The Ancient Sith Empire on Arkania and pre Great Hyperspace War conflicts of Expansion

Most curious am I about the Sith-Arkania connection. I know it's old by now that they have this nice Sith library and that once the Sith Empire reached till there... but:
1) WHY there and no further expansion if they were not trapped by the Caldera back then?
2) WHEN? and how did they get reduced to just the stygian caldera again?
3) HOW did this relate to Jedi/Republic/Sith encounters/wars pre Great Hyperspace War?

The Jedi found/destroyed it only after the Great Hyperspace War, so was Arkania unknown till then or just hid its dark secrets well?

So, what nice Sith reached past the Stygian Caldera and conquered space as far down as Arkania? Or are we lead to believe they create a huge library of their secrets on a far off world at the edge of their explored space close to Jedi space? I doubt it. What I do not doubt is, that some Sith left the caldera to conquer the galaxy, but instead using the routes the republic blazed back then, they moved slow in between them in what later would become the Daragon Trail right past Yavin. Though that'd have them cross republican spacelanes like the one connecting the major routes through Obroa Skai, a major republican asset! So contact can not be excluded. The simple way is out of the window.

So where does that leave us? A group of Sith expanded, left the caldera and moved toward and through republican space. Maybe it is just a major war we did not know about yet, but maybe not. Not only republican but also Mandalorian/Taung Space would have slowed their advance towards Arkania. And with these powers in between their home and their colony on Arkania, it seems impossible to keep the supply lines straight. Maybe the Sith Empire in the Caldera exiled a group of Sith or they fled certain execution and brought with them many secrets. Following the Daragon Trail they ended up on Arkania and were restricted to that world without spaceflight. Mostly miners there, they did their alechemy thing and built the library. Only later during the Great Hyperspace War would Naga Sadow find them and use their knewfound knowledge and the library until the Jedi destroy it post-war. Though Sadows forcs take some knowledge back to Sith Space and the Sith Emperor of TOR?

Thoughts?

 

Good question really, it seems to me that the Sith were not entirely limited by the Caldera and had managed to branch out somewhat outside Sith Space. Really, Arkania is not that far off from the Core I think so they did not get pretty close. But it seems that their expansions were a bit sporadic since it seems to be almost random worlds outside the Caldera whilst almost everything within Sith Space was theirs. Pretty much as you said really. It seems strange that such an important library world would exist so far from the confines of the Sith Empire's territory. I think it was Tales of the Jedi Companion that established Veeshas Tuwan as existing on Arkania and that it was a library of Sith lore.

But the reason why they couldnt go any further? No idea, its possible that since hyperspace travel relied on a beacon system in that period I think which might have limited their capacity to travel far. Perhaps as mentioned, they faced opposition from someone else such as the Mandalorians. Another alternative is perhaps the library on Arkania was developed by the Exiles Sith Lords that left during Ajunta Pall's age. I think Jedi vs Sith said that some among the new Sith Lords wanted to get vengeance against the Jedi and left despite the objections of their comrades. Once out, they were defeated and the Republic/Jedi became aware of the fact that the Exiles still existed and now ruled the Sith Empire but did not know where it was. So maybe some survivors managed to develop the library? Really, it kind of proves that the Caldera was not this impenetrable barrier for the Sith and that some expeditions were perhaps capable of leaving. Many after all managed to break through and enter Sith Space such as some Tapani which I think is mentioned in the Lost Tribe of the Sith ebooks.

Anyway, the text doesn't really say that the library was ever lost. It only said that it was destroyed by Jedi Masters post-Hyperspace War era. Plus, its said that the destruction of the Sith Empire also opened up many worlds to the Republic so perhaps that once the Empire was defeated in Sith Space, the territories outside the Caldera such as Arkania became opened to the Republic and Jedi Order who decided to continue wiping out any remnant of the Sith.

 

I've always wanted them to explore that Sith library more in a story some day. It's surely got a nice history behind it--probably along the lines of what you've said.

It also makes me curious what other later Republic worlds may have formerly been touched by the original Sith Empire? To take an extreme example: Mon Calamari isn't far from Arkania, nor was it discovered by the Republic before the Great Sith War either. Who's to say that places like that weren't also part of a wider Sith Empire at some point? Until perhaps there was an internal civil dispute prior to the Great Hyperspace War that resulted in them retreating back inside the Caldera again?

I'd love for one of these more recent Republic acquisitions to show up in the Sith territories in TOR or something. It'd be fun to delve into Arkania's ancient backstory.

 

Good question.

