The Grandfather's of modern Fantasy

We all know that the Father's of modern Fantasy are C.S. Lewis and J.R.R Tolkien but who heavily influenced them? The answer is George MacDonald, William Morris, and Eric Rucker Eddison. MacDonald made such works as Phantastes, Lilith, and The Princess and the Goblin. Morris made such works as The Well at the World's End, The Wood at the World's End, and The House of Wolfings and The Roots of the Mountains. Eddison's main work was The Worm Ouroboros.

 

Are we to conclude that only the english world hammered the first plank?

 

Well I was talking about modern fantasy and the writers I mentioned along with a few others like Lord Dunsany heavily influenced Tolkien and Lewis who are considered the "Father's" of modern fantasy. Who ever wrote The Epic of Gilgamesh is the creator of Fantasy literature and that was a Summerian epic. Since Tolkien and Lewis were English it would only be logical for them to be heavily influenced by English literature but they could also be influenced by some eastern world stories.

 

How do we know Mongolians or Incas didn't have fantasists among them?

 

Don't forget the likes of Robert E. Howard, H.P. Lovecraft, Lewis Carol, Brahm Stoker, Horace Walpole, Lord Byron, Fritz Leiber, Clark Ashton Smith...

 

They probably did but they were most likely passed down orally or lost. I should have said that The Epic of Gilgamesh is the oldest known work of fantasy literature.

 

Personally, I?m most drawn to modern fantasy?s rebellious sons ? Gene Wolfe and Michael Moorcock. Read Moorcock?s iconic essay, ?Epic Pooh,? and you?ll gain a little bit of insight why it may be necessary to think twice about naming Tolkien and Lewis as modern fantasy?s standard-bearers.


http://www.revolutionsf.com/print.php3?id=953

 

I think the "granfather's" of modern fantasy deserve to be more read and desrve more credit.

 

I've seen nothing extraordinary in their books in general, to be honest. I don't know why they must be honoured.

 

Actually, Tolkien was more inspired by Scandanavian epics and folklore like the Volsung Saga than by anything that Dunsany, Morris or MacDonald wrote, though he originally learned of the tale of Sigurd the Dragonslayer from a story by Andrew Lang, I believe.

 

Well maybe he was more influenced by Scandanavian epics but I still think he was somewhat influenced by the above mentioned writers. Although, The Worm Ouroboros by E.R. Eddison is considered a great piece of Fantasy literature it had its flaws and these flaws taught Tolkien what to do differently when creating an imaginery world. I think MacDonald was a bigger influence on C.S. Lewis than he was on Tolkien and I also think that Morris influenced Tolkien more than Lewis. I don't know how big of an influence Dunsany was but it does say on Amazon.com that he created the Sword and Sorcery genre in his early short stories.

 

well, that's what you think. and i think other people have conclusively proven that it's not necessarily the case, no?

 

"Lewis wrote in his preface to George MacDonald: An Anthology, "I have never concealed the fact that I regarded him as my master; indeed I fancy I have never written a book in which I did not quote from him."-from www.george-macdonold.com. "Eric Rucker Eddison English novelist and scholar of Icelandic literature whose works in the genre of romantic fantasy influenced the English fantasist J.R.R. Tolkien."-from Encyclopedia Brittanica Online. "Next, I turned to remarks Tolkien made in the earliest of his published letters in The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien. In 1914 he wrote to his future wife, Edith, that he was hoping to turn one of the stories in the great Finnish epic, Kalevala, "into a short story somewhat on the lines of Morris' romances."-from www.inklingbooks.com. Do I have to get a thousand quotes to prove to you guys that these writers influenced C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien. I have not seen others conclusively prove that Tolkien and Lewis were not influenced by these writers.

 

a thousand quotes won't do

1001 would be more appropriate

anyway, but what you write especially about tolkien just says that he was influenced by both kalevala et al and the other guys you mentioned, no?

that's how i see it at least.

the other thing is that just because authors claim who or what their influence is, doesn't make it the only influence. however much tolkien says mordor isn't influenced by WW1 i still see it. well, at least it's the stuff i bring to it myself.

 

Tolkien was influenced by The Kalevala and other works besides the works of the writers I mentioned and I don't deny it. Just to clear things up I never said that Tolkien was just influenced by the writers I mentioned either. Let's get back on topic, why do you guys think the early modern fnatasy writers do not get much attention and what do you think of their works?

 

Bump

 

I hearing that Steven Erikson is being compared to George Martin and Glen Cook. The former I know, but what has Cook done that ascends him into this stratospheric cadre? I'm not familiar with him.

 

In the nicest, least nit-picking way possible, I'd just like to point out the apostrophe in the title of this thread is actually driving me to distraction.

 

Sorry, I guess I made a minor grammatical error when I created the thread.

 

And George Martin's million nipple words didn't, Barabel? I've learned to enlighten myself above stratospheric issues.

Of course, I'm contradicting myself when I say the constant full names in SW drives me to distraction. And it's hard to remember who's male and female when Erikson names are based on instruments and emotion.

 

what about the Mothers of modern fantasy, eh?

 

Ms. Hope Mirrlees who is best known for her fantasy novel Lud-in-the-Mist (1926) would probably be considered a Grandmother of Modern Fantasy.

 

I know some fems who coauthored with their hubbies, but weren't equally named for various reasons, bakc in those grammophone days. But it's true, they're always men.

 

I'm a bit of a sexist when it comes to fantasy. I've never really enjoyed too many fantasy books written by women as they always come out... bad.

 

And it's true. Ladies can't write excitement well, only emotion. I've yet to read a single woman who can write sci fi. But flip the Sith, and men don't do emotional scenes well.