The Military Draft Discussion Thread.

Would you go if called upon to serve?

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Here's my take:

I'm a military veteran of the US Navy of 4 years. I served in a Naval Hospital for 2 years and did 2 years of sea duty. My sea duty included 3 tours in the Persian Gulf and just as many in the Adriatic Sea aboard the USS George Washington (CVN-73) as a Hospital Corpsman. After my term of service, I had to do 4 years inactive service (I didn't have to do the weekend-a-month thing) as part of a "draft pool" in case the active reserves ran out. I completed my total 8 year obligation in November of 1999.

I personally do not think a draft should be instituted unless a need occurs where men (and women) are absolutely needed to defend this country and our freedom from a dire threat. Such was the case in WW II.

If we were to experience a threat beyond a small regional skirmish, and our nation itself was under duress, I would fully support a draft. Otherwise, a volunteer army is sufficient IMHO.

Now this does not take into account the principle of "shared sacrifice". Shared sacrifice is something akin to what the Israelis do where all males, regardless of socioeconomic status, must serve some time in the armed forces (I think it may be 2 years, someone can correct me if I am mistaken). With a volunteer army, the poor and middle income Americans seem to share most of the burden of defending the country as persons of wealthy parents would not need to take that route due to monetary stability.

I wonder truly how this generation would handle a situation like WW II. Would they heed the call as our grandparents did?

 

Today is a different world. Technology and geopolitics make it unlikely that a conscript army will ever be needed by the United States.

I see no reason to re-institute the draft right now, and I think it is a good thing that we no longer have one. Military service should be voluntary.

 

The only positive aspect of enacting the draft that I can see is that the American public might think twice before supporting a frivolous war if they knew that someone they're related to might actually have to go and fight it.

 

I don't think it's a good idea. I think there are people who will truly never be physically or emotionally strong enough for combat. (Myself, for one.) Also, this bill does not allow exceptions for college. I think it's a VERY BAD IDEA to have millions of people in their mid-20s who have just come back from a war and have nothing beyond a high school education, not to mention that many will probably have psychological problems.

 

"The only positive aspect of enacting the draft that I can see is that the American public might think twice before supporting a frivolous war..."

Oh, so you support the Rangel view? I understand his ulterior motives for proposing a draft, but I believe that's reckless politics and ultimately illiberal and irresponsible.

If people oppose foreign adventurism by the US military, why not do it on priciple, instead of putting forward the idea of the draft? And if the Draft is favoured, it should be on its own merits, not for ulterior purposes.


Btw, Hi. Haven't seen you around much.

 

I don't think we'll ever see a war on that scale again, Rebecca.

 

Would you go if called upon to serve?

If they reinstituted the draft (which is highly unlikely)?

In a heartbeat.

Freedom isn't free, and people need to step up if we need to defend it.

 

I wouldn't go.

Call me a coward if you like. I don't care.

But I would fall apart the first second I was in a combat situation.

 

Times are different but I would support the draft in a second and that means I would glady go if I was called up.

I would not support something which I myself wouldn't be willing to do myself. The same should go for the folks who are thinking about making it law right now.

I think this generation needs to get up and do something for a change. Put down the Xbox and PS2 controllers and stop playing GTAIII, Ghost Recon, and Halo and experience the real thing and find out quick that war, violence etc whether it be real or not is not entertainment or a good thing.

I just found out tonight from my best friend who lives in North Carolina who is engaged to be married to a woman in the army is being shipped out next week and they cannot decide whether or not to be married real quick now, or when she gets back. I'm in Florida and he wanted me to be there to be the best man, and I told him that they should get married now before she leaves and to throw the big party when she gets home, but I told them not to wait up for me to make the decision. I will find out tomorrow what they decided to do. Part of just simply wants to enlist right now, but the other part of me says to see what happens. Can't decide.

 

As a Desert Storm veteran, I can tell you all this.

In my first day of Basic Training, the post Command Sergeant Major addressed us at reception, and commended us, because all of us had chosen to be there and gave us his story about how he had been drafted in the 60's under a 'Join the Army or go to Jail' kinda thing.

THe US Military is the most powerfull military in the history of this planet and has probably saved more lives then we can count, simply by flexing it's muscles. Today's ARmy at this point is all Volunteer (There may be a few high ranking personell who were actually drafted in like the Sergeant Major in my example that are still on duty today), and the fact that so many minority's and lower-class people use the military as a means of bettering themselves speaks volumes of the military and it's personification of the American Dream.

