The character of Mace Windu. Did Samuel Jackson degrade himself taking the role?

The question which I'm asking is fairly obvious, but for some the answer might be completely different to mine. For me, the character Mace Windu is two-dimensional and devoid of life. He might look cool ocassionally, but so did Morpheus and Neo in Matrix Reloaded and when you have characters that are boring that coolness wears off eventually. Should I care that he is going to die in Episode III? Of course I won't. I cannot understand what qualities Mace Windu has that makes some people like this character. Perhaps some of you can enlighten me?

We all know how desperate Samuel was to have a role in Star Wars but perhaps he should of read the script. Samuel deserved a much better thought out character and while the character might not be important at this stage, that is no excuse for such a two-dimensional character. He must of accepted anything just to get a role in Star Wars.

 

I think this thread has degraded itself.

strilo edit: Posts like this are uncalled for and unacceptable.

 

I like the character so my answer is no.

 

Topics with question usually require answers unless they are rhetorical. If you don't like a topic then don't post witty comments to up your post count.

 

I didn't post it to up my Count, I posted because the title of this thread left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

I cannot understand what qualities Mace Windu has that makes some people like this character.

Well, personally he's not one of MY favorite characters in the world (though he and I share the same taste in colors ), but there are definitely a boatload of Mace fans.

Here's why I think he gets so many fans:

(1) He's a badass. Okay, yeah, this doesn't come across in TPM much, but AOTC showed him laying down much 0wn4g3.

(2) He sort of represents the Jedi Order's conception of the ideal Jedi. Strong, noble, quiet, reserved, dignified... conforms with the Order's ideals (unlike some people, *cough cough Qui-Gon cough cough*). This is the sort of man the Jedi want to bring up. A cross between a monk and a warrior.

(3) As performed by SLJ, we get the sense of Mace as someone who is very powerful, but at the same time really humble about it. He doesn't show off, or act flashy, or even act like he's the final word on everything. Instead, he keeps himself to himself, stays reserved... but, like a tiger or panther about to pounce, even as he keeps perfectly still, and calm, and even, there's a sense of something larger just waiting to be unleashed.

This is not particularly TPM-based, I know, but I like how he acts in AOTC... his usual firm but reserved self, then suddenly kicks butt six ways to Sunday in the arena, and then, once the fight is over, back to the quiet, reserved, concerned conversationalist in his last scene with Obi and Yoda.

No muss. No fuss. No self-congratulation or even celebration on his part. It's just business as usual for Mace Windu, keepin' his cool and watching the bottom line even under extraordinary circumstances. That's what he does, and he does it well, and that's all there is to it.



That's a start, anyway.



Rick McCallum loves you!

 

Latorski, especially given your sig, I would love to hear more in-depth comments from you about Mace.

As for purple lightsabers though, I think we can all agree that TEH BANSABER is a FAR more attractive shade of purple, no?



Rick McCallum loves you!

 

Adam, you pretty much summarized my feelings about the character. I don't really have a lot to add to what you've just said, but here goes...

Personally, I'm not so into the "badass" stuff because I think there's more to Mace than that. (Darth Maul is a badass, as are Jango and Boba and ANH Vader.) But I do like the fact that you take him seriously before you ever see him fight. You immediately know he's not to be trifled with, but he also seems like someone who'd rather use his brain, instead of his lightsaber, to fix a problem.

I see Mace as something of a philosopher and a warrior. But he's neither bookworm nor gung-ho soldier. (As opposed to Yoda who's closer to philosopher and Anakin who more of a warrior.) He's a balanced Jedi who can "do it all." He knows it but isn't insecure like Anakin. (He reminds me of a war college professor or medical school instructor.) He's serious and studious, but also a man of action. I even have the feeling that he gets a little bored sitting on the council with the endless talking and would rather be on a mission somewhere. He's likeable and friendly but not interested in b.s. or wasting time.

That said, I think SLJ gives the character the requisite air of authority and confidence. He's someone you immediately take seriously and, if you're his student, fear his displeasure. He has a terrific physical presence and body language that's imposing but not necessarily threatening (Jango might disagree), because he's still, after all, a good guy.

Here's a thread I started last week. It's meant to be silly, but I tried to make some real world parallels about his teaching style in my first post.

 

I've liked the idea of Mace being the warrior philosopher, but then I also liked the idea of Yoda being the monk-tutor, and not a fighter. My .02, FWIW.

The character is a little one dimensional in TPM, and I do think it's a strength of AOTC that we see a bit more of his character (and, from what I've seen, we get still more in Ep. III). This is an instance of TPM benefitting from the later movies, as now I have a better sense of who the character is when I watch TPM.

 

I personally hate the character of Mace. It is partially because I hate Samuel Jackson but mainly because I think Jackson's acting has been terrible.

 

I like the character of Mace Windu, however I do agree that thus far, he has been two dimensional at most. I think it was meant to be that way to an extent since he embodies all the power of the Jedi, yet all of their arrogance as well (His lack of belief that the Sith could have returned in TPM). When you have a three film trilogy, there really isn't alot of time to develop every character as well as drive/develop the plot. We haven't even began to know Anakin, Padmé, Palpatine, and Obi-Wan up this point 100% either, so saying time is restricted would be an understatement.

 

I'm not all that fond of Mace Windu. I don't hate him, but I don't exactly like him either. Jackson's delivery of many lines just feels a bit flat for me, more so in AOTC than in TPM. In TPM, he comes off to me as rather unimportant but being one of the three of the Jedi Council to speak solely because he's Jackson and asked for a part, not because Mace is important. Maybe if more than three of the Council spoke, Mace would have seemed more of a leader of the Jedi than he does to me.

And one thing that really gets to me, Mace always looks angry to me, which seems very unbecomming to a Jedi for me. We already got Anakin to give us loads of anger.