My interpretation was that the Sith Empire was more a colonial or tribute based Empire than a expansionist one. That is, Sith ships would leave the Caldera, sack a random planet, and then make the planet pay tribute to the Empire so that it doesn't happen again.

On more rebellious worlds, or worlds with rare resources or an important location, the Sith would leave a garrison, fortress or fleet to make sure they payed their tribute to the Sith, and that they acted in the Sith's best interest, but did not try to assimilate the planet outright.

Additionally, the Caldera might be...dangerous, but not suicidally so. Ships can pass through to attack and plunder, but it is too unreliable for constant trading, or for steady communication for any colonies or conquests outside the Caldera.

Rather like how sea travel used to be pretty slow and dangerous. Sure, it didn't stop people from trading and raiding all together, but really overseas expansion did occur until several important advancements in sea travel technology had been achieved.

 

good points there. I especially like the exiles of Ajunta Palls age that returned to fight the Jedi. Would work fine.

Now about limitations in space travel: Arkanians are known for genetic tinkering, mining and such stuff. They are second only to Kaminoan cloning around the Clone Wars. And several species were known to have been genetically engineered or altered by the Arkanian scientists and genticists. The question remaining is, WHEN? because I see Arkanian genetic knowledge might be inherited from Sith alechemy that originally studid everything like creation of monsters. So if Arkanian gentech evolved only after the Hyperspace War, fine. If it existed already before that, or even before the Sith arrived we have some new questions to answer like how/when they altered some species and how that relates to Sith presence. They mostly altered Outer Rim species around the Corporate Sector or Sith Space as far as I know from older maps by Modi.

 

I agree

the Sith inside the Caldera might have been kept in the dark while their Emperor/Dark Lord of pre Hyperspace War times explored the outside with "other" Sith.. like new recruits or trusted agents sent outside. Thus two separate worlds of Sith that would ensure the caldera Sith's safety and allow for exploration. Akin to the TOR Emperor and Revan who got turned and used as expansion agent with a separate Sith Empire.

though I like the Exiles that left Ajunta Pall idea and would like to see that conflict and in addition some survivors of that conflict settling on Arkania and later absorbed into the proper Sith Empire.

 

I like that system of expansion. it works well with what we know of the Great Hyperspace War comics different sith Lords and their territories.

 

I always Arkania became part of the Sith Empire during the reign of Adas's Sith Empire. We know that after he died, with the technology the Infinite Empire provided, the Sith expanded to worlds like Ziost (which was made the capital because of all the war on Korriban), Malachor V, Arbra and Tund (sort of). From The Essential Atlas in this picture here I had assumed that Arkania was also one of those planets they colonized. I think that Adas's Empire would have expanded a long way, perhaps beyond the Stygian Caldera because there was no Republic they were in risk of coming across and they had no idea of any other Empires existing. They had just defeated the Infinite Empire, I would say they thought they were invincible at this point. I'm getting a bit too carried away with my assumptions there, but still, its something to think about. I mean they colonized Malachor, which was out of the Caldera, why not Arkania as well then if it is unlikely for them to do so during the reign of the Dark Lords. And then most of the planets outside of the Caldera were lost to time perhaps, much like Dromund Kaas was (even though that was inside the Caldera), maybe Arkania staying remembered because of its library. Perhaps the reason they didn't continue to expand beyond the Caldera was because that it was just easier to keep track of systems close by, and certainly by the time the Jen'jidai arrived it would be to keep out of the way of the Republic.

Yes, I think that after Adas's death and the defeat of the Infinite Empire, the Sith went from inhabiting only Korriban to bursting out in a wide range around that, settling on various planets, some close by - like Ziost, some not - like Arbra and Malachor (and according to my theory; Arkania). Over time the Sith settlements centered more and more around Ziost and the Stygian Caldera to the point where a lot of the outer Sith planets were lost, only a few remembered. And then later on with the Dark Lords in charge, because they did not have intentions of coming into contact with the Republic again (at least those of Ajunta Pall's state of mind) they almost completely forgot about some of the planets beyond the Caldera, maybe because they did not find them in all their expanding because of fear of coming into contact with the Republic, the planets existence never reached the ears of the Jen'jidai, the planets no longer served a great purpose, or perhaps they were swallowed up by the Republic.

I can sort of imagine the Sith Empire in fast-forward like an exploding flame. That is, it expands rapidly perhaps causing some things to light on fire that it touches in a large radius (eg. a lot of planets in a wide radius), and then it goes back down to the center (Stygian Caldera) burning everything within a much smaller radius while the small fires it lit in its initial explosion slowly burn out to only leave a few still burning (like Malachor and Arbra and possibly Arkania). I don't think I am explaining this well so hopefully you understand what I am trying to say.

