The Emperor knew as I did that if Anakin ever had any offspring.., How does this work now w/ROTS?

In ROTJ, we know that Obi-Wan said to Luke: The Emperor knew as I did that if Anakin were ever to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him

So now that we have ROTS, how do we now view this statement by Obi-Wan to Luke? Let's also realize that Obi-Wan was coming clean with Luke at that time with the truth, so we cannot categorize that this statement was one of Obi-Wan's famous "certain point of view" type lines.

When I think of this line by Obi-Wan versus what transpires in ROTS, it does not quite fit what we saw in the film. First of all, not once do you ever get the idea that Palpatine is the least bit concerned about Anakin having children. His primary thought was gaining Anakin as his new apprentice. I think it would be a huge stretch to say sure he was concerned because he knew that Anakin was married to Padme.

Secondly, by all accounts it appeared that Obi-Wan was not concerned about Anakin possibly having children, because for one he seemed as though he had just confirmed when meeting with Padme before going to Mustafar that she was pregnant with Anakin's baby.

Thirdly, to be honest, the person who actually focuses on concern for the twins and their destiny in regards to the Emperor and the Sith is that of Yoda, because it is he who suggests that they must be hidden.

Fourthly, Obi-Wan's line from ROTJ suggests that he and Palpatine even before Padme and Anakin conceived children, that they had learned of their marriage, and that because they were man and wife no doubt they could possibly conceive children that would likely be strong in the Force, that either could become an ally to the Sith, or a threat. But we know full well that this was not the case.

Lastly, not only did it not appear that Palpatine was even concerned about Anakin possibly having children, I ask the question did he even know that she was pregnant?? I am sure that the answer will be from many that surely through the Force as he learned that Padme and Anakin were married, surely he learned from Anakin's thoughts that Padme was pregnant. Hmmm.., now that would be quite a stretch as well.

Darth Sin!

 

Looks like you take everything Kenobi says extremely literally. In the ROTS novel, Yoda said she still needs to look pregnant to make it appear as though her unborn child/children died with her. And in the actual film you can tell they made it look like she was still with child in the casket. Obi-Wan is no dummy, he knew how the Emperor would feel about Anakin having kids alive.

 

Have you ever thought he knew that she was pregnant, but maybe they were to die along with her?


Doesn't sound like a strech to me.

 

I interpret it as the emperor knew of her pregnancy and was responsible for her death using some sort of dark force mojo. This would explain why the droids couln't find anything really wrong with her. He needed to kill her so kids would be moot. He assumed they died with Padme. Even if he didn't know she was pregnant, he would still want her dead so they couldn't have kids in the future and then overthrow him...he didn't feel he had to worry given Vader's condition. Obviously Vader wasn't enough to do it or he would have between III and IV or even during the OT.

 

I love the way you all stray from the subject in a very subtle way. But that is okay. You have to take this literally, because what says here is straight up and there is no certain point view stuff here in his words.

Obi-Wan said, The Emperor "knew" as I did, that "if" Anakin were ever to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him.

There is nothing figurative here in these lines. The key words in this statement are knew and if. Yes, we all know Obi-Wan learned that Anakin had children, but Palpatine did not know, so clearly it would not be something he would be concerned about. And let us say he learned that she was pregnant when she died, he certainly would not be concerned about Anakin's offspring, because he would believe they were dead also.

The statement makes more sense had Palpatine and Obi-Wan both learned that Padme was pregnant, and we had seen Palpatine become disturbed by learning this, and then we hear and see his pleasure not only in having Anakin as his slave, but that Padme and the child(as supposed)was dead.

And again, when you really consider Obi-Wan's statement in ROTJ versus how Obi-Wan in ROTS learns about Padme being pregnant with Anakin's child, you have to admit it just does not fit correctly. Does it destroy the films? Of course not! But this statement declared that Obi-Wan and Palpatine needed to not only have learned earlier that Anakin and Padme were married, but that also they were expecting and they both became mindful of the child(ren)to be born, especially after Anakin turned to the dark side. Or if nothing else, maybe not them learning that they were expecting children, but at the least learn that they were married and they became concerned with them possibly having children through the Force possibly. In other words, they would have foreseen them having offspring.

Darth Sin!

 

Your analyzing this too much, as the beatles said, "let it be".

 

The line of dialogue is fine. In fact, it is much like what is said in TPM.

Qui-gon: "Who was his father?"


This line makes it clear that Qui-gon is considering for a moment that a Jedi fathered Anakin, based on his connection to the Force. Taken in connection to what Obi-wan says to Luke and what Luke says to Leia, the Force runs strong in families. Anyone who has a child they will 90% of the time be Force sensitive. This is why Obi-wan and Yoda do not do a Midichlorian count on the twins and why Palpatine knew that any offspring would be a threat. They can be a threat based on their power in the Force and the fact that the two will fight over the child. Also you must take into context that Anakin was supposed to be the most powerful of all Force users. Well, he has two children who could be just as powerful. That is a great threat.

VADER: "What is thy bidding, my Master."

SIDIOUS: "There is a great disturbence in the Force."

VADER: "I have felt it."

SIDIOUS: "We have a new enemy. The young Rebel who destroyed the Death Star. I have no doubt this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker."

VADER: "How is that possible?"

SIDIOUS: "Search your feelings, Lord Vader. You will know it to be true. He could destroy us."

VADER: "He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him."

SIDIOUS: "The Force is strong with him. The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi."

VADER: "If he could be turned, he could be a powerful asset."

SIDIOUS: "Yes, yes. Can it be done?"

VADER: "He will join us or die, Master."


The Jedi gambled that Sidious could've known about the pregnancy and so to protect them, they were hidden and Padme was made to look pregnant. But they knew that Sidious knows about Jedi/Sith having children who could become Jedi/Sith.

