Full Series The new Clone Wars series ruined Grievous

In the original series, Grievous fought a Padawan, normal Jedi, and four Jedi masters all at the same time, and just completely overpowered them, killing two, then proceeds to kill several Clone Trooper reinforcements, and escape their gunship with his feet. Much later in Palpatine's office, he literally kills like (sarcasm), a billion Clone Troopers and guards, and he kills two Jedi (three in novel), without any effort, and then beats Shaak Ti with one hand! In the ROTS novel, Grievous is somewhat accurate to this portrayal, where I recall he was considered "invincible", in one line.

Grievous in the film portrayal was shown as a coughing, comedy stick that had these silly antics with Nute Gunray and the other Nemodians. He then duels Kenobi and loses both his hands immediately and tries to run away, and ends up being killed like an idiot because he didn't simply cover up his chest or try to retreat.

The new Clone Wars series not only takes that continuity of Grievous into account, it takes it to a whole new level of embarrassment. He can't kill Ahsoka Tano, he is ordered around by Dooku in an almost comedic fashion, he can't outrun Ohnaka's gunship, and is not killed somehow, he uses a gun to kill a Padawn (Nahdar), he gets beat down by Kit Fisto in a comedic fashion. I think the worst offense I've seen however, is when he confidently prepared to duel Ventress, and in literally like three seconds, she disarms him, and his response is "DROIDZ KILL HER".

I probably haven't named all of the things this series did to Grievous, but I think it's enough to prove how bad they ruined him, and it just conflicts with the canon. How would this incarnation of Grievous do everything he did in the original series, which is CANON???

 

This has been discussed quite a lot actually. I for one really like how they handled Grievous in TCW, but I do agree that he should've been made stronger. But I remember making a massive list of all the duels he's been in and working out how many wins, losses and draws he got, and he didn't actually lose many at all, most of them were draws.

Grievous had his moments in the series, like in 'Grievous Intrigue', where he fought three Jedi Masters within a short period of time, and managed to draw with Obi-Wan and Adi Gallia, and beat Eeth Koth. So he's still really skilled, but of course no where near as skilled as the micro series, but really, everything was over exaggerated in that. So comparing Grievous in both of the series to ROTS, I think he was portrayed more accurately in TCW.

 

I too like his portrayal in TCW; he was definitely stronger and more of a threat than in ROTS while he wasn't an overpowered monster like in the original Clone Wars series.

 

He was not stronger and more of a threat than in ROTS. And as for the microseries I hope this clears it for good since it has been answered a million times by now: Everybody in the microseries was overpowered due to the artistic style of the cartoon. It's not supposed to be taken literally. And the point with Grievous there was that he was a big threat and a big challenge for the Jedi and the Republic troops. Unlike in TCW.

 

It has been discussed a lot.

True. If Grievous was portrayed mainly like he was in episodes like "Rising Malevolence", "Lair of Grievous", "Grievous Intrigue", "Heroes on Both Sides", "Massacre", "Bound for Rescue" and "A Necessary Bond" then it would not have been much of a problem.
I am a diehard Grievous fan and even I know that there are limits to his power, but there were episodes and moments that kinda killed Grievous as a villain on the show. Moments like the first duel with Ahsoka and "Shadow Warrior" really paint a bad general....yeahhh...The worst being the one with the gungans.

I am not sure if Lucas realized this, but by having Grievous lose so much did make him seem very pathetic and not worthy to lead the war. Lucas made the critical error of not making enough episodes with Grievous winning or defeating his enemies in the most brutal way possible. Lucas did not have balance in Grievous's portrayal and compared even to episodic villains like Riff Tamson and Maul, Grievous seemed too weak to be as important as he is in Revenge of the Sith.
Something the old series better was actually the embedding the feeling that Grievous is THE threat to all that is good. TCW kinda took that away... with the many losses, of course.
And even it was not only that he lost, but the way he lost. Yes, the Ventress duel example is good. Having him lose fast and then sick his droids on Venress was a weak move, but it is a villain's way of being traitorous fiend. It did make him look as weak as they had done him before, but in the end I like to point out to all that say that Ventress won that duel with the fact that the episode "Massacre" ended with all witches dead, Talzin in retreat, everything in ruins and Ventress crying. It makes up for the little loss IN A BIG WAY!

The loss from the Gungans actually hurt my fandom a lot. It made me very angry. Just cause of that episode I could agree that TCW ruined Grievous.
Now everybody has the lame chance to say that Grievous sucks just cause he lost to Gungans. It is sad.