Anyway, that's my theory.

 

a very good point there and evading all troubles the other theories still have, hmm.. you might be on to something here

maybe then Arkania was a waypoint of the original Jedi Exiles and through the library there they found Sith Space in the first place including a way past the caldera?

 

Thank you I quite like MercenaryAce's idea of a tributary system with the Sith at times leaving Sith Space and pillaging planets before returning back home to the Caldera. It kind of adds to the whole "Sith bogeyman" vibe that seems to be within the Tales of the Jedi comics where the Republic worlds seem to believe the Sith to be a myth used to frighten children.

Not only that, it adds to that whole old world sea travel concept which I always pictured in that era. That space travel was difficult and there was a wide use of hyperspace beacons due to the potential of being lost etc etc. My own view is that after defeating the Rakata, the Sith used their newly acquired space travel capabilities to colonize the entirety of the Caldera and after the arrival of the Exiles, they had potentially found a means of escaping the confines of their territory though it was a kind of 50/50 type thing in that some managed to leave whilst others got lost or destroyed in the attempt. But thats just my view.

I have always personally assumed that to be the case as well. I mean not only was Arkania a Sith world but the fact that its natives developing genetic engineering seems to indicate that they inherited this trait from the Sith who were known to had bioengineered races through alchemy. Like Zor, I wouldnt mind seeing this being tackled in the future in some way.

 

Atlas p. 127 The Great Hyperspace War Map:

An old hyperlane connects Coruscant via Shawken, Arkania, Telerath up to Taris from where it leads to Mandalore which sits pretty close to the Daragon Trail if not on it.

The Sith might have used parts of that route, leaving the proto-Daragon Trail near Mandalore and move down between the proto-Perlermian and proto-Hydian Way to reach Arkania. Though that'd lead them still through Republic space. Yet with the tribute system it might work, if Arkania itself was a minor world on said route and thus their forward base to control the outlying tribute payments from inside the Republic yet unnoticed. Sith kinda like Anzati-Shadows manipulating instead of invading.



Another point may be that maybe Arkania is one of the strongholds of the Jedi Exiles before their Exile while they fought against the Jedi. Sadow rediscovered it and used their ancient library that the Jedi had not found back then.


many good ideas in this topic. Hmm.. what else could we tie into this topic to get enough material to request an official article about it? O

Lord Arkoh Adascas experiments with Space Slugs in KOTOR comics reminded me of a potential past of the Space Slugs that ties them to Arkanian genetic experiments or Sith Alchemy. There might happen to be more Slugs around Arkanian Space than in other parts of the galaxy probably? Have to check my Space Slug Lore for more intel first.



some short summary of ideas and connection possibilities between them:

After the Rakatan Empire, King Adas colonises a lot of worlds across the galaxy without connecting space in between (Tund, Arda, Arkania, Malachor, etc.) these colonies later are forgotten and lost.

Jedi Exiles happen to use some of these coreward worlds in their fight against their Jedi brothers before their Exile, maybe even corrupted by them. They add to the Adas Era library and hide it from their Jedi brothers. Via the knowledge of the former Adas colony world Arkania, they find Sith Space when they are exiled.

Some disagree with Ajunta Pall and return to wage war with the Jedi and loose, retreating to Arkania perhaps or dying before the Jedi find their library.

The Sith Lords of Sith Space re-instate the Adas tribute system long after Pall is dead and some leave Sith space to make it happen. Ghostly menace. Tribute system collapses some time before the Great Hyperspace War. Sadow leaves and once again finds Arkania and uses the library until the Jedi destroy it after the Great Hyperspace War.



Now I want to write a Hyperspace Article... if only the powers decide to let me one day

 

now Jedi vs. Historians reminded me of something

Sith Holocrons that can claim the soul of someone who smashes them. Akin to Exar Kun corrupting his followers with Sith Spirits/Gatekeepers in TOTJ.

1. What happened there? Sith spirits / gatekeepers taking over the bodies? just visual representation of the people being corrupted/mindcontroled? because if the first, I wonder how much the personality of the gatekeeper will be preserved or if a merged being will be the result or just a corrupted one.

2. I imagine the Sith Historians corrupting several Jedi with that method before they can destroy everything... minor Dark Jedi / Jedi conflict then errupts possibly on Arkania before the Library can be destroyed.