 

I'd say that Obi-wan is making an assumption that the Emperor would have viewed the offspring of Anakin to be a threat. I don't think this assumption is a great leap of faith. Anakin's son happened to be very strong in the force and guess what? He turned out to be a threat. Not to mention the dialog that DS posted. I don't think we need a shot near the end of RoTS with Palpatine shaking and sobbing out of fear of Skywalker children to connect the dots.

Carnage

 

I agree with Carnage04.

Anakin?s children are dangerous to the emperor. They have great force potential and a strong bond with Vader.

 

i dont think Palps was that worried at first because he had vader...but when vader got injured i think he would have been a bit concerned...

 

Because, Anakin knew Padme was going to have a child. That child would be a reminder of everything that was good in his life until he made his choice.

 

Also, don't forget the scene with Yoda and Sidious. Sidious makes it clear that the Skywalker line has the potential to be more powerful than him. It is perfectly feasible that Yoda related that to Ben. Hence they make Padme appear pregnant at death. Sids later figures out that the child survived. It is obvious Vader and Sids did not specifically know of the children until the OT. Otherwise Vader would have known earlier, but he doesn't. "Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me." Not everything needs to be spelled out, that's what inference is for.

See DartnSin, It's all there, but you have to look at things analitically, not critically. You always seem to be trying to see the bad, errors, holes etc. "Your focus determines you reality." Look for interpretations and you'll find them, look for mistakes and you'll see those too.

 

Sweetcurse, believe me when I say that understand what you are saying here, and know that I have been a huge Star Wars since I was a kid. I am not looking for the negative or the bad, but actually asking a genuine question here when it comes to the films.

I love Star Wars, and the films are excellent. However this particularly line from ROTJ for me does not seem to fit with what transpires in ROTS. I bring this out not for myself, but for those future new viewers who will watch and hear this very important integral line in the film.

I don't feel as though I am over analyzing this, but rather just posing a real question.

I say again, Obi-Wan states this line as though he knew that the Emperor like himself had considered the possibility of Anakin ever having any children and what it would mean to the Emperor and his rulership.

You truly have to admit that the events in ROTS do not really match this line from Obi-Wan in ROTJ. Obi-Wan says, "If Anakin ever had any offspring....." To say if ever about someone, it implies you have a potential future expectation of something they may or may not do. When watching ROTS, this really is not the case when it came to Anakin having kids from Obi-Wan or Palpy.

Of course we can say sure this was a consideration and concern for Obi-Wan and Palpy after they each learned about Padme being pregnant, and of course Obi-Wan actually sees the twins and helps hides them. But as far before this occurred, in the film neither Obi-Wan or Palpy has given this a thought.

However Sweetcurse I will take your words to heart to make sure I am not trying to find potential errors, mistakes and plotholes. I love Star Wars too much to become one that tears it down.

Darth Sin!

 

Palpatine wanted Padme dead. He knew that Anakin's descent to the darkside hinged on such an occurence.

To think that Palpatine had the insight to see the natural relationship between Anakin and Padme (and the strength and meaning behind such a relationship) but, after knowing this, failed to acknowledge the possible affects of whatever children might come along the way in such a union is utter nonsense.

Palpatine was not going to allow Padme to live any longer than he had to and he was going to make quite sure that any child she might be carrying be met with the same fate.

Look at it this way: If Palpatine deemed it imperative to kill all the Younglings, then he certainly would have believed the same course of action to be ultimately required with any child of the most powerful force cognizant being in the galaxy (Anakin).

As it turned out, the situation fell almost perfectly into place for Palpatine as placing the death of a pregnant Padme directly onto Anakin's shoulders was enough reason for him to completely turn away from his past as Skywalker and truly become the sinister Sith Lord that Palpatine so desired. Two birds, one stone...almost.

 

The "If Anakin had any offspring" refers to not just in ROTS, but in general. Any child of a Jedi/Sith will have that ability passed on to them. Now go with the fact that Anakin has the potential to be incredibly powerful and you've got two children, well it isn't rocket science. Obi-wan is speaking about general terms, not a literal moment. That doesn't mean that Palpatine did or did not know of the pregnancy. What it means is that both men knew what it could mean for both the Jedi and Sith Orders, if the Chosen One had a child. Much less two. The Jedi might have a chance of taking out the Sith.

 

I say again, Obi-Wan states this line as though he knew that the Emperor like himself had considered the possibility of Anakin ever having any children and what it would mean to the Emperor and his rulership.



Hmmm, I wonder if Obi-Wan or Yoda ever considered the possibility that Anakins offspring would become evil brats ?

 

Right. It's too bad GL cut the scene from ROTS when Yoda, Kenobi, and Bail discuss hiding the children from the Sith. Then it is even clearer that should Sids find out about them, that he should be worried.

 

Why? No one is born evil. Just as no one is born good. We just are what we are. A tiny life that is waiting to be filled. It is how you are raised that shapes who you are. The Lars and the Organas were good people. Both Jedi knew the Organas very well and Obi-wan has Anakin's opinion of the Lars. There is the possibility of their turning evil, but the same could've been said of Obi-wan and Yoda, when they were younger.

 

That is why it was nice to have two. If one had inherited the deranged power hungry psychopathic gene from their father, perhaps the other wouldn't have. Actually, it's a arguement for nature vs. nurture. Some siblings grow up in the same household, same parents, share many of the same experiences yet end up radically different. One is the kind, caring, successful type and the other is an evil thieving scheming jerk. It was entirely possible that Luke or Leia would be evil - Yoda and Obi-Wan were counting on Qui-Gon being right that "Love is the answer to the darkness." And why not try it? After all, A large jedi army wasn't.

Carnage