Tao/Zen or Bushido, what is the Jedi Way?

Branching off from the OT vs PT thread, I thought this topic is siginificant enough to warrant its own thread. Essentially, the question is ?What is the Jedi Way?, as we see it in the Saga, and what real world philosophy is the mostly based on. The question originates from a discussion where I argued in favour of understanding the Jedi Way as Zen, while my discussant argued in favour of seeing the Jedi Knights as Samurai. This is a really interesting debate, and it should possible to gain more insight by comparing what we see in the movies with Zen and Bushido, respectively. Now, I went to Wikipedia to check these philosophies out more closely, and the Zen entry isn?t terribly informative, so I?m using the entry for Taoism instead. The two are, as I understand it, rather similar (indeed, Zen was imported to Japan from China, where it is called Chan Buddhism ? a strand of Buddhism that is fundamentally based on Taoist thought).

So here goes:
Bushido, according to Wikipedia: Rectitude, Courage, Benevolence, Respect, Honesty, Honour, Loyalty

The emphasis seems to be on honour and propriety for propriety?s sake and the most noble thing a Samurai can aspire to is an honourable death in battle, killed by a sword. If honour is ever lost, it can only be regained through ritual suicide, seppuku.

Taoism, central principles:
Tao: The way, the flow of the Universe, the force behind the natural order, as manifested in Qi.
De: The active expression of Tao, how one lives according to Tao.
Wu Wei: Without action. Effortless doing, getting results by not doing. Passive over active. When someone exerts will against the world, harmony is disrupted. While harmony is intact, all is what it should be. To attain harmony, a person?s will must be aligned with that of the universe.

Now, of the two, I personally can think of bucket loads of example of Taoism in the Saga. I don't have time for an exhaustive catalogue of all the Taoist elements in the Staga, but here's a few off the top of my head:

ANH: Obi-Wan wins his duel against Vader by being killed. By not resisting, he becomes ?more powerful than [Vader] can possibly imagine?.

ESB: Too many to mention in a short space ? everything from Yoda?s appearance (old frail little man in a swamp), to a long litany of Yoda quotes: ?unlearn what you have learned?, etc, etc.

ROTJ: Luke winning by not fighting Vader. Very Wu Wei.

ROTS: Another Yoda quote: ?You must learn to let go of everything you fear to lose?. Harmony is the Way. Trying to avoid death is to upset the natural harmony and order of the universe.

And, of course, the Force is really pop-culture representation of the Taoist Qi. ?Use the Force?, could just as well be ?Use the Qi?.

As for Bushido, I can?t think of many representations of that philosophy among the Jedi, but then again, I haven?t looked for them.

Any takers?

 

That generalized description of bushido makes it sound very Klingon (ha). Not terribly Jedi.

Though in the PT I think the lines blur a bit; Obi-Wan in ROTS says his loyalty is to the Republic, a sentiment echoed by the other Jedi in that film. They don't attach their loyalty to the "moral right," or the Force itself, but to a societal institution. This more Samurai-like (being tied to a feudal lord).

My personal conception of the Jedi, as a person who became a fan before the prequels, is very tied up with the OT teachings. Which do seem more Zen. And more like Ronin.

 

Inner harmony as a means of reaching towards outer good. A willingness to accept peace through death or death through peace as needed.

 

Interesting. Just a few things I wanted to mention. Bushido, while it encompasses that list of attributes copied above, really means "the way of the warrior". The Jedi are shown to be warriors when needed, but at other times they avoid violence if possible ("never for attack"). I don't see the Jedi relishing fighting for fighting's sake, and bushido has I think sometimes been used to justify having an appetite for violence. I also don't see Jedi thinking that the only way to retain honor in some situations would be to commit suicide (seppuku), or that death in battle is the most honorable type. On the other hand, there are elements from Zen and Taoism that do correlate to the Jedi, such as meditation and some of the types of views expressed by the Jedi (such as when Yoda tells Anakin to let go of what he fears to lose). The Samurai, while warriors, were influenced by these religions too, but maybe not as much as the Jedi appear to be. The term "warrior-monk", while somewhat odd, does seem to fit the Jedi fairly well. So I don't really see the answer to the OP question as being one or the other, but really a blend.

