The friendship of Anakin and Palpatine..

There has been something on my mind for a while now. In the films and various PT era novels, we are shown glimpses of the friendship of Anakin and Palps. By the time of ROTS, they have known each for 13 years or so. I wish more of that friendship was shown. There are so many unanswered questions and lines of thought that haven't been truly explored.

For starters, the Jedi trained and raised Anakin, but when did Palps start "molding and shaping" to the person Anakin came to be later in life(AOTC, ROTS, etc..?) Were the Jedi cool with the whole situation, or were some the Jedi having hesitant thoughts about it and didn't act on it?

Any other thoughts or viewpoints on the matter would be sweet. I'd like to see what others think of friendship of Anakin and Palps.

 

Given that Mace was a fan of Palpatine up until ROTS () , and Obi-Wan even suggests that Anakin elicit Palpatine's advice in LoE, I'd say they were cool with the situation.

And if Palpatine hadn't been a slimy, duplicitous Sith Lord, I'd say the relationship might've been genuinely helpful to Anakin.

 

Yeah, Anakin needed a role model, and Palps didn't fit that profile because he was trying to manipulate the young Jedi instead of help him.

 

It's interesting. AOTC and ROTS informs us that Kenobi is not at all enamored with politicians; for all this, he grants Anakin the freedom to amble his way into the sphere of the preeminent politico in the galaxy. My own pet theory is that this was both an act of indulgence and alleviation of guilt. Early on, Kenobi must of seen the effect that Shmi and Qui-Gon's absence had on the little boy, but couldn't find a means for amelioration. He knew he was no proper surrogate?-he hadn't Jinn's compassion?-and was forbidden to allow any visitations from Mommy. So what's his recourse? Why, handing him off to someone who was more nurturing. A friend. A sweet ol' grandpa, who believed in Anakin the moment they met.

I bet the kid came back from his monthly office-visits with a spring in his step. ?Master! The Chancellor said I was the most special boy he ever met!? Kenobi probably smiled and played the accolades down...till Ani hit adolescence with a bloated ego.

 

"I'll be watching your career with great interest.." -Palps, TPM.

I think from that moment on Palpataine started molding a friendship with Anakin. It could've started off innocent; showing him around the Senate and his office and explaining politics to Anakin. I know by the age of 14, in outbound flight, Anakin already respected him.

I don't know how the Jedi felt about it. Obi Wan tells Anakin in AOTC that Politicians are not to be trusted and the council has always seemed a little suspicious of him. But I think they let Anakin make that decision, like others said he desperately needed a role model and Palpataine kept him a little more grounded during his youth.

 

Good thoughts y'all. I'll have more to say later on. I'm about to have a snack .

 

Genius.

 

I agree completely. Palpatine doesn't just tell Anakin that he's going to be a great and powerful Jedi, oh no. Anakin's going to be the best. The following lines really show us how Palpatine "shaped and molded the person Anakin came to be", as rumsmuggler said.

PALPATINE: And so, they have finally given you an assignment. Your patience has paid off.
(in other words, we both know this should have happened a long time ago)

ANAKIN: Your guidance more that my patience.

PALPATINE: You don't need guidance, Anakin. In time you
will learn to trust your feelings. Then you will be
invincible. I have said it many times, you are the most
gifted Jedi I have ever met.

PALPATINE and ANAKIN turn away from the window and walk
through PALPATINE'S office towards the door.

ANAKIN: Thank you, your Excellency.

PALPATINE: I see you becoming the greatest of all the Jedi,
Anakin. Even more powerful than Master Yoda.

Invincible? More powerful than Yoda?? So many people chalk up Anakin's arrogance in AOTC to him being a rotten person, but I have to disagree. Over and over again, Anakin is told - by someone he values as a father figure and mentor no less - that he is better than everyone else. More powerful than everyone else. "When you reach your full potential, no one will be able to touch you." On top of that, I'm pretty sure Anakin knows about the prophecy. Wasn't he brought into the Order with the expectation that he had unlimited Force potential, and would someday "Bring balance to the Force"? On the other hand, you have Obi-Wan, who always seems to be chiding Anakin for his mistakes. "You're not ready for that yet, Anakin. Why don't you listen to me Anakin? You messed up again Anakin." I'm not saying that Obi-Wan should go around kissing his behind, but I can see how Anakin would compare what Palpatine is telling him with Obi-Wan's approach as a master. Let's compare the lines above with this dialogue from the "confession scene" in the Lars' garage:

PADMÉ: Sometimes there are things no one can fix. You're
not all-powerful, Annie.

ANAKIN turns and walks away from the bench.

