Lit Books A/V The original intent for the "Legends" banner

After 8 years of Legends becoming it's own thing, separate from the current media, i think that we, and the people at Lucasfilm, forgot what the supposed intent was for clasifying the stories "Legends" instead of just "Non-Canon", it was for the Legends stories to still be able to be referenced when the creators wanted, as in "there's always some truth in Legends", it wasn't necessarily canon, it was it's own thing, but parts of it could be ambiguously canon, hinting at some parts of it being "recanonized" so to speak.

As time went on, we saw parts of the Legends world be recanonized, but in a completely different way than what it was hinted at at the beginning, we got Thrawn, for example, but every time something from Legends gets "picked up" by Canon, it's not the same character or element from the original stories where it appeared, it is a new version, the Canon version and the Legends version exist separate, this Canon Thrawn is not the same Thrawn as in Outbound Flight, he hasn't met Palpatine yet, and has a different relationship with the Prequel Era, we don't get direct references to large EU stories that make them ambiguously canon, the most we got was Tarkin referencing Cloak of Deception, but that honestly might be because the book was being made originally as a Legends (then EU) book, or Luceno being Luceno.

So the original intent (Legends to be something one could still consider Canon if one so wishes) slowly eroded as the New EU was being developed, as these new versions of the characters completely contradicted any possibility of the original versions ever existing, but it still had it's bastion in the RPG area, which mixed aspects from both continuities (to mixed success).

However, with the upcoming KOTOR remake, i see a glimpse of a full return to this original intent: The new remake is apparently going to retain the original plot, with some expansions yes, but it will remain, in a way, separate from Canon, at least explicitly, but the fact that we are getting something like that, on top of the various hints at Revan in the TROS visual dictionary, seem to indicate a loose connection between the remake and the current media, while they are not adjusting the story to make it better fit with the High Republic, essentially keeping it as Legends, they are indirectly referencing it in Canon, and it's getting the same spotlight as the rest of the Canon video games (even more so considering how beloved KOTOR is), so i think this is an indication of them subtlely telling us KOTOR could be considered a legend that actually happened, going back to the original intent for Legends.

We also got, over time, subtle references to the Tartakovsky Clone Wars TV show and a bit of the CW multimedia project, that while they are not directly referencing it, it leaves it open for one to interpret it in that way, as this post from @HEDGESMFG recounts:

So, in a way, i think we are going closer to this being done in more prevalent ways with the KOTOR remake and these new books and shows that are coming out, perhaps some loose references to current SWTOR media in the High Republic, or the upcoming Tales of the Jedi series revisiting some places from the original TOTJ and referencing some of the wars, not directly canonizing entire sections of Legends, or mixing the two canons in one, but doing it in such a way that you can please both the people that want Legends and Canon to remain separate, each with it's own versions of events and lore, and the people that want to headcanon their favorite Legends storylines to have happened in the current media as well.

For that, i think we should have less characters being "recanonized", less events being reinterpreted and brought back from the grave, and more focus on simply referencing these entirely Legends works in meaningful ways, while working entirely on new characters and concepts, make the current Canon have more of it's own identity and be independent, but respecting the legacy of Legends at the same time, instead of making a cheaper version of what came before that completely negates the original version ever being Canon, at the very least, canonized versions of Legends characters should leave it open for their Legends stories to still apply, like they did with Durge in the new comics.

Needless to say, i'm optimistic for how they are handling this in the last few years, much better than in the early years of the current Canon.

But what do all of you think of this? You think i'm being too unrealistic? What is the best way to handle the relationship between Canon and Legends?

 

I don't believe that was the original intent. "Legends" was just a catchy, respectful name to rebrand the EU under. It was very clearly and very strictly non-canon with no ambiguity. Yes, references could be brought into canon, but that's it; all it means is there's a Sith Lord who used the name Revan in canon, not that his entire Legends character is ambiguously canon or anything.

Personally, I'd rather Lucasfilm tried to accommodate Legends less. References are fine, but they can get in the way if canon wants to tell a different story. Then suddenly there's the canon version but also some wishy-washy "maybe this different version of events also happened" appended to it.

 

I would also have to disagree about the purpose of "Legends", but I do think that there's a distinction to be made between "recanonizing" and referencing.
I'd argue that things like the Sith legion names, THR's Surik's blade, and Dryden Vos' Exar Kun desk aren't creating canonical versions of those characters so much as they're referencing the Legends versions.

 

Sequel Shills/EU Haters just tried to use it to defame it.

 

By Sequel Shills/EU Haters I mean those who attack others for not liking it, not ST fans in general. The toxic ones.

 

I feel like that argument has been over for several years now. Most of the people who are solely interested in the old EU and don't read the new stuff have largely formed their own communities now. Most of the interactions we have these days on this board are from people who like both.

 

Didn’t the “Legends vs. Canon” distinction originate from the way Wookieepedia decided to split up its articles? The original announcement on starwars.com doesn’t make that distinction, it just says that the post-ROTJ EU storyline was being discontinued.

 

I don't know if it's the original announcement, but this one has this:

 

It just uses post-ROTJ as an example, but it's clear that the EU as a whole was being shifted aside.

 

Right, but it only uses the word “canon” in reference to the movies and TV shows. Unless there was a later announcement I don’t remember, I don’t think the intention was to create a hard divide between “Legends” print media and “canon” print media; IIRC Lucasfilm employees and the fandom at large only adopted that terminology after Wookieepedia started splitting up their pages with it.