 

It is impossible to reconcile the two Grievous's and always will be, so there's no point in even trying.

Miniseries Grievous overpowered Shaak Ti.

Shaak Ti, who was probably the most powerful female Jedi of her time - essentially the female Mace Windu. Shaak Ti, who went head to head with a guy who casually yanks mile-long battleships out of the sky, and almost killed him.

TCW Grievous fought Ahsoka Tano twice and failed to defeat her both times.

The end. Trying to gel them together and explain it just won't work.

 

Yep, this topic has been discussed countless times in this forum alone.

Grievous' somewhat underpowered nature is certainly one of my biggest pet peeves in this show. It seems that the television media can't seem to get the right portrayal of the cyborg general--he's either too powerful (microseries) or too weak at times (TCW). But I agree with the folks here that Grievous did have his moments of badassery in some episodes like Grievous Intrigue and Massacre, but these are tempered by his pitiful showings in duels with Ahsoka (Duel of the Droids), Asajj Ventress (Massacre), and most notably of all, the Gungans (Shadow Warrior). But really, perhaps what's worse than his combat showings is the fact that he seems all too often to be an incompetent military leader in TCW. The only resounding victory he seems to have scored on the show against the Republic is in Bound for Rescue, and even then he's forced to flee and loses a chunk of his forces when Obi-Wan sets the Venator-class cruiser he's boarded to self-destruct.

What TCW should have done to remedy these issues was to balance his portrayal by giving him more convincing military victories and actually show him killing a Jedi or two (doesn't have to be a Master, could be a Knight or Padawan) in lightsaber combat (unlike Vebb, who was killed by a blaster after being trapped in a blade-lock). Still holding out hope that they can resolve Eeth Koth's fate in the bonus content with an epic duel between him and Grievous, where the general vanquishes the Jedi Master and claims his lightsaber as his own.

 

At least to me there was a difference between the ROTS Grievous and the TCW Grievous; in my eyes he appeared at least a tad more powerful and threatening in TCW than in ROTS but it's not a huge difference.

 

*ohlookitsthisthreadagain.jpg*

 

Grievous was ruined ever since ROTS. He might've been a bit overpowered in the Micro series, but I'd take that over the embarrassing turn he has in ROTS/TCW.

 

TCW did a much better job of portraying what force users are supposed to be like. The micro series portrayed them as superman type characters. TCW portrayed them as more realistic type characters. No where (accept for maybe in the EU books) is it presented that force users are supermen. TCW did a much bettter job of staying true to how force users are portrayed in the movies.

 

Dude, we're all aware of that. In fact I once made this crazy textwall about it.

"General Grievous is my favorite character...that spot used to be filled by Revan, but Bioware has killed that character. People say that he sucked in the movie and to that I say "HE. WAS. INJURED!" The last episode of Genndy's Clone Wars established that, and by all logic he should've died. So it makes sense that he wasn't the best fighter in the galaxy anymore by Episode 3. He was barely even breathing.

BUT in The Clone Wars, he's just a pussy and a terrible fighter by default. You know what I noticed? They took the traits he displayed in E3: Coughing, Terrible Fighting, Cowardice, Spider Walking, 4 arms and that ONE TIME he talked about his Lightsabers and they made that his entire character. That's why I hate TCW writers, they take a handful of traits and made that everything that he is. Now he coughs all the time, he always talks about adding lightsabers to his collection, as if it's his ****ing catch phrase, and always ****ing grunts, and screams. General Grievous was probably one of the coolest characters in all of Star Wars, hell it's easy as hell to make him cool, he's a cybrg with Lightsabers.

But now they've reduced him to some mustache twirling, Saturday morning cartoon villain, because apparently, he was terrible the whole time and Genndy's version is either noncanon or irrelevant. And do you know why? Because Lucas can't allow anyone to be better than Vader. The same things with Boba, The same thing with Maul, the same thing with Jango, and, although it was by the hand of a different company, Revan. Once a character gets too popular, too cool and once they start flying too high. Lucasfilm yanks the leash and does...something...to ruin them. Whether it's death, retcons or just copy and pasting dialogue. The perfect example of how poorly handled the General is has to be with this fight.


Now let me copy and paste something of my own.

