The Nature of the Holonet.

this started off as a thought i was about to post on the latest skywalker/naberrie - why don't they know each other thread.

a lot of people wonder "why didn't luke just look up his father/mother on the holonet?" etc. and the general answer is usually: "information is not available or was erased by the empire"

I don't think this is the case.

I think the Holonet is not like our internet. The Holonet, at least from how we first see it, is nothing but a communication network, and not an information source. it's nothing more than a phone and tv system. you can only watch what the tv stations put on the air.

there might not be a google or even home-made websites for a google to search - only the officially licensed providers of information.

for whatever reason, there is not a galaxywide network of publicly available information provided by anyone. it's just one-way communication (like TV and radio) with phone call capability (holocomm).

you'll note that every time luke and co. have to track down information, they have to actually go to a physical building on some world to find it. why is it that they have to go to Obroaski to visit the archives, rather than search the Obroaski archives online from coruscant? there is no online.

information is power, and can lead to wealth. setting up the holonet to span most of the galaxy isn't cheap, and most likely those who set up the physical network want to make sure that they can maximize their profit by controlling its use - meaning they control the content. under the empire, where information is a weapon to control the population, you can definitely see no point in having a freeflow of information like on the internet. further the data needs of connecting a whole galaxy might be huge - while planets might have their own planetary internets, the technical resources to make a galactic internet might be unjustified in cost or political cost. everyone with information keeps tight control over it.

If Luke wanted to look up information on his mom or dad, he'd first have to figure out who is likely to have that information, and travel to that world, and then look it up in whatever local custom (computer archives, boxes of books, talk to the old folk, etc.). He can't just sit at home and use the computer to find the answers.

 

The Holonet News Network proves otherwise.

As does nearly every source on the Holonet that we have, James...

Sorry, man.

 

Agree, it's probably like Fox. That's why Karrde made a profession out of selling information.

Maybe the GFFA developed the space travel technologies to get the information because they didn't have internet? Mankind hasn't been to the moon since Windows is around.

 

the HNN might be searchable in itself, but might not have the capability to search out information galaxy wide. HNN is only a news service, similar to CNN or Fox News or the Associated Press. it delivers information, and you might be able to search it and other newsfeeds, and other officially sanctioned (or illegally operating) sites, but i'm not sure there is the wealth of sites operating in the way that we have on our internet, or the capability to easily search them all.

or the information that can be easily searched is pretty much crap. no one shares their good information. only the information they can give away in order to get customers to come to them.

the Holonet, under the Empire, seemed more just a phone system and one-way propaganda dissemination system than a network of actual content that anyone could add to.

 

Holonet searches were explicitly covered as a Gather Information check in the SWRPG, so you could find things on there which may have been well-hidden.

Obviously there will always be SOME things which are never, ever put on the Holonet, but it functions like an all-pervasive Internet in the GFFA.

 

I figured that the reason they had to do so much searching for physical information was due to the fact that the network was disrupted by the war.

For what it's worth, Kyle Katarn and Jan Ors email (with that exact word) each other in Soldier for the Empire - I assume there'd be a way to store and access emails other than using your own personal computer.

And am I making this up, or do I remember something in some book or game where a computer was hacked over long distances?

 

Inside the Worlds of the OT shows that Luke has a small personal computer that he uses to "email" his friends.

X-Wing Alliance has a pretty large email system, which seems to be an Alliance information network. Spammers too.



This all brings us to the real point: will we ever see Yoda dancing around, singing "The HoloNet is for porn!"?

 

updating:

while the holonet allows for email capabilities - i'm still sticking with the notion that it doesn't have a 'web' type system where anyone can make a site to disseminate information. most large computer networks with content would not be publicly accessible from the holonet.

it's communication and mass media, and not information. i don't think there's would be a google or an amazon or a wikipedia or about.com

as for the RPG: can't we chalk that up as a game mechanic

at the time that the imperial era information on the holonet was written, the internet as it existed in the late 90s-today was not a part of the public consciousness - it might have been more like a huge mess of unconnected BBS's, except that most of them were government controlled.

 

Galaxy of Fear has kids chatting, searching, etc. surfing the holonet and it is like the internet in there with chats, search engines, especially on history, jedi and so on. as well you can make own homepages, everyone can. all stated in there sorry man

 

Luke not finding out top secret government info about his father on the Holonet proves nothing either way - Think about it even in the real world there's plenty of stuff that's not on the net and Governmental networks aren't all public access in the real world are they?

