The origins of Darth and Sith names

The Vader Ultimate Guide gave us a new Darth: Darth Ruin. He was the Sith who started the New Sith Wars, 2000 years before ANH, which connects the Darths a little more now. When KOTOR was released it gave us 3 new Darths, placings the origins of the name far before the events of the New Sith Wars, since it was believed at that time the Sith started using Darth at the time of the Battle of Ruusan (Bane, Rivan).

While there wasn't really a problem with the origin of the Darths going back to the period of the Mandalorian Wars, KOTOR did screw up some things. While Revan and Malak simply added Darth to their name, the other Sith Lords we know of took a Sith name (Maul, Tyranus, Vader, etc...). I used to think the Sith name may have been something added later, but in KOTOR II we already had (not sure about Sion) Nihilus and Traya. Since the Trayus academy has been around for several millenia and Kreia said there must always be a Darth Traya, the origins of the Darth name might go back to thousands of years before the Great Hyperspace War. Since both Atris and Kreia have been Darth Traya, it is definitely a Sith name. It is interesting that all the users of the Darth name(except maybe Bandon) we know from KOTOR era visited Malachor V. So the origins of the name can probably be found on that planet.

Still, it doesn't make sense that only a part (I find it hard to believe that Nihilus always had this name, and Sion could be a Sith name) of them took Sith names. Did Malak and Revan overlook something at the Trayus Academy? Did they only find part of information that Kreia found?

 

Are we totally sure Revan and Malak did keep there original names? I could just see everyone refering to them as their new Sith names to avoid confusion. It also helps the Jedi distance themselves from them, ie 'it was Revan' as opposed to 'it was so-and-so Jedi, who went evil'

 

Revan & malak I truely doubt where their real names...Obi Won refers to Vader as being his real name in ANH. Now I know Lucas didnt keep to his original plans on the character...but perhaps this type of thing was carried over to KOTOR as sorta homage,of referring to fallen jedi by their Sith names..Besides much of the Storyline in KOTOR is very mysterious.

 

Revan and Malak are always referred to as Revan and Malak, even before they were Sith. The Exile calls them Revan and Malak, and he/she wasn't around for their fall into Sithdom.

And since the Light Side ending is canon, it would be silly to keep calling Revan by his Sith title.

 

yes I suppose you could say that ...but than that destroys the Sith tradition of and whole point of the Darth Title thing,and therefore renders the Darth pointless and stupid..One would also have to assume their lots of incompetent writers/workers over at LucasArts,as they cant seem to stay inconsistent or make up their minds on whats what.


If this was also the case then they should of just kept their names like Naga Sadow,Exar Kun ect,their absolutely no point in taking the Darth before their real name,cause if they do,its for no purpose/significance at all. We are alos left with no explaination as to why names like Sidious,Vader,Rivan,Bane and Ruin ect are chosen..again,why dont they keep their regualr names,why they choose names with meanings of destruction or Power for? Nah it doenst make sense!


And,Darth Bane are we to believe was running around his regular name as just Bane? or Plagueis the same thing?! No I do not think so...


Its just a game whose story is imcomplete.Or maybe the writers got lazy?

 

Its just a game whose story is imcomplete.Or maybe the writers got lazy?

Perhaps, but I'm searching for a in-universe explanation. And Revan and Malak were their real names, as pointed out by EH_pilot. He's also called Revan in the KOTOR II cutscene where the Exile has to appear before the Council. This took place before the Jedi Civil War (I hate that name) and Revan hadn't taken his title of Darth at this point.

 

Perhaps somewhere in the three thousand years between, the "Sith tradition" changed so the name of the person that assumed that title of "Darth" also changed their real name with it?

EDIT- I just realized that in KOTOR 2, the Sith Lords all use names that differ from their real names. So perhaps the tradition was started in the Trayus Academy's teaching, but was lost with Malachor V's destruction, and Darth Bane invented it again three thousand years later.

 

If you remember ROTS, they don't choose their Sith titles. The title of Darth _________ is bestowed by the master when he accepts you as his apprentice.

I think the title may have started at Malachor V, or at some point after Revan and Malak first learned of the SF. Before then, we have Sith lords who go by their real names, even Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma were not given the Darth Title by Freedon Nadd.

I want to know (in-universe) where the word 'Darth' comes from. It is probably of ancient Sith origin, but where would Revan and Malak have accessed the Sith artifacts? They clearly did not appreciate any of the Sith alchemy or illusions from TOTJ, which leads me to beleve that they did not know much about the ancient Sith.

Maybe some Jedi with a wierd accent told them they were falling to the Dark Side, but it came out as Darth Side and they thought it sounded funny so they kept the title.

 

I think the pointv was to strike fear in their enemy. Maul, he's gonna maul you. Tyranus, brining about tyranny. Sidious, an insidious politican, I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.