This fight is the perfect example of why TCW did no justice to Grievous. Nothing but Copy and Paste from episode 3: The foot stomps, the spider walk, the force push, the constant grunting, They even did variations on the same lines. Another thing is the Gungan, brawl he had. Now....that's just embarrassing, while at the very least it wasn't Jar Jar that took him down, that just proves how much of a non issue the general is now. Although, I've heard that the Gungan army is actually very skilled, and let's be honest here, Grievous is not capable of taking down an entire army. Jar jar, completely ruined the image of the Gungan race, in Episode 1, so it's not beyond belief that they ARE skilled besides him, especially since they held off the Droid Army with EMPs in episode 1. Anyway, I'm still kind of disgusted by the concept of Grievous being beaten by Gungans of all things, we're talking about the Knightslayer here, he should at least be able to kill more than one. They portray him now, as a cheating coward that's nigh incapable of beating anyone on his own and that's just bull****.

I'm also knowledgeable of them wanting to change Grievous' origin into "I want to be a Jedi, so I guess I'll just become a cyborg" That's it.....no character arc, no elaborate story, just envy towards Jedi driving him to become a cyborg. Why? Why change a decent origin story, that has some actual thought put into it, into some kind of generic bull****? FYI, the actual origin is under heavy debate because the EU treats it like Historians argue over what exactly made Grievous a cyborg. So technically, both are canon. But Filoni wants to make the new one canon, and I genuinely hope he leaves it alone.

And finally, I'm fully aware that it was Lucas, not Genndy that came up with Grievous. I also know that the Genndy series is pretty over the top, but at least there, Grievous was more than just some Mario tier villain that Obi Wan and his friends fight every other week.

So that's my rant....goodbye."

 

Let's not get on the bash the micro series bandwagon here, because LOE novel did the same to Grevious. Not only was he overpowered in the book (levitating and using all his hands and legs with lightsabers and taking on mutiple jedi for sport) but he had a brain which both in the movie (not the movie novelization) and the clone wars second series he was a buffon who ran away. Never really a serious threat.

Also, we have to be careful when we say over the top stuff cause the new series gave us the uber powerful Mortis beings, and for those that say yeah but that is debatable, then how do you explain Darth Maul surviving a fall from hell and being cut in half? Did the Emperor levitate back up in ROTJ? (Dont bring in EU Dark Empire). What about Mother Talzoin and her abilities. I'm just saying here cuase we get on this overpowered bandwagon and this series also had its moments.

 

Already has been discussed

 

While I agree with most of Mzukiller's rant, I feel I must disagree with one point: I don't think any of that is to build up Darth Vader. Unless, that is, you consider his new origin of being a whiny emo in the most wooden, unbelievable romance possible, along with now constantly screaming "NOOOO!" to be building him up. Because I don't. I think the point is the opposite - George and co. realized that the villains of Star Wars are some of the most cool, interesting, and generally badass characters in fiction, and so deliberately set out to tear them down.

 

I was about to say something similar. Indeed, it seems like GL is adverse to showing any compitent villains. Though Lucas having no clue what he's doing is of no surprise to me.

 

Yes, because there's never been a single competent villain in the entire series...oh wait

 

I dont think Grievous was ruined. He is much more realistic in TCW than in the micro series. Micro series grievous was over the top nonsense. TCW grievous is nearly exact the same as PT Grievous.

Those TCW PNGs are realy awesome btw.

 

Exactly, the only thing he has going for him in these new apperances is his physical appearance.

 

XD the emperor reminds me of voldemort except he has nose

 

Sorry to go off topic, but please don't quote a lengthy picture-filled post again, Tevase2, especially for a comment like that. It needlessly clogs up the page and I think I speak for others as well when saying this.

 

Sorry

 

sorry but maul and savage as decent villains? ?? ??

really?

maul was cool but brought back for nothing and savage was some terrible voodoo clone

 

The Maul Story is not over yet.

Opress was not a villain, he was a classical pawn/minion.

 

Maul defeated Obi-Wan, convinced Death Watch to take him and his brother in, formed the Shadow Collective, masterminded the takeover of Mandalore, saw Vizsla's betrayal coming and defeated him, took Death Watch as his own, and foresaw Obi-Wan's arrival and capitalized on it. As for Savage, he singlehandedly took the Temple of Eedit, held his own against Dooku and Ventress and Anakin and Obi-Wan, found Maul and rescued him, defeated Obi-Wan by himself, killed Adi Gallia, defeated Black Sun and Embo, and lasted longer against Darth Effing Sidious than Fisto, Kolar, and Tiin combined.

Thing is, bro, I never said "decent." I said "competent."