3. maybe the Jedi Exiles found the library and brought stuff to the Jedi Temple or Ossus for study... and got corrupted by it like that? Or the traditional way. Countless ways to fall.. why should we decide for one, if not all.

have to check again what the TOTJ Sourcebook of WEG said about that technique

 

Another factor that might be of relevance is perhaps the Crucible from the KotOR comics. I believe they are said to pre-date the Golden Age of the Sith and also used defeated populations as conscripts and slave troopers. So maybe they were responsible for the raids outside the Caldera? Another thing is also the Temple of Pain which was secretly constructed by Valik Kodank. Wookiee doesnt list when this was done but it seems that she fled there at the end of the Great Hyperspace War though construction predated that so it seems to suggest that some Sith attempted to build fortresses and temples outside their territory.

On the corruption aspect, the TofJ Companion said something like that in regards to Sith talismans in that after they discovered Jedi were using their own tools for good, they began creating ensarement talismans designed to corrupt Jedi and turn them to the dark side by simple use. So perhaps such a thing was possible with the holocrons as well. Its even said that the Jedi Order destroyed various Sith items but with some of them, only the dark side was capable of destroying it and with such items they simply hide or threw into hazardrous locations in the hope they would never be found.

I really wouldnt mind if someone made a Hyperspace article called say "The Golden Age: The Sith Empire" or something like that which consisted of a series of articles that encompass the ancient Sith and their Empire. Everything from their pre-Rakata times where they were various nations ruled by Kings that were brought together by Adas to their space age where they became a big empire and all. Things could include the members of the Sith Council on Ziost to their military etc etc Would be cool to see. Come on everyone, together we can work together and rule the galaxy like father and son! uh I mean, as fellow board members and rule the hyperspace articles

 

aaaah aha... now that is interesting. The Talisman work well with our theory. have to check again on the temple thing but would also fit I believe.

thx for throwing the Crucible in! They, like the ancient Genoharadan Assasin guild are very mysterious ancient organisations. And the Crucible as Sith Enforcers would work well. Wonder what JJM would say about this. Maybe originally, if someone could not pay tribute enslavement by the Crucible was the next step. Later then payments grew less and Crucible turned full scale to enslavement when Sith roots were lost to history.

Do we have a prime base location for them yet including map placement? I think not. Might fit into that area of space for sure.

 

Ooooh.... Crucible = Collectors operating at large; Sith = Reapers still waiting inside the Caldera? I like it.

 

Why thank you very much. And about the waypoint for the Jedi exiles could be very possible.... perhaps the same with some other outer Sith planets too.
On the topic of other Sith strongholds/planets, what about Prakith, it was in the core, and we know that Darth Andeddu lived after the Hundred-Year Darkness and from what we know about it him it would seem he might have lived before the Great Hyperspace War. So, if this is true, Darth Andeddu found his way out of the Caldera to the deep core during the period before the Great Hyperspace War. Arkania is sort of on the way to the deep core, he could have even used it to get there.

I would very much love a Hyperspace article that encompassed all of this sort of thing. I find the Ancient Sith be be the most interesting aspect of Star Wars.

And I very much like the idea about the Crucible! There are a lot of loose ends surrounding the Ancient Sith, these ideas would at least tie up some of them.

 

Yeah Darth Andeddu is ancient enough to be that old. Xoxaan and Karnis Murr were part of the Hundred Year Darkness and of the Exiled Jedi that followed Ajunta Pall to become the first Dark Lords.

To make sense of Andeddus Darth title I'd say he was part of that group, too and that HE was one of those who returned to fight the Jedi. Yet his fortress in that conflict became Prakith and he and the others were defeated. Among those defeated returning Sith their worlds, Prakith, Arkania and others will stay untouched by the Jedi.

 

He unified them, exactly; not they corrupted him. That's what still potentially makes him different to those before him. He didn't discover and was then corrupted by the Old Sith Empire; he founded his own New Sith Empire and rallied followers to his New Sith banner. By contrast, both Kun and Revan found and were corrupted by Nadd and the Emperor respectively. As things stand though, Ruin turned on his own accord without someone else needing to tell him to run along and go reform the Old Sith Empire, as he just took their beliefs to create his New Empire. In that respect, I see him as akin to Krayt: a pretender to those before him, whose dogma he's cast aside as a failure.

So in a sense I see a succession from the [Adas]Ancient Sith->[Exiles]Old Sith->[Ruin]New Sith->[Bane]RoT Sith->[Krayt]One Sith.

