The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant ?

VADER: Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've
constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to
the power of the Force.

Huh ? What ? Where do we see that demonstrated ?

Sure, Luke destroyed the Death Star using the Force by exploiting a design flaw. (no one thought of heavy grating on the Death Star vent ?)

And sure, with the right methods a Force user could retain his identity after he dies. But thats the after-life.

With a Death Star, one could easily destroy many planets of Force users.

Thats insignificant ? Yee guds, whata hesa sayin?!

Comments ?

 

I don't know, I buy this particular line. First of all, I think that we have to consider the line in the context of when it was said. That scene establishes a clear difference between all the other Imperial higher-ups and Vader. It sets Vader apart as being someone who, while evil, was once part of a society of warriors with a code and a belief system--he's got a philosophy beyond 'The Empire'. Clearly he's been corrupted, but he's a lot easier to admire and respect, despite his villainy. Vader became more interesting in that scene (him and his sorcerer's ways.)

Second, he's only saying that the power to destroy a planet is insignificant WHEN COMPARED to the power of the Force. Which, considering everything that "the Force" broadly helps to bring about in the Saga, is not hard to believe. Heck, Luke uses the Force at the end of ANH to destroy selfsame "technological terror," which in my mind proves what Vader says. He turns off his targeting computer (the machine that's supposed to be necessary) and just goes for it. Without Luke there, the Alliance would never have been able to blow up the Death Star...not with Darth Vader taking them out one by one--and this is a guy who is the best pilot in the galaxy because he can USE THE FORCE.

Also, blowing up a planet is only significant if you're able to effectively leverage that power politically, which I don't think Tarkin was really doing. In the radio drama, for example, Vader protests the destruction of Alderaan. He says the Emperor should be consulted. This is merely conjecture, but Vader could realize that the Alliance can take the destruction of Alderaan and turn it into a pretty effective propaganda machine. Being able to blow up a planet does not guarantee victory for the Empire on any front, as far as I can tell.

And yeah, of course taking the statement literally it's easy to pick apart. No one in the Saga ever demonstrates a strong enough Force ability to blow up a planet. It does sound a little ridiculous for Darth to say that, but of course he is a crazy religious zealot. I think Vader's making a point about there being more to power than just brute strength...a little ironic, coming from him.

 

In the ancient days of the Old Republic, some Sith did manage to use the Force to cause stars to go nova. Just sayin'.

 

It was basically a self-fullfilling prophecy.

The Empire had the ability to destroy and planet...and did. However, they lost that battle and ultimately the war at the hands of the Force.

 

The Force can create planets. Can the Death Star do that?

As Spock would say: "As a matter of cosmic history, it has always been easier to destroy, than to create."

 

Its basically the riddle of steel from Conan the Barbarian. What is steel, compared to the hand that wields it? Okay, the Death Star can destroy a planet. So what? Using the Dark side, Sidious gained control of the entire GFFA. That same concept is repeated in the Zahn trilogy with Joruus C'Baoth, explaining that true power is taking over someone's mind.

 

Well, in the bigger picture from the eyes of Vader, the Force is much bigger than a planet or even the galaxy itself. It is life from where he is sitting. Vader appreciates the Death Star for what it can do, I'm sure of that, but he's looking at the bigger picture from a more abstract view.

 

You just think destroying a planet is awesome (literal meaning) because having the only planet you can live on destroyed is a terrifying prospect. The only thing that's really impressive about the Death Star is its energy output, and while he was good with machines, I don't think Vader is much of a physics-nerd.


That, or maybe destroying a planet, while terrifying to all inhabitants of one, is less effective at creating terror than the Dark Side. Which Vader then promptly demonstrates by nearly scaring whatshisface to death. Motti, was it?

 

The Force created the Death Star, but the Death Star can't create the Force. How's that for energy output.

 

i thought the Geonosians created the Death Star?

 

Well, in the bigger picture from the eyes of Vader, the Force is much bigger than a planet or even the galaxy itself.

When ANH was the only Star Wars, I initially felt that way too. But after 6 movies, nothing shows that the Sith were philosophical. Palpatine thought about a big picture in his schemes, but not about the big picture of the Force.

 

Riddle of Steel reference, nice.

