The Forceful Afterlife? (The fate of the Jedi Ghosts, Non Jedi Ghosts and Normal People)

Okay, we know that certain Jedi can retain their form and mind after death, but what about certain non force sensitve people, or even non ghost Jedi? Would people of strong will and compassionate minds and hearts; like Padme, Bail Organa, heck even Mon Mothma be allowed to retain their form? Its entirely possible in my view for every individual to retain their identity in the force because they become "waves" in it. While some of these waves maybe able to manifest, that doesn't imply that those who die without ghosting simply are obliterated from exsistence becoming primordial force soup or end up as Dahgoban swamp frogs.

Surely all living beings are equal in the sight of the force. Sure, some may not be able to physically manifest, but I find it hard to believe only a few certain sage like Jedi masters can experience a true "afterlife" while billions of innocents do not.

I'm trying to remember some canonical examples of this, please correct and add to those I list.

The brother and sister royals who die when Luke confronts Flint. Only one of them was presumably to be taken and trained as a Jedi, yet BOTH of them appear before Yoda. True, the force runs in families, but certainly there are some siblings who are force sensitive while their brother/sister are not.

The "force ghosts" of a galactic tyrant on a planet liberated by Mace Windu. He kills the warlord, and Mace proclaims that while he may have ended his victem's lives, he did not end THEM (they surround him in this frame). He then stabs the tyrant through the heart. Kyle Katarn's father also was NOT a Jedi and yet he reappeared to Kyle in the valley of the Jedi.

Ulic Qel Droma, who was forcibly (har har) stripped of the force entirely, was able to disapear into the force. This implys that one does not need to have any "connection" with the force to become an independent part of it. Note what is unique about Ulic is that he does NOT reappear to any Jedi for all time. This shows that not all those who truely become one with the force must "return" in order to "prove" their exsistence.

Qui Gon Jinn was able to become a force ghost WITHOUT his physical body disappearing. This shows that one doesn't even need to vanish into the force to retain their own personality in the afterlife.

Perhaps most telling is the last words of dying Brand. He boldly proclaims that he, and ALL of the Jedi who went before him will prevent Palpatine from returning, which is evidence that Jedi do retain their identities regardless of ghosting, but they may not be able to return to the "land of the living" the way Qui Gon does. Some "waves" are clearly stronger than others.

Finally, the Sith have shown they can retain the souls of Jedi and Sith in certain devices. Nadd, Kun, Malak, Sidious etc did this. Their souls take the shape of individual people, yet when the are release they disapear, implying they become one with the force regardless of force affiliation. HOWEVER, there is very clear and concrete evidence that those in the thrall of the darkside succumb to eternal madness and suffering (with one possible exception Ajunta Pall).

That covers most bases, is there any more evidence of ordinary people appearing in form of force ghosts to others?

 

Ulic Qel Droma, who was forcibly (har har) stripped of the force entirely, was able to disapear into the force. This implys that one does not need to have any "connection" with the force to become an independent part of it. Note what is unique about Ulic is that he does NOT reappear to any Jedi for all time


Didn't he appear to Anakin in Clone Wars?

 

Qui Gon Jinn was able to become a force ghost WITHOUT his physical body disappearing.

Is he a true "force ghost" (in the same sense as Obi-Wan et al.), though? He seems able to only manifest his voice. I'd say that while he did manage to preserve his identity in the Force, Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Anakin have some special separate connection (related to the disappearing, perhaps) that allowed them to appear physically as well.

As to non-Jedi, is not reappearing as a ghost that terrible? I believe all Jedi are said to "become one with the Force" (also, "There is no death, there is the Force"), whether they disappear or not. The special thing about Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anakin is that they've retained their identity in the Force. Which suggests to me that everyone else, while not retaining their distinct identity, still do join the Force and become part of one big universal consciousness. They don't disappear from existence, just become part of the greater Force. It's the special guys who get to linger as individuals for a bit and pass on their wisdom.

 

I think the two aren't mutually exclusive, I'm just trying to figure out the forceful "afterlife" based on the evidence we have availible. And since the force works through everyone to some degree, it applys to non Jedi as well.

 

Didn't he appear to Anakin in Clone Wars?

If I remember correctly, that was a hologram projector imbued with his Force aura.

 

Qui Gon Jinn was able to become a force ghost WITHOUT his physical body disappearing. This shows that one doesn't even need to vanish into the force to retain their own personality in the afterlife.


That isn't fully explained yet. GL has said MANY times it will be explained in ROTS.

