The Battle of Geonosis - a massive tactical blunder beyond recounting.

Though I am already a member of a number of forum websites throughout the mighty internet, I lack a place to pour my thoughts on perhaps one of my favourite topics - Star Wars. Since I don't have the internet time, however, to come to these boards and become highly engaged, I thought instead I would write a few threads here and there focusing on issues of great concern or interest to me - and one of them was the battle of Geonosis.

First, to summarize what we can confirm happened. Roughly two hundred Jedi enter. Perhaps a couple dozen leave. The only notable separatist loss? One moderately successful bounty hunter who'd already outlived his purpose and a load of scrap metal that could probably be melted down and reconverted into more battle droids.

Does this strike anyone else has the most appaling tactical choice ever made by anyone in the history of time? The Jedi are a limited resource, take a great time to train, and operate best as elite agents rather then massed soldiers - putting Jedi into ranks only make them appealing targets, wheras placing a single one into a mass of lesser rank-and-file men turns them into a fighting force greater than the sum of their parts. With a war brewing, to lose almost two hundred of their force of only a few thousand at the outset for basically nothing (And that's not even counting the moral perspective, considering as Jedi they were the most noble of souls and certainly didn't deserve to be wasted thusly) is a terrible shame.

If it was their intent to capture or kill Dooku, they did a terrible job at it - basically utterly failing to surround him at all, or do anything to prevent his escape (Really - only sending Mace Windu?) that either means they were far, far too overconfident and lost their forces due to a complete lack of planning, or their real objective was the rescue of two their number and a senator.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the general idea of a rescue mission is to save your allies in the hope of bolstering your own forces. Ideally, you don't lose anyone, but if the only way to save two men is to lose more then a hundred and fifty, this is what is known as 'weighing the consequences'. Though many might think it evil or at least dishonourable and ignoble to leave their friends to suffer and die, it is by far the greater evil to waste so many other lives just for them. Throughout the clone wars countless Jedi die (and practically every death can be found in full detail thanks to the ridiculously expansive EU) and there is no mass sacrifice to save them.

Admittedly, I know the real reason, as I'm sure many of you do - it makes for a cool scene. Everyone wanted to see a mighty Jedi army kicking ass and smashing some droids, but the effect this scene has on the setting and the plot from the perspective of a viewer is confusing. You begin to question wether the Jedi are all they're cracked up to be if they've either been A) obviously tricked into a deathtrap or B) so bad at their plan as to screw it up and lose a bunch of people in the process.

Had the movie clarified some, and made it very clear that Dooku had laid a trap - perhaps with some appropriate villainous plot expositions - then sure, it'd be a bit more admissible on why they'd take such heavy losses, but as it stands it just comes off as a massive blunder.

Also, considering how individually powerful the Jedi seem the rest of the time, and how rare and significant a death is, one would think to lose so many so fast would have been more visily shaking to the survivors. Obi-Wan still qualified it as a victory later on, when I was half-expecting everyone to be wearing black arm-bands and speaking in hushed tones.

Just a thought, to be honest. Something to consider.

 

Yes, I certainly agree that sending the Jedi to Geonosis was a very risky choice to say the least. However, I think it would be safe to say that the Council didn't exactly want to wait for the clones to arrive to Coruscant, and sending Jedi to investigate was their only choice. If they sent mercenaries or bounty hunters, the results would be heavily biased and they might not get the whole story.

 

But certainly, a tiny group of maybe a few of the better Jedi to commit a stealthy plan involving breaking in and escaping quickly would have been wiser then their other plan. Heck, it would have been better to have sent NO ONE to Geonosis, they won NOTHING of any tactical significance until the Clone Army was ready, and they suffered staggering irreplaceable losses.

 

Roughly two hundred Jedi enter. Perhaps a couple dozen leave.

More like 50 arrive and a dozen leave. However, you make a good point. The purpose of sending the Jedi into an arena was essentially sending them into the lion's den. They were easily outnumbered and surrounded. What did they accomplish? They saved Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padme from certain death but at the expense of countless lives. The whole thing is rather absurd but pales in comparison to the stupidest rescue of Han Solo in ROTJ.

 

I think it was supposed to be two hundred, but I haven't watched AOTC in a while.

 

It was 200 hundred Jedi in the arena. Only about 20 leave.

 

Read Shatterpoint.

 

Well, there weren't 200 Jedi in the film. But anyway, why send 200 Jedi into that situation? It's like sending 200 snipers into a war zone - a real waste.

 

Had the Jedi not intervened on Geonisis:
Anakin and Padme would have died.
Luke and Leia would not have been conceived.
The Rebellion would have been destroyed by DS I at Yavin IV.
Palpatine would have run the galaxy into the ground.

Yet, these do not address your tactical concerns.

It was a gamble. Send everything you have to stop it before
it begins.

 

They did not go there to rescue Obiwan, Padme, and Anakin. Heck, they didn't even know Padme and Anakin were there. They bravely went into battle to attempt to stop a war from happening, and had no idea what they were up against. "You're impossibly outnumbered." "I don't think so." See? They were blinded by the Dark Side, went in all half cocked, and lost a lot of Jedi.

 

remember they excecuted an attack on a droid control ship

 

Yeah...

