The Redemption of Mara Jade

Like anyone that is popular in our world, it seems as if Mara Jade has as many detractors as she does fans, (however, sometimes I think the detractors just make more noise.) One of the biggest issues that the Anti-Jade group seems to have with the character is that she has never really shown remorse for the crimes she committed while serving the Emperor. IMHO Mara's creator/champion Tim Zahn appears to think that no remorse is necessary as the Emperor only sent Mara against the Alliance once (the mission to kill Luke Skywalker on Tattooine)and she failed. Zahn appears to maintain that Palpatine only sent Mara on missions against criminal underlords and corrupt Imperial officials, and that she shouldn't need to feel remorse for dealing death to that type of people. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with her having this attitude if she wasn't the wife of Luke Skywalker.
Luke Skywalker is a Jedi Master and the very essense of compassion. Luke spared the life of Darth Vader, a man most of the Alliance believed deserved to die (although Vader was his father and that was his reason). Furthermore, he offered the cloned Emperor a chance to surrender and he was the man that killed Luke's father! As a Jedi, Luke is sworn to preserve life whenever possible. A Jedi regrets when he is forced to strike down an enemy, even if the enemy is a wicked one. It seems unlikely that Luke could ever be happy in a long term relationship with an unrepentenent killer like Mara.
This entire situation reminds me of a similar one in my other favorite fictional universe: Joss Whedon's Buffy/Angel universe. Buffy's friend, Xander Harris begins having an affair with a former vengeance demon, turned human against her will, named Anya. Anya was unrepentent about the death she had caused as a demon even though she hung around with Xander and his demon-slaying friends and often helped them. I had no problem with these two characters having a purely sexual relationship, but when Xander began to develop feelings for Anya, I had reservations. He had often been the moral compass for the show and I couldn't believe that he wanted to marry this unrepentent murderer (no matter how hot she was). However, finally in Season 7, there was an episode called "Selfless" in which Anya was finally forced to confront the horror of the things she had done and offered her life to make things right. She survived and made a conscious choice, not only to not do evil, but to do good.
Mara has never done this. I think if someone wrote a novel in which Mara was forced to see the consequences of a mission she carried out in the name of the Emperor. Maybe she could be confronted by the angry child of a corrupt Imperial whom she assassinated under Palpatine's orders. Maybe the Imperial WAS corrupt but the child is now an upstanding citizen of the New Republic. Mara would be forced to question what she had done in those years. Yes, she didn't understand that Palpatine was evil and she truly believed that he wanted what was best for the entire galaxy, not just himself. However, did she really have the right to be their judge, jury and executioner? How could she have ever thought Palpatine was a just ruler if he would casually order someone's death, rather than having them arrested and tried in a court of law?
These are the questions a Jedi (which Mara is now supposed to be) should be concerned with. Once Mara realizes what she did was wrong (even if her intentions were good), admits this to herself and others, and makes a conscious decision to atone by doing good from then on, can she be worthy of being the soul mate of the Star Wars Universe's moral compass, Luke Skywalker.
Does anyone else feel that a "Selfless" story for Mara Jade would redeem the character and make her worthy of Luke. They could even set it during the time of the YJK series to explain where she was and why she wasn't with Luke. Maybe they separated briefly because of her lack of remorse or maybe she was so racked with guilt and felt so unworthy of his love that she isolated herse

 

So, unless I'm misunderstanding something, then reading between the lines, you're looking for a retro-active continuity fix to be able to remove from the table the accusation that Mara Jade is a messed up character, wholly incompatible with Luke Skywalker by those who would dare to criticise her for being a messed up character wholly incompatible with Luke Skywalker.

That to me seems a bit disingenuous.

It was Zahn's Hand of Thrawn ret-cons which did the most to destroying the character and making her a messed up character wholly incompatible for Luke Skywalker, although she was already a long way there in her original source material, the Thrawn Trilogy.

I think they should just completely stay away from trying to fundamentally alter the nature and character of existing works. That's what primarily caused the problem to begin with.

 

Nevermind. I'm sorry but to much time has pasted for her to try and atone for what she has done. Why did it take so damn long for it to happen if a story was to be writen. This would have to be post-NJO and not something pre-NJO. Her actions in NJO would have to be accounted for as well.

Best way of having her look better in her eyes would be for her to prove herself the way other Jedi's have. Be willing to sacrifice her life for others out of the goodness of her heart and have her die making the ultimate action of atonement.