 

I think the first question I'd like answered is exactly how the HoloNet works, and how extensively it's available!!

A few quotes:

During the time of the Old Republic, there was a HoloNet which transmitted information throughout the constituent worlds. The HoloNet was extremely expensive to maintain, but it provided the Republic with a sophisticated, flexible means of communication. Consisting of hundreds of thousands of non-mass transcievers connected through a vast matrix of coordinated hyperspace S-threads (popularly known as Simu-Tunnels), as well as the computing power to sort and decode all the information, the HoloNet was the only method available for real-time holographic transmissions between worlds.

It was horrendously expensive to maintain, costing many thousands of credits per full-channel transmission second per transciever. The HoloNet was used almost exclusively by the government and the larger commercial houses of the Old Republic. But it did connect the constituent worlds, giving a sense of belonging to the average citizen.

Smaller commercial concerns and individuals never used the HoloNet directly; they relied on the literally millions of traders who travelled the commercial corridors of the Old Republic.

Soon after Palpatine assumed the throne he dismantled the holonet, achieving two objectives. First, he made it difficult for any foes not in the Senate to coordinate any resistance to his designs. Any individual system, no matter how influential, could easily be crushed by the Empire. Second, the constituent worlds were used to absorbing the cost of the HoloNet, even though most worlds recieved little benefit from the system during the final days of the Republic's collapse. This gave the Emperor an enormous flow of credits with which to initiate the rapid buildup of Imperial forces, maintaining and outfitting more troops in the first six months of his reign than the Republic had ever mobilized at any one time.

Governor Tarkin urged the Emperor to reinstitute HoloNet technology on a much smaller scale, for use by the Imperial Navy only, and then only at the level of the Sector Group....

- The Imperial Sourebook, page 13

On which see further on Sector Groups...

Cannibalize existing holonet transcievers, modify them, and put them in the flagship of every Sector Group in an Oversector command. Place similar facilities within His Majesty's command ship and within the Royal Palaces of Imperial City. This will enable forces to respond to threats almost as quickly as they are reported. The Imperial forces will be able to coordinate to a degree impossible among an enemy whose fastest means of communication is an ever changing rendezvous point somewhere in the Galaxy

- The third of the five recommendations from Moff Tarkin that became the basis of the "Tarkin Doctrine"; Death Star Technical Companion, page 8

And for a more local level...

A systems force is responsible for several systems, the admiral being in charge of organizing and coordinating all of his ships through a sphere of command spanning hundreds of light years and dozens of worlds, the normal methods of communications being no faster than the ships themselves.

- The Imperial Sourcebook, page 106

Now, following on from this, as well as "real-time holographic transmissions", another important part of the HoloNet consists of newsfeeds - and perhaps "feeds" more generally.

These are programmed broadcasts, containing reports and holodocumentaries, and perhaps searchable archives; they seem to function as much like newspapers as news networks - perhaps news channel websites are a good analogy...

Clearly, these continued under the Empire, as some were Imperial-controlled and used for propaganda... others were local, planetary or city-based. Yet more were illegal; in the Clone Wars, the seperatists used the CIS Shadowfeed, while the Alliance had virastacks, piggy-backed ontoo HoloNet feeds...

A

 

Didn't Tarkin get a HoloNet message on the DS about Palpatine disbanding the Senate?

 

In TG: Luke tells Leia, "I did a name search over the HoloNet. [Anakin Skywalker] won his freedom in the Boonta Eve Classic. The only human ever, I believe." So I imagine it is a lot like the internet in that as well as a communication network it is also an information network, besides if it wasn't then Ghent would be out of a job.

 

Very quick thought: What if the Holonet is a cumulative name for several communications systems? The main realtime point to point transmitters with massive bandwidth that is hideously expensive, as well as smaller networks of subspace radios and relays used for commercial and private use, but with limited range and bandwidth.

 

Wes's idea certainly makes sense, just as our internet is made up of a variety of high and low bandwidth routers and computers.

so if the Holonet was more or less dismantled under the Empire.. how did the kids in GoF use it?

 

I_G_T_L: he says he's "just recieved word", which could, theoretically, have come by messenger ship...

But seriously, yeah, I suspect the DS has a transciever...

Wes: it works! And we have evidence of this, too: Munificent-class ships carry transcievers to give the IGBC their own "lines"...

Jawa: I think what Wes said covers this already; what dismantled was the high-bandwidth real-time aparatus... given the survival of Imperial newsfeeds, we know that what was dismantled didn't shut down the 'feeds...