This was surely an attempt to nip the entire war in the bud. It failed.

"This is just the beginning!"

Ironically, in the sequence between Yoda and Dooku, it seemed that BOTH characters had "much to learn". Dooku still had to learn (and never did, of course) that violence wasn't a solution and Yoda had to learn, well... a similar thing. It can also be argued - however much more empathetic a character this makes him - that his saving of Anakin and Obi Wan reveals an attachment he was supposedly trained against. Yoda was in the more morally sympathetic position but Dooku was in the better tactical position: he knew that the Sith were on the rise and the Jedi on the fall. Yoda was still as blind to the Sith plot at the end of his duel as he was at the start.

Geonosis ended badly for the Jedi, that's for sure - and in more ways than one. Not only did they lose some of their own but they only saved themselves by leading CLONES to die in battle. So much for their virtuosity and respect for all living things. Geonosis was a very messy situation and Lucas wanted us to know it. It truly was the beginning of the end.

 

I disagree. The Jedi were blind-sided. A trap was set for them and they walked into it. Sidious ruined their "surprise" by letting Tyranus know the Jedi were coming. Dooku had thousands and thousands of battle droids waiting for them. If not for Yoda, all of the Jedi would have been killed. As it was, they killed over 100 Jedi and started the Clone Wars. This just shows how good Sidious is. He's put himself in a position to be one step ahead of the Jedi at all times. The Jedi were forced into no-win situations by the Sith time and again. The Jedi never recover and are nearly wiped out as a result.

 

Dolash posted on 10/21/05 8:19pm

---

But certainly, a tiny group of maybe a few of the better Jedi to commit a stealthy plan involving breaking in and escaping quickly would have been wiser then their other plan. Heck, it would have been better to have sent NO ONE to Geonosis, they won NOTHING of any tactical significance until the Clone Army was ready, and they suffered staggering irreplaceable losses.[hr][/blockquote]

True, true. However, they didn't know what they were facing. A small group of even the best Jedi couldn't possibly wipe out thousands of battle droids all at once.

On the other hand, sending no one to Geonosis might've been a good plan, but curiosity certainly killed the cat.

 

I was just watching AOTC and I think one could reasonably assume that theres a hundred or so Jedi in the colliseum, though this is just my last inmovie inspection. Which made me think of something. Why didn't the Jedi find some way out of the arena? I know they were quickly becoming surrounded but why go in there without an exit plan (a, b, c)? That's what boggles me. Cool scene though.

 

Look at it this way: the galaxy has known peace for a thousand years, with the Jedi being the guardians of said peace. I doubt Mace and Co. expected an army prepared to meet them.

 

Dolash posted on 10/21/05 8:19pm

---

But certainly, a tiny group of maybe a few of the better Jedi to commit a stealthy plan involving breaking in and escaping quickly would have been wiser then their other plan. Heck, it would have been better to have sent NO ONE to Geonosis, they won NOTHING of any tactical significance until the Clone Army was ready, and they suffered staggering irreplaceable losses.[hr][/blockquote]

Agreed, however, the Jedi would run into trouble in the capturing of Padmé, Anakin, and Obi-Wan. They were tried up in the center of an arena, which was a good move in the defense of Count Dooku an the Geonosians. They would've died either way.

 

Well, remembering the book's explanation, the Jedi didn't expect to find the droids, only the Geonosians, and they had the ability to win that fight. It wasn't the fight they found. Bad intelligence.

 

Well it looked like a blunder, thanks to Yoda he was able to arrive at the right moment and put things right. Otherwise that would be the end of the main jedi's. And Mace obviously had the plan with Yoda formed.

 

Well they had to go otherwise the chosen one would die

 

it didn't help that palpatine knew their every move!

 

I believe Shatterpoint touched on this, but you can understand their errors just by watching the movie. The Jedi at this point are peace keepers and negotiators, not soldiers. They say as much several times throughout the PT. This wasn't a military take over so much as a police action. They dropped into the Geonosian Arena much the same as the Jedi seem to take on any task. Step into the middle, take control of the situation, and trust in the Force to guide you. In this case make a significant show of force by spreading the Jedi throughout the Arena and confront the leader.

Unfortunately the Jedi did not realize at this time that the Dark Side was blinding them. They didn't know there was an entire army of Battledroids waiting beneath the arena to take them out. They still thought this was a rescue operation and not the opening gambit meant to lead to full scale war.

 

Bad intelligence.

In more ways than one.

 

To me the biggest plunder was not sending the Jedi to rescue Kenobi, but whoever the idiot was who decided to be the first to jump into the arena. Get Kenobi, Skywalker, and Amidala and split. Don't sit around for a thousand droids to come at you. Duh. They all could have jumped out of the arena and gotten out. Most of the droids were on the arena floor, get out of the damn arena!

But nooooooo, they all wanted to fight the droids. Yoda was right, they were arrogant.

 

And how, exactly, were they supposed to get out? Clones were coming in from all the entrances, and their ships probably left already. There was really very little chance for escape there.

Yep - its true that the Jedi only expected to see Geonosians there. What they had hoped to achieve would be to capture Count Dukoo then and there with no fight at all.