’re fact; the only subjective element is what the parallels mean.

It seems to me, from what I’ve noticed, that the biggest weakness to your argument is that it supports Reysky far more than Reynobi. You see Rey-Obi-wan parallels, but there are far more and clearer Rey-Luke parallels, down to a concept artist drawing Rey while referencing a stil of OT Luke in the same pose. If what you consider xyz evidence for Reynobi, then to dismiss Reysky evidence dependent on the same reasoning is completely arbitrary and inconsistant and really undermines your theory.

Just wanted to note that.

 

I think RJ's focus was more on this

 

I'm claiming that there are so many callbacks that support either theory that they negate either of us leaning too heavily on the callbacks themselves. Even the ones that are near exact dialogue. I see all of the callbacks as simply Star Wars greatest hits being utilized for new audiences and I think the clear attempts at subversion suggest that the most obviously theory of all (ReySky) was always the least likely to be chosen. Especially with JJ Abrams at the helm. They've given themselves enough things they can point to for either theory in the end so the question for me is less about which theory they've supported more with what you see as clues and I simply see as greatest hits moments remixed and more about what the reveal does for what they wanted at the start.

IMO, they wanted to make this a grandparents and grandchildren trilogy and to tie the end of the 9 part saga more to the start of it. A bookend. IMO, they wanted to explore Reylo conceptually and tease it at the very least because Twilight and the Hunger Games were popular at the time Disney was circling the purchase of Star Wars and I think they wanted to try aspects of that into Star Wars. I think Kenobi was chosen because it allowed for a surprise that could make sense in the end, but wasn't the first theory most people would have, didn't need to overwhelm the entire saga the way Reysky would due to Luke existing still, and because they want a redeemed Ben Solo in the end and see the Skywalker bloodline living on through him anyway for future stories. As someone who purchased a space opera of famous familes Ben Solo gives them ties back to Han, Leia, Luke and Anakin. Rey Kenobi gives them a tie back to one of the most popular characters who will otherwise remain gone forever if they can't find a way to bring his line into the story and what better time than to bookend it given how he and Anakin started and both fought together and against each other. There are other production rumors that I can't speak to here since this is the ST thread and not the IX spoilers thread that also seem to support my theory.

 

Rey and Kylo didn’t “join forces” he tricked her into thinking he was in her side.

 

He told her in the elevator it was her who'd join him and stand with him. He was transparent about his intentions. They united around the common enemy of the Praetorian guard.

 

Too bad they’re back to being enemies. I hope Snoke returns in some form.

 

What does that have to do with what happened after he killed Snoke? That very clearly led her to believe he had went to her side (she wanted him to order about stop the attack on the Resistance). After that he used her to help get rid of the guards. That’s not fighting a common enemy. That’s manipulation. It wasn’t even really a “common enemy” it was one fighting an enemy and the other getting rid of witnesses.

 

Each of them believed the other was going to join them before heading into the throne room and after once the final guards were gone. She thought she had him wrapped around her finger since she could tell he liked her. He thought he had her wrapped around his finger since he knew she came form nothing and could offer her a chance to rule the galaxy.

Both were wrong about the other.

 

Clearly, whatever they learned through the vision, it did not enhance their understanding of each other.

 

This thread is unnecessary. We have a thread to discuss Rey. We have a thread to discuss Rey and Kylo. So yeah... locking.