TV Discussion The Official LACWAC Star Wars General Discussion Thread

For when discussions in all manner of threads inevitably morph into Star Wars discussions/debates that are no longer related to that thread's intended topic...we should use this thread.

 

But we already have a social thread for everything off topic.
http://boards.theforce.net/live_action_clone_wars_classics/b10467/27030499/p1/?1356


What we do need is some sort of mascot.

 

Well, I thought as a social thread that was more for non-Star Wars related things. And the TCW general discussion thread, as well as the ratings threads, are always going off-topic about other Star Wars stuff. So this isn't meant to be used as a social thread. When TCW threads go off-topic people take their discussions to the TCW general thread. Now people (including myself) can move their non-TCW Star Wars discussions to this thread.

 

No, this thread makes sense. The social thread is intended more for personal or "real world" stuff. A small place to discuss general Star Wars issues with the LACWAC community is certainly in order. Stuff like the upcoming Saga blu-ray fits better here than the social thread.

Someone please enlighten the man...

 

Yes, this can be the discussion for anything SW, TCW-related or not.

 

Meh, does make sense, but I rather use the PT/OT boards.

 

I rarely visit any of the other boards.

 

Every time I stray out of LACWAC I immediately kill off the first thread I post in. So I appreciate this thread.

 

You guys are all going off-topic (myself included).

 

Very true... Shame on us. But, at least the next time Swash and I get into it about costumes versus CGI in the films we'll have somewhere to go where we won't be off-topic.

 

I'd rather not have the monkey lizard attack me please.

 

Finally someplace I can I ask this question . I've always wondered if the emperor kept saying everything was going according to his plan and he has forseen everything, then why in return of the Jedi did he not forsee the fact that Luke was gonna turn his father back to the good and that vader was going to betray and kill him so he could prevent it from happening???

 

Obviously that was one thing he didn't see. It's most likely he saw things going differently and was taken by surprise when Vader put the squeeze on him.

Answer: Palpatine was not omniscient.

Luke's Answer: "Your overconfidence is your weakness."

 

I always found it interesting to contemplate how much the Emperor really can foresee. Certainly he believed Vader was 100% his slave and probably thought it impossible to turn back from the Dark Side.

One thing I always found interesting in the films is when a character says the Force is "with" us or with another character.

Example; AOTC - Dooku to Sidious "The Force is with us".

ANH - Vader to Tarkin - "Obi-Wan is here...the Force is with him."

ESB - Vader to Luke "The Force is with you, young Skywalker".


Can strong Force users sense somehow when the Will of the Force is with them or another person? Was Dooku telling Sidious that not only are things going well, but the Force is with them too. Did Vader get a little spooked because not only Kenobi was onboard the Death Star, but the Force was with him too?

 

Also another one of my questions. When it's said that he's an unaltered clone does that mean Order 66 wasn't put into Boba???

 

Boba was not conditioned to follow Order 66 and it is unlikely he even knew of it.


Garth, I too find that interesting.

Sometimes it's like saying "God is on our side", other times it seems to refer to momentum in the tug of war between the light and the dark, like saying "things are going our way". Most people would just call it luck.

"The Force will be with you, always". Obi-Wan says it with such conviction, it obviously suggests something more than simple Force-sensitivity.

 

Since we were talking about the final confrontation between Palpatine, Vader and Luke in ROTJ, I'll mention something that's always bugged me. Would Luke have killed Vader and turned to the Dark Side if Palpatine had just kept his mouth shut and let Luke follow his emotions, instead of clapping, laughing and insisting on pointing out to Luke that his actions were leading him to the Dark Side? I mean, Luke is all enraged and about to cut down helpless Vader when Palps interrupts him to remind him that his journey to the Dark Side is almost complete.

 

Always in motion is the future. And many possible futures there are.

Nah I reckon that Luke would get a flash of humanity on the brink of delivering the killing blow and stop himself. Most people when it comes to the actual killing blow realise they can't do it. The Emperor should have known better though.

 

Boba, being an unaltered clone, was just a normal child with no clone training. As such, Order 66 wasn't even related to him.

Interesting stuff. Never thought about that.

