Tenel Ka's birthdate/age... Help needed!

Help me TFN, you are my last hope!

I need the birthyear of Tenel Ka for an argument I have with my cousin. I say she is younger than the Solo twins. She says she is older even if only a few weeks/months.

I searched TFN and the net for days now for the answer. Which is proof in quotes. I even searched the books without success yet. Has her age ever been established aside from fan guesses and fanfics?

Both views are prominent among fans in every board I met. Some say she is older some say she is younger. What is it?


I'd like to get quotes from multiple sources, most prominently YJK and NJO. (with the exception of Dark Journey, which is in error about Jaina's age and thus might be in error too when claiming Tenel Ka is older than her)

I already talked to Nathan Butler about this and even he can't remember any instance where her age is given or an exact year of birth. But many fans in many boards do remember that she is younger or older. Now we need proof. Even wookieepedia is torn about this, listing the 10ABY date of a younger Tenel Ka in her article yet the discussion page featuring fans argumenting about it without quotes.


So please help me thx

 

Tenel Ka is probably a bit older than the twins. I don't know if that's ever been locked, though.

 

I always figured she was around the twins' age, within a few weeks.

 

any basic ideas which book might have had hints at her true age? which YJK book f.e.?

She is treated as if same age as twins most often, yet only direct age reference is Dark Journey I found, which might be in error considering it was in error about Jaina too (like many NJO books had age issues).

I found age references for Raynar, Lowie etc. but not Tenel Ka, which is weird. Nearly everybody else got a age distance relation to the twins mentioned in the YJK books.

 

jag is 2 years older than the twins so she could be close to the same age as the twins i use jag as a starting point for some peoples ages

 

I think general consensus (several years ago at least) was that because CoPL was before Zahn's trilogy, it was likely that she was older. I seem to recall some reference in the YJK books to her being older, but I haven't read them since they came out so I may very well be wrong about that.

 

AFAIK, there are no explicit mention of her age, or any reference from which we could derive her age.

 

From the Courtship section of the Essential Chronology (old one). vague but may be a hint. But too vague for me still! the Hunt continues!

 

considering 8 ABY had the last X-Wing books with Hunt for Zinsj and the events of Courtship then (not in first month of 8ABY) took a few weeks if not months, Tenel Ka can be born either late in 8ABY or early in 9ABY as earliest instance of her birth, which means she indeed is few weeks/months only older than YJK if this is true and close to their age.

BUT... the texts are vague and soon can mean the above example or also 2 years later. It is only mentioned that she is born to them, not that it is before the next section of the book begins. Thus, it still is in the open. But I give those credit who thought she was older. Yet, I still favor her as younger than the twins.

 

so early teens is still pretty vague but to mee sounds like 13-14, which means younger or equal to Solokids and not older, which would be 15 and would no longer be early teens but mid teens I think.

 

new evidence:


LOTF Invincible states Taryn & Trista Zel to be 10 years younger than Tenel Ka. They are born 20ABY and 18 years old in the book.

Thus using this date to calculate the approx. birthday of Tenel Ka, she is born in 10 ABY and would be 1 year younger than the Solokids. Or between half a year and 1 year younger.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, "about" ruins it.

 

Crackens Threat Dossier:

Teneniels rise to Queenmotherhood is said to be around 10ABY (and especially not immedeately after Courtship since marriage preparations and handing over the throne took some time with Taa chume still in power for the further New Republic negotiations). Her giving birth around the same time she ascended to the throne is said in NJO Dark Journey. So another point towards Tenel Ka being 1 year younger than the Solokids.

starwars.com Databank entry of Isolder also places Tenel Ka's birth after Teneniels ascension to the throne.

So wedding, 2 months after Courtship. Still before Thrawn trilogy. Teneniel is still a princess of dathomir and now Hapes there, not Queenmother yet!

So after their honeymoon I guess she got trained and prepared for her role as Queenmother learning about the larger galaxy and politics before her ascension.




Edit: Crackens Threat Dossier's Dathomir Reports were compiled several months after Courtship. They mention Teneniel Djo as Chume'la, wife and future Queenmother of Prince Isolder. Which also adds for a delayed throne ascension theory.

The book also recommends to have NR Intel Agents keep any eye out for Isolder and Teneniel so long she is not on the throne yet due to assassination attempts thx to Taa chume.

 

I don't have it to hand, but I recall mention of this in Dark Journey. Isolder tells his mother he could not leave his wife for a woman the same age as his daughter and Ta'a Chume tells him that Jaina is actually slightly younger than Tenel Ka.

 

She's a few weeks older than the twins, IIRC.

Of course, since her parents got together in 8 ABY, she had to be born ~9 ABY.

 

*sigh*

please read the above posts before you reply next time.

As I mentioned Dark Journey was in error about Jaina's age and might be in error about Tenel Ka's too thus. Also only because parents get together earlier does not mean she is older. Especially since other sources mention her birth concurrent with throne ascension of Teneniel which was in 10ABY after the Solotwins birth according to my above research and quotes.

I like it that you want to help, though. thx.

So she is still younger, we just need to find more direct proof. For me the above suffices already as proof that she is indeed younger than the twins by 1 year. But lets see if we find anything else to add to the above proof for all those still disagreeing or in denial.

 

TK is unlikely to be much more than eight months older than the twins, for the simple reason that the twins are conceived eight months after Dathomir.

But there are also some subtle hints that she's slightly ahead of them on the Academy curriculum - whereas the twins are supposed to be staying on Yavin in class in the early YJK, TK accompanies Luke on the mission in Shadow Academy, and generally seems more like she's already a one-on-one Apprentice (not to mention being old enough to pass credibly as his girlfriend!). Then, she's already out on a scouting mission at the start of Balance Point, which suggests she's being treated as a Jedi Knight when the twins are still nominally apprentices (even if one's AWOL and the other's put her training on hold to join the NRDF)...