ANAKIN: (angry) I should be! Someday I will be... I will be
the most powerful Jedi ever! I promise you, I will even
learn to stop people from dying.

PADMÉ: Anakin...

ANAKIN: (furious) It's all Obi-Wan's fault. He's jealous! He's holding
me back!

When you really stop and look at all the crap Palpatine's been feeding him all these years, it's easy to see how Anakin would get to that point. At least in my opinion. Now, we know from ROTS that Anakin told Palpatine all about what happened on Tatooine. We know Anakin felt that his mother's death was a personal failure, because he wasn't "powerful" enough to save her. The question is...did he also share these feelings of personal inadequacy with Palpatine? I think he did. By confiding in a man he thought was a dear friend, Anakin unknowingly served Palpatine the key to his own downfall on a silver platter.

 

People have often said Anakin's seduction happend too quickly in ROTS, but you can see glimpses in II and III that he's been fed this stuff by Palpatine for years. He's still mostly doing the right thing, until he gets tempted to save Padme.

 

indeed.

 

As I've stated in another thread, I have begun to appreciate the PT more as of late, and its because of all the underlying stuff. It isn't made out so that what you see is what you get. Unlike the OT, there is more that goes on that we don't see. This thread brings up a good point. Palpatine has been manipulating this poor little boy through most of his life from a young age. It's no wonder he was able to turn him so quickly in ROTS, and that he was so cocky in AOTC. He was sickeningly manipulated. Its sickening what Palpatine did to him, and it really is a tragedy. Anikan already was powerful, and that makes him unstable to begin with, and then when you throw a manipulative old bastard into the mix you are bound to get Darth Vader.

I can see though, how Obi-wan allowed this relationship to go on because he wanted Anikan to be happy. It's just too bad that when he saw the danger of the relationship it was too late.

 

I guess we can say that Obi Wan's attachment to Anakin blinded him to a certain degree..

 

Oh for sure, but in the end Kenobi was still a Jedi and accepted that if Anakin couldn't turn back from the Darkside he was too great of a threat to the galaxy and knew he'd have to be destroyed. However, that little part of attatchment still left, that love, Obi Wan couldn't deliver the killing blow. I guess he didn't want to be responsible for taking his bestfriend's, his brothers, life. That cost the galaxy alot.

Even in the temple, Yoda seemed to know beforehand Anakin was responsible. I guess it was the second he realized most of the Jedi were killed by a lightsaber. Obi Wan refused to believe it, and when he realized it was true he was more willing to go against the Emporer instead of killing Anakin.

But it's not like Obi Wan turned to the darkside just to avoid killing Anakin.

 

Yeah pretty much.

 

I think that Yoda knew the deal after he felt Mace's posse and Mace get killed and felt that Anakin had switched teams..

 

Did it say that in the novel? I had the feeling that because the darkside of the force clouds everything, that Yoda would only feel it suddenly get stronger. He could assume it was Anakin, but IMO I don't think it clicked until he realized that the Jedi were killed with a lightsaber.

 

The thing is, Anakin and Vader were two separate entities, with the same memories and emotions. Anakin wasn't a bad person. He did everything in his power to save Padme. But when he made that last jump, he had stepped too far. When he learned of Padme's death, he had nothing to live for. Then he learned of his children. That last bit of Anakin Skywalker was brought back to life. The man begun to fight with Vader, and when he saw his son being tortured by Palpatine, his love for his son gave him the last bit of willpower to defeat the separate entity in his body. Vader was defeated, and Anakin came back. He saved his son and brought balance back to the Force.

That is the way I see it. His love for the ones close to him turned him to the dark side, then turned him back, and sadly, it got him killed in the end.

 

I think any friendship between Anakin and Palpatine ended when Palps revealed he was a Sith. From that point onward Palpatine is a means to an end. And eventually an obstacle to be overcome.

 

Oh, for sure. Once Anakin realized Palps= Sidious, he was super angry. He had been lied to, and manipulated for 13 years. But he put his personal betrayal and feelings aside in order to save Padme. Within those hours, Palps had went from father figure, mentor and friend to his most reliable source for an answer, and .'., his master.

 

that is pretty obvious.

 

Darth Vader may have been evil, but he was not stupid. He undoubtedly figured out that Palpatine had been playing him like a harp from day one, and he obviously didn't take kindly to it since he spends the next 20 years plotting how to overthrow him. We don't know exactly how much Vader knew about Palpatine, but it wouldn't have taken him long to put two and two together. I'd go as far as to say that Vader knew everything except that Padme had twins, and that would give him every reason in the world to despise ever molecule of Palpatine's existence.

 

indeed..