The kiss

I have seen a lot of discussion in other threads about Luke and Leia's kiss in Empire. Some people feel that it in light of the fact that they are revealed to be siblings in Jedi that the scene does not belong. They believe that it was an obvious sign Lucas had not yet decided to make Luke and Leia siblings when the film was written.

I could not disagree more. I understand that the incestuous nature of the kiss is a little strange, but since neither Luke nor Leia knew that they were brother and sister I don't think there was anything wrong with it. I agree that Lucas didn't have the twins idea in mind when he wrote ANH, and that it wasn't definite in his mind when ESB was written, but I don't think that the kiss means anything when it comes to this. Another user pointed out in the dvd thread that characters who do not know they are related having an incestuous relationship is common throughout literature and I have never taken this kiss to be anything more than another example of that.

What is your opinion on this?

PS: If there is another thread on this that I missed don't hesitate to refer me to it.

 

Well, the kiss doesn't actually bug me much. Yeah, I like to joke about it when I watch the movies, like when Leia says somehow she always knew Luke was her brother I like to say, "Then why did you kiss him, you wierdo?". But I think it works perfectly in the story and, no, it definitely does not need to be taken out.

 

Nope, no need to take it out.

Gothic Yoda

 

"They believe that it was an obvious sign Lucas had not yet decided to make Luke and Leia siblings when the film was written.

I could not disagree more."

Disagree all you want, but it's true. Luke and Leia were never intended to be siblings when ESB was made.

 

I have to agree.

Lucas and his original backers from Fox that first introduced the Star Wars saga were very quick to plug the prospect of a long and successful film franchise.

I'm sure many remember the old story of having 9 films instead of the six were familiar with.

And as others may recall the original plot directions for Eps 4-9 were that Solo dies, Leia becomes a queen, and someone else from another part of the galaxy takes the centre stage as Luke's long lost sister.

Do some research, look into the cut scenes from Empire, wether old film stock, or publicity trailers back in the day;

There WAS more extended romance scenes between Luke and Leia, the intimacy, closeness, and I dare say long, gentle moments were clearly indicative of a potential romance.

The darker truth I fear is that back in the day Lucas began to worry about only being known for Star Wars as a film maker/producer and wanted to put as much distance on the franchise as he could.

He had prequels still in the wings, so why not close it up in the third arc?

 

In fact...

"The aspect of a possible romance between Leia and Luke was a lot more obvious in the earlier drafts. In the treatment and the first draft, Luke declares his love but Leia explains that a relationship is impossible because of her duties. In the second draft Luke's declaration is interrupted when Han walks into the sick bay, and in the revised fourth draft the droids come in as Luke is about to kiss Leia passionately." - Annotated Screenplays

 

But that's so...naughty.

 

Disagree all you want, but it's true. Luke and Leia were never intended to be siblings when ESB was made.

Perhaps i wasn't clear. I agree that they were not supposed to be siblings when ESB was written. At most it was just an idea in George's head that he was not fully committed to. What I disagreed with was that the kiss is indisputable evidence that they were not intended to be siblings.

 

Dude;

My scarred inner child still believes they shouldn't be siblings...

*sobs*

Do you know what my childhood girlfriend and I used to do with my Luke and Leia action figures when were kids?

Hell, if you knew what my dad used to do with my Leia and Vader action figure just to amuse my mother you'd understand why I'm scarred....



I NEED THERAPY!!!!!

DAMN YOU GEORGE!!!!!

 

I agree what Leia was just so mad at Han because he seemed to know it all, and maybe because she was still smarting from the 'afraid I'd leave you without a goodbye kiss' remark.

Leia says that Han doesn't know everything about women when she kisses him a sign at least to me that it was just for show, a sign that Han wasn't the be all and end all for her.

 

Okay so it was not Lucas' intention to make Luke and Leia to be siblings. Now in ESB Yoda says:"There is another" so George was pointing out that there was another hope. Who did he have in mind at that time if it was not Leia?