 

I might go, as long as they got rid of don't ask don't tell. Expecting gays to serve in the closet is ridiculous. They should have the same right to serve as women and blacks.

There are two advantages to a draft. First, as I said, no more discrimination against gays. Secondly, no one can get out of it unless for medical reasons. They can't say "I'm studying engineering, so I can't be drafted." Which solves one of the problems with Vietnam: congressmen who have never served in the military have no qualms about sending out military overseas to protect their business interests. But if their own children were at risk for being drafted, maybe they would think twice about using the army arbitrarily, or doing to keep up appearances without actually accomplishing anything.

 

As a nine-year Army veteran, I am ambivalent towards the idea of reinstating the draft. Our military is the best-trained, most proficient force in the world, and that is largely due to the fact that it is an all-volunteer force. It attracts motivated young people and provides them with training and opportunities that they may not have had otherwise, and it makes for a very adaptable, highly capable fighting force. I believe that reinstating the draft would cause enormous logistical and training problems that would actually degrade combat effectiveness until they were overcome.

On the other hand, I think that reinstating the draft might help close the gap between our military people and the civilians that they serve. The all-volunteer force has created a class of professional soldier that is sometimes isolated from the community it serves. Without the draft, our military is no longer represents a true cross-section of our population. Fewer and fewer people Americans, especially those in leadership positions, have a real understanding (or appreciation, it seems sometimes) of the sacrifices our soldiers, sailors, and airmen make for them. Military life is difficult, both physically and emotionally. A draft might help bring us closer in a sense of shared service and sacrifice.

In the current context, though, I believe the draft is unnecessary. Short of full-blown world war, our current standing forces, augmented by the Guard and Reserves, is more than capable of handling the types of conflicts we are likely to face.

 

Scarily enough, I agree with Pigfeet on this one. (Believe me, I'm far more disturbed about this than any of you.)

I really think that if you live in this country and you appreciate the freedom that living here brings, you should be prepared to defend it. It's extremely hypcritical to say, "I love this place. I love working a decent job and getting money from the government to go to school. What, someone is going to try to take all that away? Sorry. I'm outta here."

That being said, I don't think we should institute a draft except if it's really necessary. While there are plenty of people out there who would no doubt benefit from some mandatory military service, there's just no reason for it unless we actually have a war to fight.

Oh yeah, and women should be drafted, but you all knew that already.

 

Quote:
"Oh, so you support the Rangel view? "

No I don't. I don't agree with the draft at all unless we're being invaded and are out of soldiers or something, circumstances that are very unlikely. My only point was that such a bill might make some people think twice before getting all gung ho over an unnecessary war. This includes the politicians, although they would probably be able to get their kids out of the draft anyway.

 

Eh. I was just referring to parts of Rangel's view, I suppose. Sorry to over-generalise.

...http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/politics/ny-usrang083079117jan08,0,7771309.story?coll=ny-lipolitics-print

Rangel, a decorated Korean War veteran who opposes a war with Iraq, noted that few members of Congress have sons or daughters in the military. If supporters of the war knew their children would be at risk, there would be a "greater willingness to work with the international community in dealing with Iraq," Rangel said.

TalkLeft also opposes Rangel's political ploy

 

Some great points above. I especially agree with the point that all of us should be prepared to defend the democracy and freedom that we live in............but yet I find it hard to see myself pick up a gun and shoot someone. I'm not a murderer.

However, *if* my country (or your country) was attacked, and I saw video footage or whatever of my people (or your people) being attacked, I strongly feel that would be sufficent for me to want to get personally involved in a war. I'm sure the footage of Pearl Harbour (or the mere news story) was sufficent to get millions of Americans motivated to join WW2.

Unfortuneately, I think in today's society that many drafted soldiers would run (or freeze up) at the first sign of conflict, leaving the "proper" (non-drafted) soldiers to deal with the situation. I don't know how I'd react to be honest.

A friend of mine was one of the soldiers involved in the "Black Hawk Down" incident (the real one, not the movie) and his stories terrify me.

I'm actually a supporter of National Service (what we call the 2 years of involuntary military service at the end of high school). I have many european friends that have served their country, and the majority of people enjoyed it.

One German friend said they were some of the best years of his life (he used to drive a mobile nuclear missile launcher ). I also have an Israeli friend (female) who was a tank driver They both say it gave them a more respect for life, and the motivation to go to college, seek out a good job and work as hard as possible. It also prepared them well for any possible draft that might occur in the future.