 

That same article mentions A New Dawn as something separate from the the "Legends banner" EU stories.

 

Yeah I also disagree with the OP. It was always clear that everything besides the 6 movies and TCW was now non-canon, and the old EU would be tagged "Legends" for people to still read but know it's not canon. It was then left to individual writers/directors/authors/etc. how much they wanted to use. And, for example, if new Star Wars mentioned "Darth Revan" for example, it only canonized that name, nothing else was canonized until detailed.

 

It also doesn’t call the new material canon, though. It’s like pulling teeth to get any of the usual LFL suspects to comment one way or the other on canon; Matt Martin famously said that he doesn’t care about it and anything you want to be canon can be canon. It seems like an intentional omission that they avoided explicitly calling the EU non-canon or the new spinoff material canon.

 

No, it’s been quite clear.

But since there’s been one reboot, there could always be another, in another 40-50 years.

 

For clarifiaction: I do not mean that it wasn't a way to say it was explicitly non-canon for the new stuff, that intent was obvious, i'm saying that it was different than just non-canon, i'm talking about the original intent for calling it Legends, which is basically saying "It could be canon if you want", meaning that it wasn't a set up to pick and choose elements form it and canonize them, but to reference the Legends works themselves.

The reason it was called Legends was "Oh we can still use stuff form it if we want", which is present even in the earliest announcement of the decanonization, which has been interpreted in a completely different way than originally, in a way that further differentiates the timelines instead of uniting them.

 

People that hate the EU for no reason other than jealously (I guess; I can't figure it out) have been trying to claim that it was Non-Canon the whole time, but if it was, why would that have to TELL you? But yeah, it seems that Luceno, Miller and Zahn especially live by their EU. Claudia Gray, Cavan Scott and George Mann seem to reference it alot.

 

I honestly never understood that mindset, it wasn't the main canon anymore, what do you gain by denying something that is factual by the same statements that decanonize it? lol.

Zahn has always kept to his own sandbox, so the reboot didin't affect him much aside from losing Mara, if anything him being able to change stuff he established allowed for him to keep writing new stories to this day, so i' d say the reboot helped Zahn more than anything, Luceno is a master for sure, and like i said one of the examples of those who treat the concept of Legends with the nuance it should have.

Yes, and i'm glad we are apparently going further in that direction.

 

I see wisdom in Disney separating legends and canon, so that tales & characters fans love remain as they are. However, it has divided the fanbase further with people arguing “that’s not canon,” and making that their trump card in an argument akin to saying “GL, The Maker, says.. end of discussion.”
I like the idea of legends being legends that can be adopted or abandoned by canon, that there is hope we will see favorites in new media, but your favorite version of the character surviving in legends.
That said, Disney is ignoring beloved tales and characters to create a very narrow timeline of High Republic, Prequels, and events either during the OT or after. I don’t quite understand why they are keeping AGFFA in such narrow galaxy.

In the end I will be a Legends first fan, because canon is retconning and making established canon dizzying. I still will watch canon, but it mostly bores me. I suppose I am a heretic (since I am not into canon).

 

Funny, I completely disagree with that being the original intent.

For me, Legends was absolutely making ti clear none of the previous material was going to be part of the new universe. It wasn't throwing it away but it was establishing it as a separate universe. They wanted the freedom to develop their own universe and did so. There was never going to be some kind of necromantic Frankenstein where some Legends stories were canon and others were not. It was a clean break and the best thing they could do to introduce Star Wars EU to new audiences.

I'm not sure how they could have been more clear either. I think fans who were thinking otherwise were hoping to see it not decanonized but I don't think that was ever in the cards and I'm wondering if that will be the case with Knights of the Old Republic as an exception but a unique one.

 

The thing that plays out in my head the most significantly was the announcement of a Jaina-centric series called Sword of the Jedi. Soon after that, Disney bought Lucasfilm and the new idea was scrapped. Now, personally, I wasn't losing much by DNT, LotF, and FotJ being decanonized, what hurt me was the entire expulsion of the EU. They could've fixed the problems Anakin's death caused, instead they forced him to the fate of never having existed at all.

 

If your plans were to give a free hand to storytellers, the EU being canon was unfixable.

Also, if you didn't want to have the galaxy invaded by Space Aztecs that kill trillions.

 

The original intent for the Legends banner was to provide a way for publishers to keep older material in print while, in theory at least, preventing confusion by clearly differentiating stories that are in-(current) continuity from those that aren't. That's pretty much it. Feel free to debate the extent to which that has been successful, but the point is that it's specifically a publishing thing. That's why things like the Ewok movies or the old cartoons on Disney Plus aren't marked as "Legends." We tend to use them synonymously, but "Legends" and "the EU" really aren't the same thing. (Usually the point is irrelevant, but I figured it was important to point that out in a thread literally titled "the original intent of the Legends banner.")

Something else I think is important to point out is that in the post-Lucas era there is ample evidence the creators do not think of concepts like "canon," "non-canon," "the EU," etc. the way fans do. See for example, some of Pablo's old tweets about how canon simply means "other stories need to take it into account." I think we construct a lot of these things out of our own beliefs and assume the creators think similarly, which may not be the case.

 

Quite. For somewhere like Lit canon is more a framework for discussions, what comparisons can and can't work in continuity for instance. It doesn't rule out comparisons between both continuities either. It's a minimal structure.

Where it gets more interesting is how the new material develops now with the amount of material it has. The attraction can't now be "you can do anything you want", the creative challenge is working with and respecting existing material. They can't do another reboot.