Also just wanted to mention that Taoism and Zen may have similar concepts, but Zen is a form of Buddhism, separate from Taoism. Also, the Samurai were influenced by the native Japanese religion of Shintoism in addition to Buddhism (usually Zen).

 

Interesting comments, indeed!

As far as I understand it, it goes: Daoism>Chan Buddhism>Zen Buddhism. Which would mean that Zen is heavily influenced by Daoism - and everything I've ever read on Zen is very close to Daoism, indeed. All that Zen lacks, as far as I can tell, is the strong animist bent of Daoism.

Anyway, it could possibly be argued that both play a role - certainly the apperance of the Jedi does bring samurai to mind, as does their iconic weapon.

One funny thing I noted when TPM came out was the name of Qui-Gon Jinn. Qui-Gon is very close to Qi Gong, the pinyin transcribation of the practice of collecting Qi associated with Taiji in China. Jinn is essentially japanese for Man/Person. I was thinking to myself - did Lucas seriously name this guy Qi Gong Man?

 

The funny thing is that there is a branch of Taoism that actually teaches how to retain your consciousness in death, and even develop what can be compared to a Force ghost body, by means of qi gong practice.

I've always wondered whether Lucas was aware of that.

 

And of course in muslim cultures, jinn are things... kinda hard to describe. They're like ghosts or demons, but they're not all bad, said to be made of fire.
Qi-Gong Jinn?
Energy entity?
Spirit thing?
Force ghost?
Breath of fire? http://www.yogalesson.com/pranayama/breath_fire.html

 

Djinn, aka a genie.

 

The Force is supposedly the distillation of all religions.

 

If we were just talking about Luke himself ultimately going Zen as a personal choice, I could go with that. Maybe that's a separate question, is Luke the only one that actually walked the walk? But to say as a blanket statement "The Jedi Way is (fill in earth equivalent), I can't do it because it feels like there's always going to be too much other stuff to willfully ignore to get there. There is this thing that grown-up fans do more and more now it seems, and I'm as guilty as anyone, which is to cherry-pick favorite scenes and bits and bring your own baggage and decide "this is what it is". I don't know if it's because we're trying to stay interested 5 years after this thing ended. Or maybe the new movies just vary more wildly in quality and content from scene to scene, and we want to latch on to the meatiest stuff. It all reminds me of this:
"Look at what the Chinese have to work with! There's Buddhism, Confucionism, Taoist alchemy, and sorcery. We take what we like and leave the rest. Just like a salad bar!"

Big Trouble in Little China

 

Well, while I get the "it's a little of everything" - obviously most writers of popculture stuff will use all sorts of souces of inspiration for their work, intentionally or otherwise, leaving the work littered with a "salad" (good analogy) of "stuff". It's writer's license after all.

That said, when you create a Saga like Star Wars, and then put Yoda in as the Master per exellence who guides the hero to final victory, then what that Master is, does, and says will become very guiding for the image of the hero. I've been accused of making Yoda too central in my analysis of the Jedi Way before, but I find it difficult to get around the fact that he has the place he does in the OT - whenever wisdom is needed on how to be a good Jedi, it is to him one should turn, that's his functionality in that trilogy, and he retains much of that position in the PT. And when he then turns out to be a Taoist/Zen-master, that ideology is really given a central place for the Jedi Order. I really think that if Yoda had been presented as a Bushido master instead, or image of the Jedi order would be quite different. Which doesn't mean that Samurai or Bushido are entirely irrelevant for how the Order was conceptualized.

Maybe we could gain further insight into this by simply listing scenes/lines/visuals/etc. that we see as representations of the respective philosophy and why. I gave some examples above, but I'm happy to continue just to flesh out when I have a little more time...

 

"Do or do not; there is not try."

"Partially, but it [the Force] also obeys your commands."

These two phrases stick out to me as being among the essentials of Jedi philosophy. It also, in my mind, reflects a separation of Jedi vs. Taoist belief systems. While they are similar in that both believe that life is connected through an unseen force or energy, the Jedi make use of their connection to the Force to amplify personal abilities. While my familiarity with Taoism is basic at best, I do recall an element being avoiding thinking about the how and why of doing the "right" thing. If you have to think about it, then it is no longer a harmonious action. That is an oversimplification, and I may be wrong, but I hope that gets the point across.