I think 2 years military service after high school and before college would be a good thing in any country - it might reduce crime levels, drug abuse and unemployment. AND, it might teach those high school brats a bit of respect. (Or maybe I'm hoping for too much).

The problem is the cost of having all these extra soldiers in the military for 2 years but obviously the advantage is that if everyone has some military experience it would prepare the population for a draft. Furthermore, it might actually deter other nations from attacking our countries because they know there would be millions of potential soldiers ready to fight.

anyways, enough of my rant !

excellent posts

malkie

 

Hey all. Just snatching a quick break from the hell of finals.

My opinion the draft: I don't like it. Military service SHOULD be voluntary.

As for me, I would gladly lay down my life in defense of my country, but only if it's for a cause that I think is worth fighting for. Yeah, I know it's selfish, but hey, it's my life.

KnightWriter:
I don't think we'll ever see a war on that scale again, Rebecca.

Yeah, that's what they said after World War I - "the war to end all wars" (when, in fact, it actually started WWII).

 

Unfortuneately, I think in today's society that many drafted soldiers would run (or freeze up) at the first sign of conflict, leaving the "proper" (non-drafted) soldiers to deal with the situation. I don't know how I'd react to be honest.

malkie, I don't think you give yourself enough credit. Military training is highly repetitious and rigorous to ensure that things like that don't happen. Fear is natural, but many combat soldiers say that training takes over when faced with a such a situation, and they do what's necessary almost without thinking about it.

Even if we had a draft, the military isn't going to send untrained soldiers into battle. The American public would never stand for it.

 

If we end up facing a three-prong warfront (The ambiguous war on Terrorism, Iraq, and now N.Korea), I can see where the issue of the Draft may re-emerge.

And I agree that we as Americans should be prepared to defend ourselves from aggressors.

In today's current state affairs, I am outwardly opposed to the draft, as I am outwardly opposed to war with Iraq. I question the motives of such a war that would deplete our resources and injure our military personnel.

So given the circumstances right now, today, I am opposed to the notion of a new military Draft.

But then, I am also old enough (and have been independent for so long without military training) to have a difficult time following orders when I don't believe in them. Short of brainwashing, I don't see that changing. Thankfully for the military, I'm no longer in the target age bracket for the draft.

 

Yeah, that's what they said after World War I - "the war to end all wars" (when, in fact, it actually started WWII).

Yes, I know what WWI did. However, warfare has evolved to the point where that may no longer be war on that scale.

 

I don?t believe a draft is needed at this time. I have great faith in American?s to step up to the plate to defend our country if necessary. 9/11 proved that. I remember how the last draft tore this country apart, and though I was young, I was old enough to realize that when my older brother drew number eight, it could mean that I might see him coming home in a box. While today?s situation is different, we might want to remember the past and the lessons we drew from it. It is too soon to say we are at the point of declaring the volunteer forces inadequate.

 

Before anything else, I want to say this is just a very rough idea of mine that I am throwing out.

What if we had two "militaries"? One would be the military we know now, the other would be like an international aid program. One would be in charge of the defense of nations and our interests in other countries; the other military would help out countries with national disasters or help to rebuild countries infrastructure (such as Afghanistan right now).

With this system, I might reinstate the draft (kind of like the Israeli system), giving the draftees the choice of which military to join. They have the choice to fight or to build, depending on which serves their interests/beliefs. But they will HAVE TO SERVE and GIVE BACK to their country and fellow citizens.

There are other benifits as well, mainly having to do with an increased appreciation for what is going on in the world.

 

Jediflyer nice ideas I think most of the points you have raised are covered by the United Nations (UN) forces. They do peace keeping in other countries, and are supposed to look after our interests around the world.

They have military forces that are made up of people from around the world.

Have a read of some of the UN threads here to see what I'm talking about.

malkie

 

I'm 25 and deaf in my left ear. Draft em, up; I'm not going anywhere!!!

J/K. The draft should be reserved for matters of protection of soverenty and extreme urgency. To bring it up when there is no need is illtimed and unneccessary. Not to mention the days of assaults in mass are long gone. Too many soldiers in too little of space is a receipe for disaster in today's battlefield. The only benefit of the draft would be controling hostile territory and peace keeping.

 

Just on principle, I'd refuse to go if drafted. If I believe in the cause, I'll enlist, but I ain't gonna be forced to fight.