Revan and Malak were well known warriors, so when they become Sith and want to start a war, they use those familiar names because the people who were under thier command know what they can do with a an armada, or to those who saw them in person combat, a lightsaber. That would be scary, to see your hero return with a nasty Darth in front of thier name.

Now Exar Kun and his sith. They didn't follow the established tradition. I'm not stating a fact, I'm just pointing out an explanation. They didn't want to use Darth. Doesn't mean it wasn't invented yet, they just didn't use it yet.



So why did Revan and Malak return to the use of this moniker? Well, it is said that the reason Revan attaced the Old Republic was to prep them up for the True Sith attack that he knew was bound to come. So he probably knew that they would use the Darth title, so he wanted to prepare them for it. So when he's gone, because eaither way he leaves to go to the UR, they'll see this new threat and go "Oh, another Darth, we now how they work, we just have to find out how they differ from the others."


So it came before kun and Qel-Droma, now lets pin-point exactly who orginated it. It wasn't Naga Sadow, or Freedon Nadd, but somewhere after that.

 

"Darth," certainly, but not "Traya." Kreia was speaking figuratively, meaning, as she elaborates later on, that "the galaxy will need its betrayers." Atris was never a Sith, she was just another of Darth Traya's pawns, and admits how she was duped and betrayed after the exile defeats her.

I noticed that, too. One possibility is that it all goes back to Darth Andeddu. Though the ancient Sith Empire was ruled over one Dark Lord of the Sith, the lesser Sith Lords who made up the Sith Council seem to have ruled over their own little semi-independent fiefdoms, like Naga Sadow on Khar Shian and Ludo Kressh on Rhelg. If Darth Andeddu's personal stronghold was Malachor V, then all the Sith teachings that Revan and Traya learned there could be traced back to him.

I'd just chalk it up to personal preference, really. Revan and Malak liked their names, so they just added Darth to the beginning. Even in Bane's new Darth-exclusive Order, changing your name doesn't appear to have been mandatory, as in Darth Zannah's case.

 

And "Vader" is what now? Vader, he's gonna... be your father?

 

Invader?


I don't know what every Sith title is meant to mean, but I'm sure its something.


And in some languages, Vander does mean father.

 

They probably found these artifacts at Malachor V, which was an "ancient centre of knowledge" according to Kreia. Considering how old the Trayus Academy is the Sith teachings might have been slightly different then and perhaps Sith alchemy hadn't been explored much by this time. Or there were several Sith factions who focused on different teachings.

A good explanation. Sion, Nihilus and Traya probably took different names because they weren't that well known and it was better for them to conceal their real names.

Interesting. It has been suggested before that Andeddu could predate Revan and Malak. Revan visited both Korriban and Malachor V. If Andeddu indeed came from Malachor V Revan could have found his holocron there and took it with him to finally leave it on Korriban where Quinlan Vos picked it up during the Clone Wars. I doubt that he was the founder of the Trayus academy though, there should have been another Darth Traya before him.

 

Note that though Zannah is the character's "real" name, in a sense Zannah is the equivalent of a Sith-like name change for "Rain" given the unusual importance she and the rest of the kids in Jedi vs. Sith gave to their nicknames.

Take care,
Abel

 

The idea of bestowing a "Darth" title, and changing your name was probably lost with Malachor V, only to be rediscovered in the Bane era.

We're assuming that the Sith Order's rules are universal. The teachings at Malachor were probably just a single sect of the Sith Order, and was simply lost and forgotten over time.

 

So when he's Evil he's Darth Revan,but when he's good he just Revan. I myself dont buy it. Not only does he still use the same name,the evil deeds he commmited will always be rememebered.The man will be a walking target and despised on every system just about,as his name alone would be hated universally and not be repected...His name will live in infamy as it would always be synonymous with Evil and Sith lord.

Darth names are meant to instill dread and fear and/or have some religous or divine significance.

What I had come up with a while back was this:

Darth Bandon= Abaddon is a Biblical Hebrew word meaning "destruction".It was a Demon.

Darth Malak= Adar-Malik is another demon,a servant of Baal.And was the senator of Demons in hell.


Now before people think I'am getting carried a way,you should keep in mind that Malak's ship was called the The Leviathan ,which was actually a Bibical Sea Beast.Which also has become synonymous with any large monster or creature.So the bibical references should not be ignored.

 

The problem with biblical references etc. is that when they do give us hints what the person(s) who invented them based them on, they should also work in the context of the SW universe. There´s no Bible in the SW universe. The inventors of course don´t always realise this themselves when they think they have invented a good name, but...

By the way, couldn´t Darth Bandon just be Abandon? I think I saw this possibility mentioned somewhere.

 

DarthRavenus: Revan is actually incredibly popular. Not only was he incredibly popular as a Sith, with millions if not billions of people swarming to join the Sith invasion, but he saved the Republic twice, once from the Mandalorians and again from Malak. He may have been "evil", but he wasn't brutal or destructive like Malak. There's no reason for the galaxy to hate him.

