The real-world basis behind the Jedi teachings?

I have read some things on how Lucas based the backbone of Jedi teachings on Buddhism.

Certainly there are running charactistics between the two, but also some differences.

I am wondering if anyone can shed any light on the inspiration behind the Jedi,... and also what real life philosophies/religions influence the Jedi teachings Lucas puts forward.

Regards

Newteh

 

Star Wars generally and the Jedis specifically are a mosaic of so many concepts of so many different cultures. One can't limit the definition to one religion or civilization.

The eastern through process is evident in the Jedi teachings, that is true. In addition, feudalism, Christianity, Greek/Roman Mythology, Nordic Mythology, Anglo-Saxon Mythology, and the theories of Joseph Campbell are all obvious influences for Jedi teaching and Jedi actions. There are probably any number of influences that I haven't mentioned and that have escaped me for the time being.

No matter what it is in Star Wars, Lucas blends many concepts and cultures together to form it. There isn't just one influence for anything. George is nothing if not a baker with many ingredients.

-Seldon

 

Try my book: Shimmering Sword: Samurai, Western, and Star Wars Sword Fighting. You can do limited browsing on Amazon.com. Check out the table of contents and then do a search for specific terms.

 

Plurimus: Congratulations on getting published.
A very impressive accomplishment.

-Seldon

 

I found alot of stuff on the net relating to Taoism

This article is most interesting in all aspects..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_%28Star_Wars%29

Thanks for the help with the other cultures.

Regards

 

I'd refer to Qi Gong, Reiki and other things.

And, yes, that article is quite good.

I had also suspected, that the Prana and the Mana are the same ... but we must distinct between the individuals *own* "energy" and the one that is generally avalable. Both are not the same. But the owns energy is suppooeted by the general energy.

A friend of mine said that he watched an interview with GL, and that he got the impression that he (GL) knows very much about what we would call "esoterical themes".

 

I found alot of stuff on the net relating to Taoism

BINGO. Most of Lucas's Jedi-spiritualism bares STRONG resemblances to Taoist dogma and philosophy.

Note "Taoism" is pronounced "Daoism". Replace the "T" with a "D" when you say the word.

 

NZPOE,

How can you call Taoism dogamtic, it isn't personal.

For instance Taoists claim that even a certain person denying Tao is an example of Tao, (and 'not wrong', which is typical dogma).

As it is with the Force, even the darkside is part of the Force.


TO me the real-world basis goes back to the Hermetic Philosofy at it's best, which goes back to Egyptian Philosofy, proclaiming all things are one, thesis and antithesis, only differing in polarity.

 

Read even more into Taoism... concentrated on the Tao more than any deities.

There are definately alot of resemblances between the fictional force and the Tao .. so many that its even believeable that the Tao is a real life "force" in everything else than name.

Found this article which is quite good:

http://www.exn.ca/starwars/taoism.cfm

Regards..

 

As for the Force, wouldn't you agree that all it is is a combination of Telekinesis and ESP?

That's my opinion.

 

There's a new book about connections between Star Wars and Buddhism, The Dharma of Star Wars, by Matthew Bortolin. I've been thinking about getting it. When I first learned about Zen many years ago, I immediately thought of Yoda, and the Jedi have always reminded me of the Shaolin monks.

 

I wouldn't call it "ESP", because things like Buddhism have deep roots in time, sometimes several hundred or eventhousands of years back.

The term "ESP" was created by people who didn't know or understand such a philosophy or things in a similar direction, or both.

That's my opinion.

 

Telekenisis and ESP do play a part im sure as a real life equivilant of the way the jedi can control minds.

But, as for the force itself i think Lucas's prime inspiration must be the Tao.. mixed in with quite a bit of Buddhist teaching.

But from what i can see, Buddhism is mainly about finding enlightenment, and in star wars the jedi don't have that as there prime aim.

Rather, they seek to be in touch and part of the force, which is rather Taoist in thought.

Regards

 

In Theravada Buddhism, the ideal is the Arahant, who seeks enlightenment. But in Mahayana Buddhism, the ideal is the Bodhisattva, who refuses final enlighenment in favor of helping others. So Jedi ethics might be similar those of warrior Bodhisattvas, like the Shaolin monks. (And in China, Chan Buddhism was as much influenced by Taoism as it was by Indian Buddhism. Alan Watts explains this well in The Way of Zen.)

But onedifference between Buddhism and the Jedi is emotion, I think. Buddhists view desire as the primary source of suffering, but not all emotions are bad. In fact, Buddhists try to cultivate compassion and universal love (you can even see it in their brains). The Jedi, if I understand correctly, just try to subdue their emotions, which reminds me more of the ancient Greek and Roman Stoics.

 

The more I think about it, Lucas really does seem to have a Stoic attitude towards anger in particular. I know he was inspired by Roman history, but I wonder how much he was inspired by Classical philosophy. I'll bet he's read Epictetus and Seneca.