 

Lovely thread is going here.
Palpatine is a great manipulator and he can use unpleasant turn of events to his benefit and predict all possible outcomes. And then, in front of his officers and Vader he would state that he has forseen all this.

And I'm pretty sure that all possible outcomes would bring him benefits. Look:
1) Anakin kills Obi and then kills Palpatine. Not a good outcome for Palpatine's flesh but very good outcome for the Sith. Young and healthy Anakin will be completely turned to the Dark Side and will rule the Galaxy as a Sith Lord.
2) Anakin crippled by Kenobi. Good outcome, but not as good as Palpatine hoped.
3) Anakin killed. Not as bad as it sounds. Palp will continue to rule the Galaxy by himself.
4) Luke kills Vader and Palpatine. He will be turned to the Dark Side and will continue Sith rule of the Galaxy. So for that Palp provokes Luke. If Luke cannot kill Vader than he must kill the Emperor.
5) Luke kills Vader. He will become Palp's apprentice and his successor. Best outcome.
6) Luke refuses to kill Vader. For that Luke will die.
So Palp had his positions pretty covered exept Anakin's treachery.

 

But it seems like Sidious always needed someone to be an apprentice, which is why he needed Maul, Dooku, and Vader.

 

Can strong Force users sense somehow when the Will of the Force is with them or another person? Was Dooku telling Sidious that not only are things going well, but the Force is with them too. Did Vader get a little spooked because not only Kenobi was onboard the Death Star, but the Force was with him too?

It seems like there are multiple meanings to the phrase. Sometimes it seems to mean that the Force is actually willing someone to succeed, or even actively helping them out. Then sometimes it seems to just mean "I have a good feeling about this". Or it could mean that someone has power and the ability to use it. So in ANH I think Vader meant that Obi-Wan had come to the Death Star with purpose and that the power he brought with him was going to cause trouble, whether the Force was actually 'on his side' or not.

Any character can never really use the Force to see the whole 'big picture' - if they could then they would already know the outcome of their actions before they did them. So they would know whether they would succeed or fail and then adjust them accordingly. Rather, they can see an extrapolation from the present based on their own knowledge of their own power and coloured by their own perspective. So when Dooku says to Sidious that 'the Force is with us' he may mean that he is pleased with their own power and that if they continue in the same way they will achieve their goals.

So sometimes I think that Force users gain insight that the Force is actually guiding them and they put their trust in it to lead them to a positive outcome. Other times they have a certain understanding of how things are unfolding, but they are basing their assessment of their fortune on their own perspective and putting faith in their own abilities to turn things in their favour.


Since we were talking about the final confrontation between Palpatine, Vader and Luke in ROTJ, I'll mention something that's always bugged me. Would Luke have killed Vader and turned to the Dark Side if Palpatine had just kept his mouth shut and let Luke follow his emotions

Luke does day that Palpatine's overconfidence was his weakness, so his actions there might have been a mistake. By gloating too much he allowed Luke to see the dark side for waht it was and that meant he was more able to resist it. Palpatine overestimated the hold that he had over Luke at that point. Luke may still not have turned though, even if Palpatine had taken a different approach, since it was also Luke's compassion for Vader that enabled him to resist turning to the dark side. After he defeated Vader by giving in to anger, he was reminded by looking at his own cybernetic hand and realising that he risked becoming like Vader. So I think that Luke may well have not turned anyway, but Palpatine ultimately did not help his own cause because he underestimated Luke in some ways.

 

The infamous Rule of Two.
His apprentices were acting more like his "hands" in killing Jedi, setting up Separatist rebellion and cleaning up a way to Anakin. Anakin was meant to be his true successor.
But After Order 66 post-Mustafar Vader became useless to Palpatine - no Jedi left to worry about and Vader's physical condition is questinable is he ever to inherit the emperial throne, so Palp had to wait until some homebrew Jedi shows up, strong enough in the Force to kill him and Vader, and try to turn him to the DS.

 

If we're to take the EU into account in our consideration of this question, I think we can safely assume it's likely that as he was saying those things he was also attempting to use the Force to manipulate Luke's mind. Your point still remains that this may have accelerated Luke's realization that he was using the Dark Side and had to stop, but it makes it less dumb on Palpatine's part.