 

I think this is enough proof that Sith can be philosophical at times. I mean, they do use the force and we're constantly hearing about the power of the Dark Side. I think that's as abstract as they can be. After the prequels, I think this line holds a lot more weight. Both Jedi and Sith respect the force for what it can do, only the Sith are a lot more outspoken which gives the delusion that the Dark Side is stronger. The seduction of it would be nothing if the Sith didn't sell it so well.

 

Well, the seduction of the Dark Side is the forbidden fruit nature of it. Also it seems to give the users something like a drug high.

 

"Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely"

As a concept, the Force is no different from any other kind of power one would have over others, the exercise of said power always runs the risk of being abused. The possession and use of such power can lead to a kind of "high" - being in control of others, getting your way over the objections of others, etc...This is why the US has a government with a system of checks and balances between the branches.

 

I always sort of thought that the Sith who used to be Jedi had more of a philosophical bent to them--I know the movies never really went into it, but Dooku was described as a 'political idealist', which suggests a somewhat philosophical nature. And then we've got Vader, ranting about the Force to a bunch of Imperials who frankly really don't care. But the both of them also had the influence of the Jedi philosophy, which (in a way) they twisted to justify what they were doing.

Darth Maul, on the other hand? He never struck me as having a particularly philosophical nature in the slightest.

 

But then again, the Force was seen by Palpatine as a means to an end...it was simply a tool. I think it's more reasonable to say that Palpatine was philosophical after the fact, in that he knew what he wanted, and could deceive others into doing his bidding by seeing the big picture and explaining it in a manner that got others to help him achieve his goals. It's much like Hannibal Lector, who while lacking any real humanity in himself, could nonetheless read others with amazing clarity. My favorite line from Silence of the Lambs was when Star says "You see a lot, Doctor. But are you strong enough to point that high-powered perception at yourself? What about it? Why don't you look at yourself and write down what you see."

 

Darth Maul, on the other hand? He never struck me as having a particularly philosophical nature in the slightest. tongue


Yeah, the extent of his philosophy was, do I kill now, or after lunch, heh.

The Sith couldnt philosophize too deeply, or like Hannibal Lecter, they would have to go totally insane. At least the Sith didnt eat their victims. (AFAIK)

 

In a lot of ways, I think Vader respected the power of the Force more than Sidious did; as it has previously been said, it was just a tool for him. His Dark Side seemed to be more of an object of interest than the Force itself (which, ironically, was a branch of the Force). Sidious wasn't much of a alchemist. He didn't care much for becoming stronger (as far as I can tell), he just wanted more literal power and a tighter grip over the galaxy. Vader wanted this too, but I think he was a bit more down to earth. He wasn't working from birth to sway the Republic into turmoil and build an Empire like Sidious was. I think he respected his roots a lot more. He might hate the Jedi by the time we first see him in "A New Hope", but his tool is the Force itself and he realizes that this is something that he shares with them. The Force is a very strong thing to him, which leads me back to my original point in this thread.

As for the argument that Darth Maul didn't have a philosophical interest in the Force, I'm afraid that we don't know enough about him to argue on way or another. I mean, he did have a life outside of what we saw in "Menace" and he was obviously an educated man by the few lines that he did speak, but I wouldn't scoff him off to be a careless brute. As for his outlook on the Force, we don't know.

 

Yes, but unlike Vader, Maul was raised from birth to believe in the Dark Side. When someone like Sidious is feeding him this stuff from day one, how different could he be from his master, individual personality traits aside...

 

Actually I believe that was Raith Sienar, sorry to get down to the nitty-gritty.

In response to the OP-The Death Star can destroy planets but the force (the dark side-but it's still the force) can actually create hyperspace wormholes (by using Force Storm).

 

Palpatine used the dark side to utterly blind the entire Jedi order and orchestrate a fake war in which he was able to gain control of the whole Galaxy.

Is the real power the ability to destroy something, or the ability to control it?

 

How about "A flower make me"?

 

IMHO, true "power" in the universe (real or otherwise) is contained in one's ability to create. Sure we can find ways to control things, but who cares if you can't make new variations?

 

The Dark Side is all about control and Sidious used it to take control of the Senate, the Jedi and ultimately the whole galaxy. I guess it could be said that that type of control exceeds the ability to decide the fate of a planet.