 

I'm no Zahn-worshipper, but for the record: Zahn was originally supposed to be the only author working in the part of the timeline after the TTT. I remember reading in a Sci-Fi Magazine in the Early '90's that he was slated to do 2 more trilogies after the current one was finished. However, I later heard that Zahn decided he didn't want to do both trilogies and one was given to KJ Anderson to write. The other became the HOT duology. Of course, while waiting for Zahn to have time in his schedule to write that one, LFL got greedy and allowed MANY other authors to write in that time period. While I'm not saying that I wish none of those books had been written (I like many of those Bantam-era books), the different authors jumping all over the timeline did complicate issues like continuity in characterization.

 

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That's definitely not a true accounting of events according to how Zahn himself has explained things. Evidently, you read an account of someone talking out their butt.

One easy check is EchoStation's interview about the orgins of the HoT duology:

"...A year or so after I finished the Thrawn Trilogy Bantam came to me and asked if I would like to do one more book to end the current Bantam novel line, making my stories sort of 'bookends' to this era of..."

The origins of Zahn's second project occurred well after authors like Tyers and Anderson already had their projects well underway.

 

I'm sorry but to much time has pasted for her to try and atone for what she has done.

So Darth Vader was never redeemed? Ah, I see. Silly me.

 

My issue is not with Mara "atoning" or "not atoning" for what she's done.

My issue is with "continuity spackle" trying to be applied to her backstory to say she was either a) not doing bad things, b) overly trained than had previously been mentioned, or c) some other ridiculousness like her NOT sleeping with Calrissian after posing [to us, the reader] as a couple for a timeline span of about two years-ish.

Zahn's ORIGINAL character was great.
KJA's/Hambly's having her take up with Lando was fine (and MADE SENSE at the time).

Everything else after that pretty much screwed the pooch.

And don't get me started on her lecturing on the Force...

 

My issue is not with Mara "atoning" or "not atoning" for what she's done.

My issue is with "continuity spackle" trying to be applied to her backstory to say she was either a) not doing bad things, b) overly trained than had previously been mentioned, or c) some other ridiculousness like her NOT sleeping with Calrissian after posing [to us, the reader] as a couple for a timeline span of about two years-ish.

Zahn's ORIGINAL character was great.
KJA's/Hambly's having her take up with Lando was fine (and MADE SENSE at the time).


YES! dp4m said all that I think. When I hear her time as a MURDERING ASSASSIN described as "Having spent her early years innocently supporting a dictator", I just want to burn things. If a murderer said "Oh, it's because my parents told me to be like this. I was an innocent supporter", think the judge would set him free?

Am I saying that she should be taken outside and shot? Not neccesarily, you can argue of influence. But when they make out she did nothing, I just feel let down by writers. Especially when the same writers keep bringing what Kyp did up. Were they not both tools for a force-powered person? And then to have Zahn have Mara criticise Kyp for being a loose cannon.....GAH!

And the Lando thing annoyed me too. What is wrong with Mara sleeping with Lando? It's not like he's some ugly annoying little creep (We call that guy ReaperFett ). He's a smooth talking charmer.


In one duology, Zahn tried to convince us that Mara was good, an expert in the force and wouldn't touch Lando with a bargepole. Does this not damage a SHARED universe? When one writer retcons an entire characer's past?












I'm sorry but to much time has pasted for her to try and atone for what she has done.

So Darth Vader was never redeemed? Ah, I see. Silly me.

Vader did slightly more. YOu know, dying to save his son, the Jedi and the universe? What's Mara done. Oh yeah, sacrificed her ship, which makes her a Jedi. WHich also saved her life. THat all it takes? "Hi I want to be a Jedi. I love this pen. *throws it away* Now, I am a Jedi! And here is how you've been doing everything wrong...".

 

If she would quit running at the mouth it would help. She yammers and jibber jabbers all day long. Favorite subject: Herself and how she knows everything, is unreproachable, but everyone else is an idiot.

Her bad mouthing Vader is the most annoying. Everything that fool has, she has because of Vader. Maybe she can't wrap her minimal brain space around that. She cannot in anyway hold a candle to the man. Let's see her build anything on her own. She has to keep having ships given to her. She can't design one. She still uses Anakin's 60 year old lightsaber, and it still works perfect. he probably made it in ten minutes or less. Anakin could outfly her at nine.
She isn't half as smart as she thinks.

