PT The Palpatine Whisperer ... a collection of musings about Palpatine.

So, in my many years of (on-and-off) writing of fanfic dealing with Palpatine, I have done much reading and study.

This evening, another Palpatine aficionado and I were discussing whether Palpatine qualifies as a narcissist. Some study turned up the following (we didn't agree on all of these; this is my take on him):

What’s Palpatine’s Diagnosis?

For diagnostic criteria for narcissistic personality disorder, we find ...

DSM 1: Grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievement and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

No. He has every talent he thinks he does.


DSM 2: Fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

Well ... we ARE talking about a guy who actually screamed "Unlimited power!!!" while killing Mace Windu ... Although ... does it matter why? I imagine not for the diagnosis, but for the prognosis, yes.

He appears to want power because of the immortality thing; Sith appear to be TERRIFIED of death. The whole point behind wanting to be all powerful is so he doesn't ever have to die. That, and because he was trained that the purpose of the Sith Order is to topple the Jedi from power and retake the galaxy, in revenge for what was done to them. And one can sort of see that. The Jedi built their temple over the old Sith temple … so once he’s Emperor, what does Palaptine do? Raze the Jedi temple to build his palace over it. Of course, Sith want revenge in a 1000 year fit of pique, but the Jedi did take their temple and their artifacts, too. One can see some degree of righteous anger in Palpatine wanting these things back and considering them his.

So Palpatine appears to be power-hungry for reasons, not just to be sadistic or for kicks, or for, as is the reason in narcissism, because of a deep-seated hidden low self-worth. He does, however, meet this criterion, since it does not differentiate according to motivation.


DSM 3: Belief in being “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should be associated with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

I think the key word is "belief." In narcissism, you believe you are or pretend to be more than you actually are. But Palpatine is not some wanna-be who pretends to be the greatest Sith master who ever lived … he IS the greatest Sith master who ever lived. (Unlike my narcissistic writer friend who got a few little chapbooks published and plagiarized some real life references for nonfiction ghost legend books and acted like she won a Pulitzer.) That’s not Palpatine. He doesn’t even publicly advertise himself as a Sith even when he becomes Emperor. A narcissist most certainly would. Because the narcissist is looking for admiration to shore up low self-worth.

I don’t think anyone can accuse Palpatine of having low self-worth. If anything, part of the reason he is how he is, is because his parents treated him as a person of little worth, but he knew differently and was very angry about that. I don't think Palpatine needs anyone's validation, the way a narcissist would. He knows he's gifted.


DSM 4: Requires excessive admiration

I don’t think Palpatine is looking for admiration when he requires his underlings to bow and scrape. He’s looking for obedience.

Some of these underlings are downright dangerous. We’re talking about Wilhuff Tarkin and Lord Vader. They need to be kept in their place because they could kill Palpatine. He chooses the most capable and therefore the most dangerous associates. So, they had better bow and scrape lest they try to take his head off.


DSM 5: Sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

I see this in the sense of expecting favor one has not earned. In one sense, you could say that; in starting a war and killing millions of his fellow beings, Palpatine has not “earned” the loyalty or approval of those beings. But, is he competent to force that loyalty from beings? No one can say he is not competent at achieving his objectives. Everything he tries to do he proves competent at, whereas the narcissist expects to be acknowledged as competent where he is actually incompetent.


DSM 6: Interpersonally exploitive, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his/her own ends

I think this is obvious.


DSM 7: Lacks empathy; is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

This is also obvious. The question of why, however, speaks to whether the individual is a narcissist or a psychopath. The narcissist is oblivious to others’ feelings because he is insecure and needs their validation; the psychopath is oblivious because he is either trained to discount others’ feelings and needs or because of a biological abnormality in the brain that makes the person incapable of noticing or caring.


DSM 8: Envious of others or believes that others are envious of him/her

I don’t see Palpatine as being particularly envious of anyone.


DSM 9: Arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

Others may argue, but I don’t see Palpatine as particularly arrogant or haughty.


This is the heart of narcissism: "The NPD diagnosis in DSM has been criticized for being one-sided and relying primarily on external socially and interpersonally striking and provocative features. As such, it has failed to capture the full range of narcissistic personality pathology, especially the internal vulnerability and insecurity characterized by severe self-criticism, insecurity, confusion, shame, aloneness, and fear." Doesn't sound like Palpatine to me. But it DOES sound a bit like ... Anakin Skywalker!!!

Hm. You could go back and run the whole checklist for Anakin, and I wonder what you’d get??



So, DarthIshtar gave him 2, 3, 5, 7 and I gave him 5 from a certain point of view, and 6 and 7. I just don't agree with 2, because I don't believe he exhibits the trait for the reasons a true narcissist would.

Needed for NPD: 5 of 9. So he has narcissistic traits, but not NPD.

 

I think all this is bogus as this is in clear violation of The Goldwater rule...you shameful unethical people!

In all seriousness though that was an interesting read, I will say that I'm a bit leery of putting psychiatric labels on fictional characters, especially in a fantasy setting. Is he a narcissist? sure, I guess. He's a villain who has control of the galaxy, so it's a bit of a given he would be.
Very well researched, though, so kudos.

 

If you're writing a fic, you want your characters to be internally consistent. So, that's why.

 

true, but I would argue there is a thing of being too consistent that the character becomes cliché. Sure, you want a character to be grounded, but in real life folks aren't consistent 100% of the time

(sorry this is going off topic already haha)

 

Cliche is when they make Palpatine do things just because Hitler did them.

 

it must be lonely at the top. Especially when everyone else is so ****ing dumb.

 

At least Palpatine didn't invade Space!Soviet Union. xD