 

I thought the Jedi did not let emotions cloud the mind, but im sure they had them.

They had compassion for sure, and love of all life.


I think this is partly why Luke's New Jedi Order was meant to be more tolerant of emotions and love. That is why some got married etc.

The Shaolin Monks do remind me a bit of the Jedi

 

They had compassion for sure, and love of all life.

I misunderstood that point. Thanks. So they are a lot like Chan/Zen, a synthesis of Buddhism and Taoism.

I think this is partly why Luke's New Jedi Order was meant to be more tolerant of emotions and love. That is why some got married etc.

Tantric Jedi? I like the sound of that.

 

Possibley...

What constants do you see in Zen and the jedi?

 

Some things I see in common are the importance of compassion and selflessness, control of the mind through meditation, mastery of martial arts (not so important in modern Zen), spontaneity (in Qui-Gon if not the other Jedi), and seeking union with transcendant reality (Emptiness/Tao, the Force).

I think I will get Bortolin's book and see what he says. He knows more about Buddhism and Star Wars than I do.

 

ya... most those things tho are also seen in Taoist philosophy and understanding.

These things like you say are also found in Buddhism, Yoda for example in TPM is really making the point of Suffering being akin to the dark side. One thing that Buddhism focuses on is freeing one from suffering.

The Eightfold path also draws similarities, but also has many contradictions with the activities of the jedi.

One thing Buddhists are opposed to is lieing, is a Jedi mind trick lieing for example?

And dont forget the core of Buddhism, 'enlightenment' .. this does not appear in the Jedi way of thinking... rather they aim to be one with the force, in harmony with it, part of it's unity. This is definately a Taoist philosophy.

Regards

 

It is unfortunate that there are so many uneducated people here. Star Wars in fact, has very deep roots in Hindu religion, not Eastern religion.

There are many, many concepts derived from Hinduism in the series (George Lucas himself has strong Hindu beliefs), but sadly this pathetic article I think outlines them the best:

http://www.yodajeff.com/pages/hinduism/

I think everyone one tries to take credit for the inspiration for the Star Wars philosophy but most of it can be found in Hindu holy books.

Here is a much better written article which compares all faiths with the Star Wars series:

http://www.faithnet.org.uk/KS4/Religion%20in%20the%20Media/starwars.htm

"On his own admission George Lucas has clearly been influenced by Indian religion in his writing of the Star Wars saga."

 

It is unfortunate that there are so many uneducated people here.

Yeah, bummer for us!

Anyway, maybe the basis of Star Wars is just pulp 20th century sci-fi.

 

Om has many parallels with Tao.. and yes that article is quite weak and pathetic as a basis for discussion.

It just goes on about Dagobah and the relationship between Yoda and Luke. As Lucas was influenced by many cultures and beliefs, that could have come from any of them, including Hinduism.

If you think about it, running to the forest to seek the old and wise could refer to any shamanistic spiritual leader/master. Granted, that Hinduism's Janoi has got the scenes at Dagobah all over it.

The Jedi and the force are alot more than just the situation at Dagobah... when it comes down to this, the bigger picture.. i think that Tao, Zen/Chan Buddhism and the Shaolin Monks have the most in common with the Jedi and the force.


Some points:

- Yoda doesn't want Luke to goto Bespin because he is in a critical stage of training, where he is learning real control of the force... Yoda realises that if he leaves and confronts Vader, that he might be lead astray and to the Dark side.

- "Never give into anger and hate" ... most religions praise the virtues of goodness, compassion and love.. over evil, anger and hatred. Hinduism is not special in this.

- Destiny aka Duty? Destiny is something different to Duty, Destiny is what will happen because it has to, or is inevitabley destined too. Duty is what is meant to be done, either because it is expected or you have a moral obligation to do so.

- Cremation; To say cremation is predominantly Hindu is rubbish. Sure, Hinduism practices it, but so does Paganism, Buddhism, modern Christianity, the Hare Krishna, and Sikhism to name a few. The Greeks, Norse and Romans specifically in the pagan world used cremation widely.
In matter of fact, Hinduism do not cremate their holy men (Hijras), instead they are buried.

- Illusion .. the point on Dagobah with the X-Wing is that the force is in everything, it flows through everything... therefore size does not matter, because when in unity with the force all things are the same.
Life is not the illusion, life is the reality that one wakes up to.

It is true that many cultures and religions seem to have influenced Star Wars themes, but to say that Hinduism is above and beyond other eastern beliefs in this influence is a bit arrogant.

And, i am not uneducated.

Regards

 

More related articles:

A look at the Taoist concept of wu wei through the lens of the Star Wars series.

The Bhagavad-Gita may well have been Yoda's manual for teaching Luke Skywalker the way of the Jedi.

And here's an excerpt from an interview Lucas did with Bill Moyers about the movies' spiritual themes.