As for her being so smart, let's get real. She was picked for her looks. She has some force ability, not a great deal. Shira Brie was smarter, much smarter, the top of her class in everything.
The Emperor likes red heads, and she was one of about 500, probably. There is no way to test these things. If she was taken so young, as an infant, then there is no evidence that she's some genius. How could anyone know that? All you can do is train someone. You can't make someone smarter than they are. That assertion is ridiculous.
(The Order took Anakin on because he was undeniably brilliant, talented, and strong.) Zahn keeps trying (and failing) to bring Mara, a a teen brat, up to Vader's level. Well, it's impossible. He's a Skywalker. He was above her in skill, and intelligence, in grade school, let alone after surviving all he did at the height of Imperial society, for decades. When Mara was still pooping her diapers, he was second in command of the galaxy. Sure, she was his replacenmet. In one of her better dreams. She would have killed her, Thrawn, And all the other losers in about, say, three minutes, IMO. Think Tusken villages.

Mara is a who knows what? Her parents could be a couple of bartenders for all we know.

And I will never buy that she is the deadliest person in the galaxy. Ha. A middle aged, 5'3" woman. Because she can do fan kicks? Big deal. Anyone worth their black belt can do a good fan kick. I think of some short woman against a seven foot vong, when pregnant and also dying, and that is just pure Mary Sue crap. Meanwhile Leia sighs helplessly. it's like some bad joke, the NJO writings.
I want her to stop being written in this Anime style superhero, where she can supposedly outdo Superman. But in other ways, she never does anything amazing either. It's just weird. (Same with Jaina, though she's portrayed as a pilot more often, than Jedi. But she is 4'8" apparently, and she was captured, tortured and beaten by the Vong. Everyone has been captured and beaten up, and tortured, even Jacen, who kicks Mara's butt in force ability, and Luke also. But Mara is portrayed as being too awesome to be caught. That is just stupid and makes me hate the character on top of everything else. She's such a total Mary Sue.)

Maybe it's all that ungray red hair hanging her eyes, or whatever. (Even though IMO, at her age, she should get a haircut. And some age appropriate clothes. She's near fifty. Think Diane Keaton, Susan Sarandon and the like. Sexy, yes, but stripper? NO.) She needs to age like anyone else.

Now that I think about it. I just want her to go away, die, or retire. I think I'd rather read about Tendra more. She at least has a personality.

 

Zahn keeps trying (and failing) to bring Mara, a kid, up to Vader's level.

He does that with all characters. Han sees Vader, he draws and starts shooting. Han sees "Thrawn"? He reels in horror!

 

So Darth Vader was never redeemed? Ah, I see. Silly me.

What I mean is that ever since the events of the Thrawn trilogy ended there has been time for her to have atoned for what she did. Crashing a ship isn't doing that since she gets a new one later. Vader died while killing the Emperor and saving his son. Her becoming a Jedi, her trails should have been her coming to terms what she did and was doing at the time. Her getting the title of Jedi Master should have come with facing her past. Not in a personal way but in a public way around the people around her truely showing how she has change. Her getting married to Luke would have been a great chance for her to face her past. Her giving birth to a child, bring a new life into the world would have been a good time for to face her past. Her dying of that disease would have been a good time for serious reflectiong.

This would not have mader her appear weak. It would have brought great depth to character to see if she truely regret doing what she did. See if she was angry about being used? She is she minded the life she lead. To see if she really feels she deserves the good life she has with Luke and Ben. To see why she treats people the way she does(badly mind you).

There have been plenty of times for this to have happen. A little late now don't you think. Especially after she has become a Jedi and is considered a master. THis is what I mean by to much time has past for her to do it now and for it to have any real meaning. She acts like it never happen most of the time. I mean by her actions and how she carries herself. Personal thoughts mean nothing when other characters don't know about it. This is why it needs to be done in front of people and they have to respond to it, either postivily or negativly. Both reactions have to be there.

He does that with all characters. Han sees Vader, he draws and starts shooting. Han sees "Thrawn"? He reels in horror!

That annoys the hell out of me when it happens. Thrawn being scarier then Vader on please. Now if we are talking about a fleet being lead by Thrawn then okay but face to face. Vader is a man who could have killed you with a simple move or just turn on the lightsaber and went to town on you. What could Thrawn do to Han?