The same with dialogue from ANH. It was never Lucas' intention to let Luke be the son of Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker. But to me the dialogue between uncle Owen and aunt Beru where Beru says:"Luke just isn't a farmer, he has too much of his father in him" to which Owen replies:"That's what I'm afraid of!" Now this dialogue has much more power when you realize that Luke was the son of the most evil man in the galaxy who went from a good jedi to a master of evil. It would not mean that much if he just pointed out that the good Anakin was destroyed by the most evil man in the galaxy.

What I am trying to say is that I have a feeling that Lucas knew/knows more than he will admitt to the audience. He is also someone who plans ahead. E.g. filming the scene in Tunesia for part 3 while shooting part 2. That's why I think that episode 3 will go out with a big bang because that man has something up his sleeve.

Hey, but that's just my idea!

 

It could be that GL wanted to throw us off, and not to reveal a major plot point at the time.

 

Keep the kiss. I like it, Luke and Leia didn't know they were brother and sister. If the kiss for TESB was removed, they better take out the "So what do you think of her - I'm trying not to - Good" lines in ANH.
And the "For luck! - "He has to follow his own path no one can choose it for him"

 

Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi



EXTERIOR - EWOK VILLAGE


PRINCESS LEIA and YOUNG LUKE SKYWALKER are sitting cross-legged around a campfire. TRIBAL EWOK MUSIC faintly cuts through the redwood trees.

LEIA is wearing nothing but her famous METAL BIKINI; LUKE is wearing nothing but FURRY UNDERWEAR made from CHEWBACCA's back.

AWKWARDNESS fills the air.


Luke (hesitating): From the day I found out you were my own sister, not a day has gone by that I haven't fantasized about you in my room.

*LEIA visibly shifts*

Luke (continuing): And now that I'm with you again, I'm in the heavens of Iego. The closer I get to you, the bigger it gets. The thought of not being with you, like, I can't breathe!! *holds hands up to his neck and makes Darth Vader-like sound* HOOooooo--PAAAAAWWWWW!!

*LEIA flinches*

Luke: I am haunted by the french kiss you should have never given me--

Leia: Luki,--

Luke (continuing): --and I am traumatized by the BJ you should have DEFINITELY never given me!!! I am beating, hoping that love-bite will not become a scar. You are in my very pants, tormenting me. What can I do...I will do any place that you ask.

LEIA looks blankly at LUKE and scoots away from him.

Luke: If your nipples are as taut as Dad's were while thinking about Grandma, please, tell me!! Tell me now!!

Leia: Luki, you listen to me. We live in the real world with real laws and real prohibitions.
You're studying to become a moisture farmboy, and I'm, I'm an angel. If you follow your fantasies to logical conclusion,
it will take us to a bedroom we cannot go. Regardless of the way we feel each other up.

Luke(looks down, then quickly back up): Then you do feel it! *smiles*

Leia: I will not let you spend the rest of your life in prison for me.

Luke (rolling eyes): Aawww man!! Biggs Fartlighter was right, I'm never gonna score with my sister!

Leia: Luki!

Luke: You are asking me to be a grown-up man. That is something I know I cannot be.

Leia: I will not give in to this! We'd be living with inbred children!! We couldn't keep those mutated freaks a secret, even if we wanted to!

Luke: No...you're right. *flashes a psychotic leer* I would destroy them.



IRIS OUT

 

On board the rebel medical frigate 'Redemption' the remaining leaders of the Hoth resistance cell; Princess Leia and Commander Luke Skywalker watched from the observation window as the battered freighter detached from the ventral docking port and sped towards the vast ebony blanket of deep space.

Dominating the viewport, the neighbouring spiral-b type galaxy cast a somewhat comforting illumination into the medical bay;

Almost like a blazing fireplace.

Outside, the Millenium Falcon broke abruptly to the port and careened away, making its way for the midrim.

Luke ran the past events through his mind, as did the young Alderranian princess. War, loss, pursuit, pain and revalation. Much had happened in such a short space of time.

Times that test ones soul, Leia realized.

It must have occurred to the young Commander too, Leia felt, as the dashing young man, garbed in his all-white judogi leaned in and drapped a supportive arm across her shoulders.