 

Note what is unique about Ulic is that he does NOT reappear to any Jedi for all time.

When the game featuring the dark reaper weapon search during the Clone Wars came out, there was a disscussion about this. It was said that initially you see a hologram of Ulic, but then later on Ulic's ghost actually talks to Anakin.

 

That's certainly possible, but couldn't it also be possible Anakin was just remembering what Ulic told him? The scene cuts away as Anakin said he's ready to learn how to defeat the Reaper. Plus, that would be nearly 4,000 years between his death and his voice. Kun survived by imprisoning his spirit through Sith Alchemy. Sith Lords are seem able to survive in spirit form so long as they are near their material remains (Ragnos Ajunta and Nadd). We were told Obi Wan couldn't keep guiding Luke presumably because his "time" was ending.

 

Yeah, but it part of the Sith to hold on to what they have and the Jedi realise that life is fluid and nothings stays as it is.

 

We do have the case of Master Vodo Siosk Baas. Yes, in Dark Apprentice we see a hologram of him. However, it's not a hologram we see help take down Kun for all time in Champions of the Force. Master Vodo's ghost came back to the mortalplane to help defeat his former student. Which is a case of a Jedi spirit appearing more than four thousand years after their death.

 

I got the impression all sentient beings became "one with the Force" after death. If the Force binds all things, it stands to reason every part of it ultimately has the same destination.

The only death-related advantage of a Jedi is the ability to retain their identity for a certain period of time before eventually moving on like everybody else.

At the start of Heir to the Empire, Obi-Wan suggests there's some sort of "next stage". Whether this is simply returning to the force, or a more tangible afterlife, is anyone's guess.

Next week on Stating The Obvious with HappyBob:
Why the Dark Side probably isn't all that great for one's health.

 

Okay, just looked up the Tales story and it appears to match from what I remember.

Mace is told about this murderer's actions by the victems themselves (in full on force ghost mode), and they actually surround and witness the duel between this killer and Mace Windu.

Also, there is information about Atton Rand was origionally slated to become a force ghost at the end of KOTOR II but it was cut. Since one does not have to train Atton to be a Jedi (he can just remain a force sensitive) it contributes to the idea one doesn't need Jedi training to ghost, only to become visable.

"I got the impression all sentient beings became "one with the Force" after death. If the Force binds all things, it stands to reason every part of it ultimately has the same destination."

Agreed, but its nice to have some more concrete examples of non force using individuals being seen in their ghost form. Apparently, only servants of the darkside suffer the "madness beyond death", and in certain circumstances it is capible of being redeemed from this state, i.e. Ajunta Pall.
Darth Sidious is screwed though. Every Jedi that ever lived is making sure he can't return, ever.

 

Speaking of a force afterlife, I always thought that a force user entered the afterlife they created for themselves. Yoda and Mace would be in a heaven of sorts, everything all peaceful and everything. Dark users like Palpatine, however, would go to the "madness beyond death" created by their very own darkness full of hate, anger, etc.

 

That's perhaps a part of it, but there is a very clear distinction in fate drawn between being disembodied in the lightside of the force rather than the darkside.

Ajunta Pall was one a Sith Lord lost in this madness, yet Revan was able to redeem him. This implies if a Sith Lord is repentant, they are able to go to the "other place".

Most disembodied Sith Lords though are actively seeking to find a way to return to life, and resume business as usual. Thus, it doesn't seem likely many Sith Lords would take Ajunta's action.

 

I thought a Sith spirit was a Sith who had not been killed completely so in essence he was not sent to the madness. You would think the madness would make anyone repentant.

Besides the whole idea of a Sith Spirit as opposed to the Jedi ghost, seems to be that it is the Sith afraid to move on to the next part of his destiny so they become these spirits desperatly trying to avoid the madness.

I remember reading somewhere that Obi-wan and Yoda directly intervene on Anakin's behalf allowing him to become a force ghost since there is no way that he could of learned how to become one.

 

I'm not sure where you heard that, but its wrong. Don't worry about it.

Wait until Episode III, I must to explain.

The real reason for force-ghosting has already been explained to a certain extent.

 

When I read the final space battle in The Unifying Force, I sort of imagined Ackbar's spirit looking on. Don't ask me why, but I just got that pic in my head as I read it.

--Adm. Nick

 

IN X-Wing: Requiem for a Rogue, we see Dllr Nep and the Bith female pilot(her name escapes me right now) as Force ghosts at the end. They were just normal people.

 

Oh? Now that's interesting.