See I don't have a problem with new characters causing people to be scared but please have it make sense. That's all I ask when it comes to anything plot wise and character interactions.

 

Herself and how she knows everything, is unreproachable, but everyone else is an idiot.

Again, no quotes to back it up. Or any other kind of proof, for that matter. Are you sure we're discussing the same character here?

Ah, well. Why am I even arguing this? You either love Mara or you hate her. You can't please everyone.

Somebody obviously licensed Zahn to end the Mara / Lando thing. Otherwise it would not have happened. The editors would have demanded that he fix it.

And if you don't think Mara has a personality, whatever you may think of it, you did not actually read these books.

Oh, yes, and her lecture on the Force...was entirely justified. Mary Sue or not, she was friggin' right. Luke Skywalker is human. I think very highly of him, but he has his flaws. And so does she. She admits that she's not up to Luke's level. She admits that she's not too good at building a personal life for herself. Talon Karrde's organization doesn't really count as a personal life.

At the time Mara criticized Kyp for being a loose cannon, she was a Jedi Master -- far from the assassin she had been 20 years earlier. You're deliberately misrepresenting her words.

And as far as Mara being the deadliest woman in the galaxy, she isn't. However, she's damn close, no lower than number three. That does not make her a better or worse person. She has her own problems to deal with, that her friends and family have helped her with, that are beyond the scope of any special skills she has. She's smart from years of helping Talon Karrde. You have to be smart in his business, or you don't live. She's a natural combatant, which explains her behavior toward enemies. As for her behavior toward friends...when Zahn, and to a lesser extent Stackpole and Luceno, writes Mara, it represents what she is.

Mara has done a great deal in her life, service-wise and character-wise. Not quite as much as Luke, but here goes a list:

-- Killed crime lords and terrorists when she was in the Emperor's service.

-- Helped kill Joruus C'baoth.

-- Turned to the New Republic and helped the fight against Thrawn in general.

-- Fought a rancor and won, much like Luke.

-- Defeated herself at a Dark Tree strong in the powers of the dark side.

-- Saved Kyle Katarn from the madness of the Sith Temple on Dromund Kaas.

-- Helped Corran Horn resist Exar Kun. Yeah, she said some stuff about how ruthless the Emperor was during that. She never said "Oh, he's such a good person." She said "He'd kick your ass and eat your balls for breakfast." Which is entirely true of both Vader and the Emperor. You honestly think that's praising the Emperor? It's mocking Exar Kun. If you had that kind of experience, you'd do the same thing. I guarantee it.

-- Helped Talon Karrde set his Smuggler's Alliance to work for the New Republic.

-- Found the Caamas Document with Luke and R2.

-- Helped Luke Skywalker learn about himself, as a sort of payment for all the times he helped her. It continues on and on...we know what happens.

-- Killed a lot of Yuuzhan Vong.

-- Helped lead the Jedi.

-- Opposed the guerrilla actions that Kyp was doing, which shows how she has changed. Regardless, I still vote for Kyp there.

-- Delivered a child. That in itself is an accomplishment. I'm kind of glad I'm not a woman just for that reason. Oh, yeah, and there's the part about bleeding every month...

-- Killed a lot of Yuuzhan Vong warriors.

-- Found the ruins of the Jedi Temple, again with Luke and some other people.

-- Withstood a terrible disease through pregnancy. She got pissy, but it's to be expected.

-- Withstood the temptation to go postal on Nom Anor in TUF. I wouldn't. I'd kick his white trash ass into next year.

-- Cried when Luke went down in Shimrra's pad. Yes, I call this an accomplishment. It takes a courageous person to admit they're feeling anything, let alone weeping. Seen some of the alpha-males roaming around this crapsack of a planet? They pretend they have no emotions. Yeah...riiiight. And you thought she didn't care a

 

Ah. Good to see Tiershon in her element once again. Even if you don't agree with her, you have to admit it's fun to watch her rant and rage.

And a I give a salute of "valient effort" to those who challenge her, as I would never have the [RLeeErmey]cahones[/RLeeErmey] to do so.

 

Mara's parents' names? Ben Kenobi and Siri Tasch...

What, you think old Ben was a morally-upright, emotionally neutered, essentially sexless Jedi Knight?

Sorry.

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy" - but he knows the best bars already. Just like on Coruscant, all those years earlier. And in spite of the danger to Luke, the misson, and everything else, he goes to get a drink. Again.