The Jedi seem to not only want to do the "will of the Force" but also to be able to use the Force both as a guide and as a means to different abilities. I think there is a lot more intention in the Jedi way.

 

I'm not very familiar with Daoism, but I know exactly what you're getting at. Very well communicated. Fits in with the "let go your conscious self and act on instinct" teaching.

 

Which goes hand-in-hand with Qui-Gon's "Feel, don't think" from TPM. It's interesting, then, that Luke replies to Ben that "I could almost see the remote," as I would think that 'zoning out,' as it were, would reduce one's conscious experience. Like when one is a performer or athlete - frequently, events that occur while 'in the zone' aren't remembered as well. Maybe this relates to Daramin's more individual focus for the Force (Or perhaps it speaks to Luke's initiate-level understanding, or maybe I'm just reading too far into it.)

 

I thought that was alway supposed to be one of the greatest flaws of the Jedi Order in the PT. They have become servants of an institution rather than the Force. Of course, they do this for all the right reasons but in the end, they end up being entangled in bureaucracy and politics which isn't their place. In a way, this skews the Jedi way during the PT era, where matters of politics are given more attention than matters of the Force (I think it's no coincidence that the first PT Jedi we encounter are errand boys for a Chancellor who is operating outside his jurisdiction). They become more Bushido than Zen so to speak.

In the OT, we meet a Yoda who has learned from these experiances and tries to bring the Jedi back to their roots through Luke (infusing more spirituality, or Zen if you will), which he succeeds with (well, with a lot of help from Luke's own compassion).

My picture of the Jedi Order after ROTJ resembles that of the Samurai as the depicted in the Seven Samurai, with warrior-monks roaming the galaxy standing up for good causes but at the same time not being under the rule of any kind of government. Through Luke, the Jedi have now perfected the delicate balance between their Zen aspect and their Bushido aspect.

I don't think you can say that the Jedi way is an either/or situation. To me, it seems Lucas picked aspects from various Eastern beliefs and sprinkled it with aspects of Western beliefs (the power of love/compassion) to create a general belief system which would serve the story and be appealing to the audience

 

While I agree with most of what you said, the above portion struck me as a good point. I think you can see elements of many different spiritual belief systems, both Western and Eastern, in the Force, which I think was Lucas' intention. It was a way of inserting magic into the myth without being too specific.

I also see elements of Christian spirituality in Jedi philosophy, so I agree with yoda's waiter in that it is a mix.

 

Interesting points, though I think that Daoism can be ascribed with a lot of intentionality as well. If I understand it correctly, and I'd like to believe I do, there are many Chinese mystic practices that ultimately build on a conceptualization of Qi that is very close to how the Jedi think of the Force. So, Qi Gong allows you to fill your body with Qi from the Heavens and the Earth, acupuncture builds on the notion that it is possible to direct streams of Qi through the body, and Feng Shui is based on the notion that directing streams of Qi through your physical living space affects your well-being. So clearly, while Qi is the a basic force of the universe and doing things that go too blatant against it, it is also possibly to gently direct it towards a favourable outcome.

 

With respect to resemblances to Taoism, I'd like to introduce the idea that the Living Force resembles Qi (or Chi), and the Unifying Force resembles the Tao. The latter is kind of a field of potentialities, or possibilities that are assigned probabilities. Quantum theorists have likened it to the Schroedinger Wave Function.

Qi (or Chi) is more of a manifestation of the Tao, and thus closer to the Living Force.

 

Well, I will not claim correct knowledge of of Taoism, having only studied it in passing. Your points about Feng Shui, and acupuncture are well taken. While I think the Jedi try to live in harmony with the Force, they are not always gentle about it.

 

If you go by the Art of War by Sun Tzu, which is like the equivelent to the bible in Taoism, Then Jedi follow the way of the Tao. Sun Tzu stresses taking whole. First by avoiding destructive conflict(most if not all conflict is destructive in some way), and if it comes to violence then take whole by ending it with as quikely and with as little damage done as possible. Since the Jedi are "keepers of the peace" then it woud be interpretted taht they first try to avoid violent conflict. And their involvement with the clone wars was to end it as soon as possible with little damage done to the Republic and non-Republic systems. So I would say that the way of the Tao would best fit the Jedi.