So, I'd say she's probably a little older - absolute maximum, no more than nine months on a ten-month calendar...

CH, based on what you've advanced, it IS possible to argue it the other way, but I'd say it's a worse fit with the narrative text/characterization, which I'd ALWAYS prioritize...

Good catch on the Databank text, but I don't see this as clear chronologically (there's a paragraph shift from the topic of Isolder's marriage and its effects to the topic of TK -- and the succession stuff COULD even be read squintwise as saying that Ta'a Chume abdicated her powers but NOT her title immediately)...

... and I think the relative age to Trista and Taryn is probably fairly 'ballpark', too...

I'd need to find the Dark Journey quotes to comment more on them in detail, mind you!!

- The Imperial Ewok

 

I agree that Tenel Ka is ahead in her curriculum and that she was described as being a bit taller. Though the latter might not be relevant to her age necessarily. About her being ahead: The Solokids were explicitly said in multiple sources (guides and encyclopedias, factfiles, etc.) to be parttime only on Yavin IV, meaning studying part of the year spending the rest with their parents while Anakin Solo can go to Yavin IV once the Solokids are home. During the later YJK books, both are with Luke at the same time, too when Leia thought they were old enough to constantly train. And before the Solokids YJK days, as several guides also pointed out that I read today, they regulary visited the Jedi Praxeum with their parents and already studied as early as Crystal Star. though not regulary there.

The question is, since many sources are indeed vague, how multiple vague sources combined can give us a clearer picture (like with several vague references closing in on the age by mutually excluding other vague options).

For Tenel Ka and Luke's journey to Dathomir. I doubt it is unusual on Dathomir to have much older boyfriends. Thus she needn't be older for that. But her solomission in early NJO indeed was something that puzzled me. the other Rodian Jedi she journeyed with to Nar Shaddah, was he a Knight or Master or apprentice too? Might he have been her Master there?

PS: I tried to hunt down some old topics, but maybe you are faster than I am there. Do you still have your internal dating dates from X-Wing novels via Courtship to Thrawn Trilogy? Those might help pin down how many months older Tenel Ka can be, if she is older indeed. I just want to know, even if I prefer her being younger.

I also found old notes on character ages I had written down in my notebook while reading the YJK books. There, Raynar and Tenel Ka both I noted as 1 year younger than the twins. No idea why anymore, so maybe there is something in the text still to be found. Do we have Raynars age? Maybe she was related to that and not the twins somewhere. Hmm.. well, looking it up once I got more time.



PS: I intend to do some more indepth hunting for other characters too once I finished on Tenel Ka. So if anybody wants to know something, just ask and help .

 

checked Desintey's Way: Tenel Ka is knighted among the Solokids etc. so she was not a Knight earlier than them indeed

 

Tenel Ka was in the same class as Jacen, Jaina, Lowie, Zekk, and Raynar. Just as Valin, Jysella, Bazel Warv, and Yaqeel Saav'etu are.

I do agree that she was advanced for her class, just as Jacen and Jaina were. The Solo kids received training from Luke while they were growing up. Since Tenel Ka is the daughter of a Dathomiri witch, it's conceivable her mother and kin taught her some Dathomiri spells prior to her coming to the Academy.

How I miss the YJK times. That was when they were at their best and happiest.

Tell me something, CH - a part of you is hoping as I do that somehow, Tenel Ka will one day be able to turn the throne of Hapes to one whom she can trust completely and act as she had, then rejoin the Jedi and reconnect with her daughter. She's not one to abandon her duties lightly, but I got the impression that towards the end of her life, as much as Teneniel loved Isolder, she would have preferred being a Dathomiri witch to a Hapan queen and wished her daughter would avoid that fate for as long as possiible. And I think Tenel Ka enjoyed being a Jedi Knight more than being the Hapan queen.

 

Yub I agree there. I wish her to abandon the throne and live happily with her daugher and her favourite hobbies. Being a Jedi but also a dathomiri Witch. Reread all her NJO scenes today to check them for age hints. In SBS she was so cute flirting with Jacen... until Vergere pulled him aside just as she was starting to kiss him... so cruel. I want more YJK novels or Next Gen tales in between the existing tales.

And I already got a choice for replacement Queenmother: Taryn or Trista Zel with consort Zekk They are just perfect there and full hapans to boot. And Zekk always loved bossy women anyway




Sidenote: Does anybody know Raynar Thuls exact age or any hint at his age/sources? Cause in my old notes, I had him 1 year younger than Solotwins too, like Tenel Ka. Just no idea where I got it from for my old notes.

 

Checked the Wook, and it says Raynar was born around 9 ABY, which means he was born around the same time as the Solo twins. Unfortunately, neither I nor the Wook seem to know where that came from.

 

I have an educated guess: back around the time YJK got published, TFNs timetales placed lots of birthdays upon conjecture. Timeline Gold took many of them into its earlier versions and from there it flowed into the growing wook. No official guidebook had anything definite on that (checked them all by now for Tenel Ka, only a complete YJK readthrough missing so far!)

 

so, makes her younger definitely finally. though even a bit younger than I had guessed with 10ABY. So she was 12 when she enslaved Luke undercover on Dathomir and 14 on solomissions for the Jedi in the early NJO

 

I thought In dark Journy, in a conversation between Isolder and Ta'a Chume Tanel Ka was stated to be a few months older than Jaina, When Ta'a was trying to get Isolder to marry Jaina.