Ben was a lying, faking, cynical old bastard from the day he was born. I doubt he was ever happier than when he was leading a battalion of clone killers through the hell of a combat zone...

But anyway, let's get back to his daughter...



Mara Jade is, first and foremost, a human being... she's also someone who was used by Palpatine... probably in much the same way as C'baoth used Luke and Covell, in fact (and yeah, there's ammo for the people who think she's a clone)... she was probably about as psychologically incapable as a human being could be of seeing herself as anything less than an instrument of justice, and it's kinda understandable that her training would shape her attitude to certain things for a long time afterwards...

But that's not her fault, really, is it? And she's still a human being. Now what would be the point of punishing her, as of HttE? Because you want to hurt her for what she did? Feh. That makes you no better than Palpatine, and smug, sanctimonious, and morally deluded in ways that Palpatine probably wasn't.

Because she needs counselling to cope with it, then? Or because she's a danger to society? Nope, I don't think so, either.

Just live with it, people. Okay? Sure, Mara killed people in cold blood on behalf of a morally dubious regime she was blind to the faults of. Doesn't make her a bad person. Ben Kenobi did exactly the same thing. I could name a lot of other names, y'know...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

I don't know......I sort of hoped there would ahve been a short side story in the NJO where Mara went to Dagobah to "see herself". To meditate, to think......to really meditate on her past....and what she should do to make up for those things.


I don't like Mara for her LOOKS. I like her for being an interesting non Rebel. We had leia in the movies. A great role model. Then comes the EU and we get Mara, Tendra, etc. mara's no where near perfect, and actually I would have loved to see her redemption in the form of self sacrifice......committing to becoming a Jedi is part of it, but in no way makes UP for it.

Will we ever see her redeemed? *shrugs*

 

Thanks Rogue Ten.

My dream is to go toe 2 toe with Dubya, of the surprisingly low IQ. He would crumble into simpering mess in mere minutes under my direct fire. This is a guy with no sense of reality whatsoever, who doesn't read news, watch news, and relies on lapdogs for everything. Putty in the hands of me.

Obi-wan: I don't think he's capable of producing such a poor product as Mara from his fine loins.

Siri either. Siri would never give up anything to Palpatine. She'd kill the kid herself.

I think of Mara as the unfortunate result of a late night between bartender and a stripper.

The looks of a stripper, with all the class of one. looks painful...



Mara has done a great deal in her life, service-wise and character-wise. Not quite as much as Luke, but here goes a list:

-- Killed crime lords and terrorists when she was in the Emperor's service.

Well, we now how I feel about that "accomplishment".

-- Helped kill Joruus C'baoth.

True, but if anyone else would have written the story, she wouldn't have. She wasn't truly skilled enough, and make Luke a wimp that couldn't take on a yellow belt was outrageous.

-- Turned to the New Republic and helped the fight against Thrawn in general.

Well, better late than never.

-- Fought a rancor and won, much like Luke.

Great.

-- Defeated herself at a Dark Tree strong in the powers of the dark side.

Never heard of it.

-- Saved Kyle Katarn from the madness of the Sith Temple on Dromund Kaas.

This was a video game, no?

-- Helped Corran Horn resist Exar Kun. Yeah, she said some stuff about how ruthless the Emperor was during that. She never said "Oh, he's such a good person." She said "He'd kick your ass and eat your balls for breakfast." Which is entirely true of both Vader and the Emperor. You honestly think that's praising the Emperor? It's mocking Exar Kun. If you had that kind of experience, you'd do the same thing. I guarantee it.

Good for her. She should say that. Just don't say she was so innocent. Why is it so hard for her to say she did wrong?

-- Helped Talon Karrde set his Smuggler's Alliance to work for the New Republic.

And she profitted like crazy from it. Made billionaires out of all of them. A buncxh of former sleazes. Smugglings not exactly like being a priest or anything. Han gets hassled still for smuggling decades ago, but Talon and Mara are heroes? Why this double standard?

-- Found the Caamas Document with Luke and R2.

Good, but a she was doing her job.

-- Helped Luke Skywalker learn about himself, as a sort of payment for all the times he helped her. It continues on and on...we know what happens.

OK.

-- Killed a lot of Yuuzhan Vong.

So did everyone. They are encroachers that wanted to destroy every man woman and child. Everyone had to defend themselves. She really had no choice. No one wanted to.