Though, as I said in the other Sith Empire thread, my faith in them keeping Ruin and the New Sith something unique diminishes with each day. I can fast see a time approaching where they just throw out any wish to differentiate in any great way between the Old-pre-Ruin and New-post-Ruin orders. At which point, yes, I imagine we'll end up with what you say: just one great big Sith Empire that went all the way from inception until Bane blew it up.

 

Hmmm, perhaps but it has to fit in with why he went to Prakith, which was because he was paranoid that the other Sith Lords would try to steal his knowledge, and he was said to be a Dark Lord on Korriban. So I was thinking that he would be one of the Dark Lords after Ajunta Pall and Tulak Hord (assuming that Ajunta Pall was the first Dark Lord and Tulak Hord was the second), which could still mean that he could have been a Dark Jedi exile due to his powers, but I find it a little unlikely. He also studied Karness Muur in order to prolong his life.

If he WAS one of the Sith that left it would mean that he would have proclaimed himself a Dark Lord on Korriban before he left to attack the Republic and the Jedi again, which was during the time Ajunta Pall was still alive as Ajunta notes the Dark Jedi that left Sith space to fight the Republic with some Massassi in Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force. No, I don't think it is likely that Darth Andeddu was part of the Jedi exiles, it doesn't really fit with his story in my opinion, or if it does fit its a bit of a stretch. There has to be another reason for how Andeddu got to the deep core. I still think he may have used Arkania as a stepping stone to the deep core, maybe just like the Emperor in SW:ToR he just did a series of random hyperspace jumps in desperation to escape the other Sith Lords and came across Prakith. Yes, I would say Andeddu was a Dark Lord who lived after Ajunta Pall's and Tulak Hord's time.

In fact, he could have even lived during the Great Hyperspace war and could be the Emperor himself, which would explain why Revan and Malak have Darth titles. And then after the treaty of Coruscant we know the Emperor retreated from the war to pursue his own mysterious goals, maybe he fled to Prakith to keep his secrets of eternal life hidden. But then that wouldn't make sense as the other Sith Lords though Andeddu was dead due to his tomb on Prakith.

Anyway, sorry, I'm getting off topic.

 

I still can't decide what I want out of Andeddu. I'm too much of a traditionalist in still wanting the Old Sith Empire to not have used the Darth title, but now that Revan and Malak were crowned by the Sith Emperor, that all but confirms the Emperor will himself be a Darth. Currently, I'm still hoping that the Emperor becomes the first one to use it, and I won't be surprised for them to choose to do that as a way for them to instantly elevate him to a higher status level in the history of the Sith.

Given what little we can piece together seems to suggest that after Sadow's fall a bunch claimed to be Dark Lord, until Darth Emperor arose and declared himself the leading Dark Lord, that points to me that the Emperor is almost a Bane figure, just he didn't kill off all his fellow Dark Lords, but simply declared himself to be the top dog.

Whether Darth existed before that though? No clue.

Having said this, I won't be surprised if all the Dark Council are Darths, so that'd neuter the idea that the Emperor claimed it for the reasons Bane talked about: a challenge to all the other Dark Lords. (Given Drew wrote the Bane books though, who knows, maybe he actually will have got the scriptwriters to work that idea for the Darth title into the story?)

If that was the purpose of the Darth title, then I'd previously hoped for Andeddu to either be someone in the 5000-4000 gap--as I don't think there's anything that necessarily precludes the possibility of other Kun or Revan protoinvasions. The idea that's being suggested of Andeddu being one of the first group who returned down the Daragon Trail back around 7000 BBY shortly after the Hundred Year Darkness? I actually rather like that idea. If Ajunta, XoXaan, et al simply were content to sit around on Korriban ruling their new kingdom, but "Andeddu" stood up, announced that he was the top dog, the Darth, that the rest were cowards, and proceeded to run back to beat up the Republic?

That'd still be rather fitting for the general description of the Darth among Dark Lords being the one who challenged the status quo.

 

New things on the library on Arkania. The Essential Guide to Alien Species notes that it was made in 7,000 BBY so it was made during the years of the Hundred-Year Darkness. So that means either was it constructed by the Exiles, abandoned and rediscovered by the Sith or, the Sith Empire managed to locate it and claimed it as part of their empire.

Another note, its said that the Rakata had a unique hyperdrive system that was based around the Force. What if, initially, the Sith managed to use this system and thus stumbled on Arkania?

 

nice find, big thx for letting me know.

So the Exiles theory gets more foot and the King Adas one can be retconned but looses 1 point of many. Hmm... still enough possible and we were close

 

Why did the Jedi/Sith use modern lightsabers and broadswords prior to the invention of protosabers?

The answer : bad continuity.