It's also possible that much of the HoloNet aparatus is local, drawing on in-system caches rather than the FTL comms network... updates could even be physically carried from system to system aboard ships... I mean, they use overnight trains for newspapers; a fast ship can get a Coruscanti daily to the Outer Rim in hours...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

More resason to believe that there is an internet aspect of the HoloNet:

Paxi watched with awe as Windu and his troops defeated the Separatists. He was spellbound, and for the next few weeks, his doodle-datapad was filled with crude illustrations of Mace Windu single-handedly destroying a seismic tank. It was all the young boy could talk about.

History has lost track of whatever became of Paxi Sylo. By the time of the Empire, the Sylo farm had been completely abandoned. However, at the height of Palpatine's New Order, a bootleg animated holographic video file began propagating in the shadier parts of the HoloNet. It depicted the heroic exploits of Mace Windu on Dantooine.

The Imperial Security Bureau did what it could to stop proliferation of such a treasonous piece of media, but it gained a cult status among would-be Rebels. Though the holovid is unattributed, the style does match up with the early illustrations of a young Paxi Sylo.




Wes: So to clarify, your basicly saying that the "HoloNet" is an all inclusive term that refers to a system which carries several different services including HoloComm(Telephone), News(HNN), TV(it's been indicated that this exists), and internet(possibly also called the HoloNet)? And when the Vong took down the HoloNet, all these services were taken down. If this is what your saying?

 

I just remembered something!!

The clearest example of Imperial-era HoloNet use we've seen is the Star Wars Holiday Special - a cookery show... and a live broadcast from Tatooine to Kashyyyk!!

- The Imperial Ewok

 

Consisting of hundreds of thousands of non-mass transcievers connected through a vast matrix of coordinated hyperspace S-threads (popularly known as Simu-Tunnels), as well as the computing power to sort and decode all the information.

McEwok, you've just answered in a second what I've wondered on for 15yrs. Do you understand this?



Now, my next question: Hyperspace S-threads?

 

Basically, yes. I think that Holonet as a term is used to refer to the various inter-planetary communications networks. The Imperials dismantled the high speed point to point system, leaving the NR to use the other relay based systems, hence the importance of the relays on Generis and Esfandia. The Vong took out all the relays, cutting most the rest of the network apart, given that most subspace communications are limited range.

Like jawajames said, the Internet is a term that covers a variety of communications networks. The Holonet seems to be made up of the S-thread system for instant point to point, planetary comm arrays for local use, subspace transcievers which depend on relays, and subspace radio, which are a variant of subspace transcievers that provide instant communication over limited range.

According to EGWT, the subspace tranciever networks are far cheaper than the Holonet, but given that various networks are involved, there are often delays and lag times, thus for important messages couriers are still used.

 

So essentially the Holonet utilizes hyperspace via 'Simu-Tunnels' to send data. How then is it possible that it affords it's users 'real-time' transmissions? Should that also not allow for real-time travel? This has actually bothered me for quite some time. I know that SW is fantasy and not hard sci-fi, but I'm still curious as to what the explanation for this is.

 

it wasn´t dismantled as one might think. it just was controlled more by the Empire, but like our internet no government can control it completely! so it still works, only with much more difficulty than before. and sometimes it needs slicers to get what you want. more like, many sites getting PW protected and you only get information when providing identification, instead of free access as it had been before. (like starwars.com hyperspace *coughcough* )

I still believe it is like the internet we have.

 

simu tunnels cannot be used for travel, because only energy can be sent through them and thus is faster than anything else through hyperspace. it is like some weird physics in our world allowing energy to be faster than matter ^^

 

Is that sourced information or speculation. I ask because in theory matter could be propelled at near the speed of light. Assuming this is the case in the SW universe (the speed of some sublight engines) once in hyperspace this should at least allow ships to travel at near to real-time.

 

Again, a quick speculation:

Given how hyperspace works, with gravity in realspace casting mass shadows in hyperspace, these mass shadows slowor end hyperspace travel of ships. Current theory is that the entire galaxy is held together by the force of gravity from a central black hole. Given that the entire galaxy is affected by this central gravity field, and hyperspace travel is affected by gravity, hyperspace travel likely has a cap on it's speed because of the ambient gravity of the galaxy. Holonet S-Threads are not limited by this, however, as their signals are not affected by gravity, and thus not affected by gravity shadows. While a number of other sources can cause interference with the signal at the sending/recieving locations, ambient gravity should not affect a mass-less communication signal as it would a starship trying to travel the same path.