Aside from that, Revan was always his name. All he and Malak did were add "Darth" to it.

However, it's important to realize Revan never had a Sith master. It's possible he never saw the need to change his name when he became a Sith Lord, and decided to name his apprentice and old friend, Malak, Darth Malak, and that he got this "Darth" idea from the Sith teachings at Malachor V. And when Malachor V was destroyed in KOTOR2, it was lost until Darth Bane's era.

Sound good?

 

<<There´s no Bible in the SW universe. >>

This doenst mean much when most of the Star Wars Universe was based on Classical Myths along with Bibical references...Their was also no Roman/latin Empire in the Star Wars universe,but yet its littered with Greek and Latin names and allorgies all over...Not to mention Nazi Germany things like Storm Troopers...I think Lucas originally intended Star Wars to take place in the far Future...

Revan was Sith Lord and was still responsible for the lives of Millions and the havoc and devastation he caused whether directly or indirectly doenst matter..He was Conqueor and a Destroyer,he cared little for the lives that where taken in his pursuit of a New Order.He also killed many many Jedi knights..Evil means Evil,their is no misunderstanding,he was not a very nice man....

 

And yet he was a leader of incredible popularity that managed to win the support and loyalty of the planets he conquered not to mention he is to be considered the "Hero of the Republic" at the end of KOTOR.

But that's all beside the point.

 

Richard Kiel, the Jaws from 007, once played a guy called Malak. Some names are just Malakable.

 

Maybe "Darth" is the Sith word for Dark Lord...it makes sense Darth Revan-Dark Lord Revan. All in all it is possible.

 

I certainly agree that either Korriban or Malachor undoubtedly played a role in that selection-process, although it's possible that both Malak and Revan received Sith training from whomever those Korriban Dark Lords were that they grabbed the title from...at best, we're talking about weeks or months of instruction in the rites, but just look at Anakin and Dooku, who were initiated into the Order after committing only one or two major "test" acts.

That doesn't track, since they don't speak English in the GFFA; thus, nobody says "Dark Side" the way we do. In Basic, it likely comes out as "Vroggrkkgangggogg."

[...]

Another point to consider:

It appears (and is generally accepted, although not officially confirmed) that Darth Andeddu lived during or prior to the time of the Great Hyperspace War, owing to his "antique" appearance and the fact that he tenants a rather major monumental edifice on Korriban...one likely slave-constructed during the Sith Empire's salad days, rather than during the later diminished eras.

Enhhhh...I still don't think Andeddu was the ur-progenitor of the "Darth" moniker, although he probably certainly *lived* during the general era in which the name became chichi. He's a Sith I would beggar more hard information upon in some future source from *someone* on high at L

 

That doesn't track, since they don't speak English in the GFFA; thus, nobody says "Dark Side" the way we do. In Basic, it likely comes out as "Vroggrkkgangggogg."



Ummmm....what? When was this confirmed?


Another point to consider:

It appears (and is generally accepted, although not officially confirmed) that Darth Andeddu lived during or prior to the time of the Great Hyperspace War, owing to his "antique" appearance and the fact that he tenants a rather major monumental edifice on Korriban...one likely slave-constructed during the Sith Empire's salad days, rather than during the later diminished eras.



Ah, you see I forgot about him. Where can I get info on him, is it on the Wiki? I doubt it but I'll check. So we assume he was before Sadow and Nadd, so then why did they not use those titles? Same as Kun and Qel-Droma, just didn't want to, prefering thyier own names? Thats something that needs to be figured out. How did choosing the title go from personal prefrence to must?


Well, that can be solved. Bane, he was Darth Bane, and with only 2 Sith one would initiate the other. When there were armies of Sith, the leader could just say "I like this title" and take it, wether its thier name or a Darth moniker. With only two people the apprentice has no choice.


EDIT: Ok, found Darth Andeddu on Wiki, so its a Clone Wars comic.

About his appearence, he looks like Naga Sadow, in the Sith clothing hes wearing. So he may have come after Sadow, even after Nadd. There is evidence to suggest he came both after and before.

Before: Made a holocron, buried on Korriban, looks "antique".

After: Think about it, this guy creates a Sith Academy of Korriban, and then after getting really old, puts all his info in a holocron, an dies. Big monument and burial. Then Revan comes, studies his holocron, puts it back in his burial place, and takes over. He says this guy called himsell Darth Andeddu, and decides to follow suit, but instead uses his own name.

Another possibility for After: He comes even AFTER Revan, after Treya, after all that. Comes to Korriban, finds it in ruins, and rebuilds, then puts all info in a holocron and dies. Buried in his tomb. Less likely than first scenario, but would explain why he isn't in Vally of the Dark Lords.


Discuss!

 

Andeddu could be from anyt time, any sith in the last millennium could have dressed like that just cuz it wanted and maybe his apprentice was nice enough to kill an bury him, or something like that