-- Helped lead the Jedi.

When? Lead the Jedi? The notion is insane. What page was that on?

-- Opposed the guerrilla actions that Kyp was doing, which shows how she has changed. Regardless, I still vote for Kyp there.

And she wanted to pop a vein in his head. Like she could. Kyp is ten times steronger than Mara. And he was right.

-- Delivered a child. That in itself is an accomplishment. I'm kind of glad I'm not a woman just for that reason. Oh, yeah, and there's the part about bleeding every month...

As a girl I can definitely say: BIG DEAL. Esp. to that last part. It's not some prize you earn.

-- Killed a lot of Yuuzhan Vong warriors.

Self defense. You said that already.

-- Found the ruins of the Jedi Temple, again with Luke and some other people.

So she helped. That's a team thing.

-- Withstood a terrible disease through pregnancy. She got pissy, but it's to be expected.

True, and everyone came rushing over from all corners of the galaxy to hold her hand, f

 

Once again, well said Tiershon_Fett. Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

Just live with it, people. Okay? Sure, Mara killed people in cold blood on behalf of a morally dubious regime she was blind to the faults of. Doesn't make her a bad person. Ben Kenobi did exactly the same thing. I could name a lot of other names, y'know...

....Whhhhhat!

The *Republic* was a morally dubious regime. The *Empire* was a fascist dictatorship that committed rampant atrocities, and was lead by a collection of psychopaths, racists and Sith Lords.

Please don't compare Obi-Wan's 40 odd years of selfless service as a jedi to Mara's life as an assassin.

 

-- Helped kill Joruus C'baoth.

True, but if anyone else would have written the story, she wouldn't have. She wasn't truly skilled enough, and make Luke a wimp that couldn't take on a yellow belt was outrageous.

Well, if anyone else had written the book there may not have been a Mara Jade in the first place. I do not see how this point is valid T_F. You can not really claim that any other author would have written her different because she is a creation of Zahn. Authors tend to have the characters they create be integral to the story. Anderson with Kyp and destroying the Death Star prototype, Stackpole and Corran Horn, just to name a few. On the other hand, I am curious as to who you are calling a yellow belt. Are you calling C'baoth a yellow belt?

-- Turned to the New Republic and helped the fight against Thrawn in general.

Well, better late than never.

and continues to fight. Whether it be against a sith lord, Correllian raticals, or the remnant of the empire.

-- Defeated herself at a Dark Tree strong in the powers of the dark side.

Never heard of it.

-- Saved Kyle Katarn from the madness of the Sith Temple on Dromund Kaas.

This was a video game, no?

I believe both are from a video game, which is cannon for these discussions.

-- Helped Corran Horn resist Exar Kun. Yeah, she said some stuff about how ruthless the Emperor was during that. She never said "Oh, he's such a good person." She said "He'd kick your ass and eat your balls for breakfast." Which is entirely true of both Vader and the Emperor. You honestly think that's praising the Emperor? It's mocking Exar Kun. If you had that kind of experience, you'd do the same thing. I guarantee it.

Good for her. She should say that. Just don't say she was so innocent. Why is it so hard for her to say she did wrong?

She has said what she did is wrong in the hand of thrawn duology.

-- Found the Caamas Document with Luke and R2.

Good, but a she was doing her job.

She was paid for finding the Caamas document?

-- Killed a lot of Yuuzhan Vong.

So did everyone. They are encroachers that wanted to destroy every man woman and child. Everyone had to defend themselves. She really had no choice. No one wanted to.

And she fought at the forefront of the war. She fought to save thousands of refugees, she was at the frontlines when defending Coruscant, she infiltrated an occupied Coruscant, and she helped in defeating the Vong in the end.

-- Helped lead the Jedi.

When? Lead the Jedi? The notion is insane. What page was that on?

During one of your most hated moments she leads the jedi. When Anakin dies and Luke is too choked up to speak, Mara leads. Yes Leads. She lets the other jedi know what is needed to be done. That is leading. She also leads by example as she fights. Fighting with a disease which is trying to kill her. She fought even as she had life growing in her. Yes she has her poor moments, but they are not the only moments she has.

-- Opposed the guerrilla actions that Kyp was doing, which shows how she has changed. Regardless, I still vote for Kyp there.

And she wanted to pop a vein in his head. Like she could. Kyp is ten times steronger than Mara. And he was right.