 

Personally I thought it was cool to develop another high ranking jedi to the likes of Yoda for the PT. Mace is a good character to add to the background of the story. My disappointment comes from him along with the rest of the jedi council not getting fleshed out more. But I guess the story isn't about them so much as it is about Anakin's perilous journey to the darkside.

I do agree with some of you about Jackson's portrayal of Mace as dull and the use of bad dialogue. However, I think most of the blame should be placed on Lucas on the direction of his character. I don't think its Jackson's inability to act.

In TPM I thought he and the rest of the jedi were very underused in favor of commericalizing the movie for the kids, hence Jar Jar. But thats a totally different topic altogether!

But thats just my two cents.

 

I don't think that SLJ degraded himself taking the role, because although he's been in some critically aclaimmed films like Pulp Fiction he's also be in some pants too.

 

"I personally hate the character of Mace. It is partially because I hate Samuel Jackson but mainly because I think Jackson's acting has been terrible."

Yeah, Samuel Jackson, Natalie Portman, and the Yoda puppet are the only things I don't like about TPM. I can actually tolerate Jar Jar more! Not too crazy about SLJ's attitude, either. Trying to get his way all of the time. "I want to be the only Jedi with a purple lightsaber!" "I want to go out in a blaze of glory!" If I were Lucas, I'd have McCallum come after him and say, "George calls the ******* shots around here!" Windu is overrated.

 

i think mace is one of the few new charcters that works. the jedi council without mace is like the millenium falcom without han. his clam attiutude, and bold courage were desperatly needed in AOTC.

 

Mace doesn't feel calm to me, he feels uninspired.

 

I don't really like Mace very much. Like others, I don't HATE him, but he just seems to be there because of SLJ. Had Jackson not taken the part, I doubt Mace would have been near as important in at least AOTC as he was.

 

Samuel Jackson does very little to make Mace Windu a compelling character. But I guess that might be said of other actors in the saga as well.

After reading Shatterpoint, I like Mace Windu a lot. Stover does a great job bringing out a philosophical perspective of Windu.

 

I think Sam Jackson is a great actor, one that changes his appearance in every film to blend in with the character he is portraying. I cannot stand him as Mace Windu. It sounds like he's just going through the motions...he has so much talent. I've seen it. GL should have given him a bit more control of his character considering his previous accomplishments.

 

One of the things that GL is trying to do w/ the development of Mace is have a high ranking Jedi that dies. We know that Yoda and Ben, and from cpov Anakin survives. However we need to see a few Jedi, especially high ranking Jedi die.

Which is what Mace is. It has been speculated that the death of Mace will be the symbolic end to the Jedi Order.

 

I don't think Samuel Jackson degraded himself, I think he degraded "Star Wars." When they started announcing some of the casting decisions for TPM, I got really worried. The OT was a masterpiece saga, and I think it benefited greatly from having a cast of relative unknowns who brought no baggage to their roles. When they started throwing in Oscar caliber actors in the PT, I feared the worst. And I hated that Lucas gave Sam Jackson a role solely because he was a fan of the films. I'm a fan of the films (probably a bigger fan than Sam), where's my role? Does that mean that any actor can jump on the SW bandwagon if they pledge allegiance to George?

When I finally saw the film, my worries disappeared. Liam Neeson was great--while I still remain partial to the OT, Qui-Gon Jinn has now become the Jedi against which I measure all other Jedi. In one film, he truly embodied everything I thought a Jedi stood for. Natalie Portman, while sleepalking her way through AotC, carried her weight in TPM. Sam Jackson, however, seemed to struggle in a few areas: his line delivery was very forced--every time he spoke I felt like I was watching the hundredth take, like the mood and spirit of the scene had left him and he just wanted to say his line and go home. And those close-up looks of pension and consternation look like something I'd expect to see from an amateur soap opera actor. But his non-action role in TPM concealed his worst ineptitude: he can't swing a lightsaber to save his life! Neeson, McGregor, and Christensen all looked like naturals. Those guys are Jedi! Even Alec Guinness had more coordination. Sam Jackson [in AotC] looks like an actor standing in front of a blue screen swinging at nothing. Everyone was asked for the same performance, but the other guys looked convincing, and Jackson did not.

There is a ton of debate over how cool Mace Windu is and how much substance he has. I think Sam Jackson could have made a lot more out of the role, regardless of script limitations or anything like that. Sidney Poitier--now that's who should've played Mace Windu. That's an actor/Jedi Master who just naturally emanates wisdom and mystique. But as it stands, Sam Jackson/Mace Windu is not on my list of the best things about Star Wars.

 

He's the Billy Dee of the PT.

 

I have to say that having SLJ be in Star Wars hasn't hurt his movie career if you think of all the movies he's been in since doing TPM.

 

What others see as 'boring' and 'uninspired' I see as calm, and emotionally controlled. Lucas gave his actor's few directions I'm guessing, but for each Jedi character, I think that direction was standard.
As we are not used to such characters, even in movies that are supposed to be depicting that, we seem them as stiff and reproachable.
He was an emerging character in TPM. As such he needn't do, nor say much. His character would come forward later. All he needed to be was 'there'.
I like what I've seen of Mace thus far.
He's calm, and controlled, but not beyond being a friend to others. This is shown with interaction with Yoda, and Obi-Wan.
He's not flashy, full of self bravado and again, we're not used to characters like this. Such characters are always potrayed a certain way typically and Mace didn't take the character that way.
But we've also seen when it's time for business, it's all business. He's very serious and focused.
Also, despite being calm and controlled, we get a sense from both Yoda and Mace in AotC that they are royally pissed off with Dooku seeing as harsher emotions are leaking out as much as they are. I found that fascinating.
But of course, that's just me.