Feeling the draw of destiny, to say nothing of the deep seeded need for emotional support and comfort; the princess leaned in, the two, becoming one.

A long silence passed, interupted only by the swift passing of the X-wing and Y-Wing sentry patrols.

The moment seemed like an eternity, until Leia craned her head to regard the young man. Their eyes met, like mirrors of the other, they could see the mutual pain and loss in their features.

Like a mutual loss of innocence.

Luke was the first to break the look, like a resurgence of his more immature persona, the young Commander was overcome with a mixture of embarrassment and shame.

At first Leia didn't understand, and tracked his line of sight-

And then, suddenly, without warning, Luke realized where he was staring;

The medical bio-bed.

The two felt each other tense up, followed by a slight increase in their respiration. Luke opened his mouth to speak-

"Sir, if you'll not be needing me, I'll shut down for a while." A prissy upperclass voice broke in, cutting Luke off.

"Sure go ahead." Leia burst in with a sudden fire she didn't realize she was feeling.

Again, rememberence of war, and loss passed through her.

She might never see Han again. Her love, Luke's friend-

This time Leia opened her mouth to speak-

Only to have it die stillborn as Luke gently ushered her to the nearby bio-bed.

Leia looked around with a sudden aprehension. Threepio already shut down. Two-one-bee the medical droid had finished his business. That only left Artoo.

With a nervous warble, Artoo turned his domed head away, chirping something to himself about how famaliar this was to him.

And out there, beyond the tapesry of celestical conflict, additional Y-Wings and X-wings sped towards the brilliant illumination of the nearby galaxy...



Hmmm...maybe George was on to something about X and Y chromos, no?

 

i was just thinking what a beautiful scene it was *points to icon* when you took the next level

care to bring up the subject of oedipus?

same kind of thing, but no one told freud that oedipus didn't who his real parents were until it was too late




way too late

 

as for odeipus, the Saga borrows heavily from greek mythology.

and does anyone remember the owl from clash of the titans? I swear that thing sounds exactly like artoo.


My friend's dad, in order to embarass me when we were arguing over the luke/leia kiss thingers, pointed out to me that if my actual brother and I were seperated at birth and then met at summer camp and dated or just became good friends, I probably wouldn't object to kissing him.

Luke and Leia didn't know they were related.

therefore, all incest is null and void.

 

"All incest is null and void."

Now there's a quote of the evening...

Consumer;

"Got any movies with implied incestious themes?"

Blockbuster Video Cashier;

"Episode Five, isle three."

Second Consumer;

"Anything with implied phedophilia?"

Blockbuster Video Cashier;

"Episode One, clearance rack..."

 

I was the one who started that discussion back in the old OT DVD Changes thread. DarthToeJam brought up the Oedipus argument.

Yeah, I still think it's just...an awkward scene in light of the revelation in ROTJ. It was supposed to funny back in 1980 because Han got burned by Leia. Now it's unintentionally funny because Luke locks lips with sis.

When the Special Editions came out in '97, a lot of people laughed in the theater and I thought to myself, "Ha! Think you're suave, Luke? Joke's on you, buddy."

 

Hmmm...let's think about this for a sec...

Episode 1;

Ends with a 14 year old girl, and 25 year old boy grinning at a 10 year old.

Episode 2;

End with two messed up teens eloping.

Episode 4;

Ends with a man 10 years the princesses senior and her brother both giving her 'the stare.'

Episode 5;

Ends with brother and sister cuddling near a hospital bed.

Episode 6;

Ends with the princess and her decade older boyfriend cuddling while the brother is looking down with a nutbar smile...


Hmmm....

I'm sooooo very eager to see the ending of Episode 3...

No really...

 

If GL didn't intend for Leia to be Luke's sister, then why did she sense him on the Millennium Falcon at the end of ESB? It seems clear that he intended them to be siblings at least after ANH. The kiss it seems was just to make Han jealous, and not to be taken seriously. I don't think it was necessary, but oh well.

 

I think ppl need to get over that stupid scene and move on with their fricken lives. I see a new "kiss" thread every month and not just on this mb. It got old months ago.