Ah yes. That comment was made with such a serious tone to it.

-- Delivered a child. That in itself is an accomplishment. I'm kind of glad I'm not a woman just for that reason. Oh, yeah, and there's the part about bleeding every month...

As a girl I can definitely say: BIG DEAL. Esp. to that last part. It's not some prize you earn.

How about when she sacrificed her own body and let the disease ravage it while protecting her unborn child?

-- Found the ruins of the Jedi Temple, again with Luke and some other people.

So she helped. That's a team thing.

So she knows how to work in a team. Usually selfish people do not work in a team. They work for themselves.

-- Withstood a terrible disease through pregnancy. She got pissy, but it's to be expecte

 

Oh and I gotta say T_F I dont know if you intended it, but I find it in poor taste that you post a picture of a real life person and just because their likeness is used for a character you feel the need to post this The looks of a stripper, with all the class of one. looks painful...

Hey, she made a couple of really extreme generalisations about the intelligence and reading habits of someone she never met. Let's try to keep it civil, guys.

 

I think Mara jade doesn't feel bad about what she did cause it was a good thing in her eyes.

I like her as a character, no one is perfect anyway.

But yeah I think her dead can do good to the books

 

Herself and how she knows everything, is unreproachable, but everyone else is an idiot.

Again, no quotes to back it up. Or any other kind of proof, for that matter. Are you sure we're discussing the same character here?

You mean like how she KNOWS Luke was wrong in HOT, a fact you yourself admit in a minute? And in Ruin she hissed idiots (IIRC that was the word) reguarding Wurth, Kyp and Anakin. Plus in the Force Heretic
trilogy she calls people similar.

Remnant, page 123, "Which idiot sent you?". That's to a group of people they are trying to get help from as well.

So, are YOU discussing the same character?




Oh, yes, and her lecture on the Force...was entirely justified. Mary Sue or not, she was friggin' right.

And how would she know this? Does being an assassin or a smuggler give you insight in the force? It's about as logical as Wes Janson telling Luke.




At the time Mara criticized Kyp for being a loose cannon, she was a Jedi Master

No, she wasn't even a KNIGHT. She was a Knight be the end of HOT, a Master before the NJO, she called him a loose cannon during HOT. The fact that she keeps snapping constantly and going off without listening to others advice actually makes her just as much as a loose cannon, and is arguable that she still was by the time of the NJO.

 

-- Withstood the temptation to go postal on Nom Anor in TUF. I wouldn't. I'd kick his white trash ass into next year.

She should have killed him. He is the one who led the invasion. Why let the most dangerous of all the enemy go? That was a huge mistake and he will be back.

I'll be honest, this is the complaint I dislike the most, Tiershon. I feel sure that, should Mara have killed Nom Anor, you'd be grumbling about how she'd not acted like a Jedi. You're also forgetting how much help Nom Anor was to the Jedi in the short-term, and how much information he provided them with in the retaking of Coruscant...

 

I agree that Mara did the right thing by not killing Nom Anor. One of the major principles of the Star Wars Universe as conceived by Lucas is that evil is ultimately self-destructive. The Emperor's evil was literally consuming him. The Sith Order nearly destroyed itself before Bane reformed it. Then, it essentially DID destroy itself when Vader and Palpatine turned on each other. This tradition has continued in the EU such as when Thrawn was murdered by his own bodyguard whose people he had been deceiving for years; when the cloned Emperor was destroyed by his own force storm; and even when Hethrir was consumed by Waru when he failed to deliver Anakin Solo as a meal. Nom Anor gave the heroes important aid when Mara spared his life and then as evildoers in the Star Wars universe have done again and again, he gave into his true nature and tried to betray them again, only to be thwarted and choose death over being a prison. It isn't right for a Jedi to strike down a surrendering enemy, even if his surrender is insincere and it's certain he'll try to betray you again at the first opportunity.
To the people that think Mara should've killed Nom Anor: By your logic Quin Vos should've killed Villie a long time ago.

 

Is it Jedi like to when hitting him be thinkign "THis is for____"? That is VENGEANCE, not a Jedi trait. At one stage she even does it for whatever part he played in the deaths of Anakin and Chewbacca. To focus on those two? PERSONAL vengeance.

Revenge, the trait of a great Jedi


And before anyone says it, Kyp said it in a speech that got people cheering. Mara thinks it to herself