ST The Rise of Skywalker Rey v Palpatine really should’ve ended differently

Why I say this is that when Rey was speaking with the Past Jedis, they were only voices. Why aren’t they Force Ghosts like Anakin, Luke, Obi-Wan (young or old, I don’t really mind), Mace, Yoda, etc, HELPING Rey? I mean the Jedi that I listed tried to actually defeat Palpatine in the Sequels (I mean Obi-Wan didn’t kill Palpatine), or at least hated Palpatine. What do you guys think?

 

That's not how The Force works!!!

Honestly, I used to think it would have been more cool to have The Force ghosts show up, but I have changed my thoughts on that. Dig it:

1. Seriously, is this how Force works? Force Ghost canon is always a bit murky, but I think that there is precedence for this NOT happening.

Recall, in ESB, Kenobi tell's Luke..."If you choose to face Vader you will do it alone. I cannot interfere." I took this to me that Obi-Wan wasn't refusing to help as much as he was unable. So, I am unsure if ghosts can help in the way you want (assist in combat)...so far, I don't think we've seen this kind of thing in SW. I could be wrong, but it seem to open a whole bunch of canonical questions about why this thing didn't happen at various points in the saga.

2. Less is more. In a movie that gets knocked for being "too much, too fast" TROS didn't need more crammed into it's finale. I know that (originally) in ROTJ Yoda and Obi-Wan's Force ghosts were supposed to show up and assist Luke, but Lucas decided it wasn't as dramatically interesting. I think the same applies here. Ben Solo gets thrown into a pit so Rey can have more danger, and the onus is squarely on her, the stakes are raised. Once Yoda and company show up, Palpatine is immediately outgunned and the stakes are lessened.

3. My biggest reason: I think we are picturing some big "Avengers Assemble" type moment, but seeing "all the Jedi" may have been a bit over the top and very hokey. Often our imagination in better than what the visual would be. I am picturing Pirates of the Caribbean and Lord of The Rings Ghost combat and I didn't want to see this kind of thing. Do you? Again, sometimes less is more.

Bottom Line: I thought the voices only were really on point, much more cosmic, and left just enough up to our (the viewers) imagination. The Force is often elegant, and serene, not loud and in your face. I thought the moment conveyed the spiritual strength of The Force without turning into a video game cutscene. These ghosts weren't for Palpatine to see and hear, they were for Rey.

For me, it was a moment of the perfect touch and tone in a movie that desperately needed it.

 

It should've ended with "I'm Rey Palpatine" and then she shoots Force lightning at that old lady.

 

okay now that is actually funny. That would make a good Robot Chicken Star Wars episode lol

 

I know, I know, I’m still getting use to Star Wars again as I haven’t watched it in a LONG LONG time. I’m still curious about the Star Wars Trilogy and/or Franchise (I don’t know how to put it). I respect what you have said, but I just want you to know that this is what I think, I’m still curious about the Force, about Star Wars, about everything. Also I seriously think that they really should’ve had put in Obi-Wan and Yoda’s Force Ghosts like they had originally planned. I mean they’re who we grew up with. We grew up with Alec Guinness and Frank Oz in the Original Trilogy (if we watched it when it first came out) and/or Ewan McGregor, Jake Lloyd (I), and Hayden Christensen (II, & III) in the Prequel Trilogy.

 

There are some fan edits which visualize this sort've thing pretty well.

Personally, I would've also preferred to see Anakin, Luke, Leia, Yoda, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Mace, Ahsoka, and a bunch of Jedi show up to reinforce Rey and stare down the Emperor.

Would've also further emphasized that whereas the Sith stand alone in their constant treachery and selfishness, the Jedi are a collective from whom Rey can now draw literal strength.

Plus, it would've been cool to see all the Jedi whom Sidious screwed over for decades come back and give him a spiritual wedgie.

 

Rey versus Palaptine is probably the least engaging, creatively moribund sequence in all of Star Wars.
Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure literally has a better and more rewarding denouement.

 

Hey guys, don’t you think that LEGO Star Wars: The Force Awakens should have a similar open world to The Skywalker Saga? I mean in The Force Awakens, all you can do is just reply Chapters of TFA game, switch characters, and go onto planets. But in The Skywalker Saga, you have a massive open world. You can actually fly in space, visit the Death Star, you can do almost everything. Also think about this, all the voices you hear in TRoS become Force Ghosts, appear on the left and right side of Rey, and they go inside Rey, giving her a big amount of strength and defeating Palpatine. Wdyt?

 

I understand the appeal in seeing all the Jedi appearing alongside Rey, it would certainly look cool. But I do think it would have been a bit much, and, as Jamiestarr pointed out, it would have contradicted the rules set forth in previous films. People already complain a lot about the ST playing fast and loose with the rules of the force, so I can only imagine how much backlash it would get if suddenly force ghosts could fight in battles.

And remember how many people said, "Why didn't they ever use the Holdo maneuver before?", well, imagine how many people would be asking, "Why didn't the force ghosts ever do anything before? Why didn't they help Luke? Heck, why did they need Luke at all? Why didn't an army of force ghosts just destroy Palpatine right after Order 66? Were they just sitting around thinking, 'Eh, if someone asks for our help, we'll show up, but until then, we're enjoying our retirement'?"

Although, this does bring up the problem between ANH and ESB, with Obi-Wan claiming that striking him down will make him more powerful than Vader could possibly imagine, and then in the next movie basically saying, "Yeah, sorry Luke, I can't do anything."

 

I'm not a fan of all the Jedi spirits pep-talking Rey in the final moments of the fight. It's not really set up for Rey's story. I would have been fine with just Luke doing so, because he has a connection to Rey. but it's certainly not set up by the history and lore, and would have contradicted the events. Of course, TLJ begins to ruin that but whatever.

Obi-wan's meaning is that he can now be with Luke in spirit. He can guide him. He can be with him even in death. Which is what we see when Luke is trying to destroy the DS. OW gets Luke to focus on his spirit/heart/force and not the technology. That's the 'more power' than a Sith can possibly imagine. Because to them, it's all about the physical power.

 

Its true that she doesn't know them so there is little reason why they would show up. But at the same time, I don't think its meant to matter who Rey knew or not. I think the idea is that she is all the jedi that ever came before. The voices heard were not chosen for any reason beyond that they were once jedi. Presumbaly the idea is that there were many more voices she heard

Its balance of the force. Palpatine was all the sith, So the jedi became one with Rey.

But I don't think you are meant to believe they are doing anything except supporting her. Which if they showed up, that's where the focus would be. On them being there.

 

Nah, thanks.

I know what the movie is trying to say, rather poorly and stupidly. I'm saying it doesn't work with in the lore, and doesn't really makes sense for Rey's story. Rey's "I'm all the Jedi", and Palpatine's "I'm all the SIth" is a last minute flake of a JJ idea that doesn't work.

 

Id argue supernatural elements like that do make sense in the lore. Filoni doesn't mind getting mystical with the universe. Meaning Lucas didn't mind. Meaning you can probably find stuff like that all over. And not just with mortis or smoke ghosts dark siders

 

I'm not referring to any of that.

 

How I would have ended it differently: Somehow, Rey finds it in her heart to take pity on Grampa Sheev. Instead of fighting him, she uses her newly discovered healing skills to purge his body of all the Sith alchemy and sorcery that was keeping him alive. And that turns him back into a normal human being, one who has long outlived his natural lifespan, and he quietly dies a natural death of old age with no Darkside loopholes to keep him undead anymore.

 

Hey now at least that would have sorta been set up. And kind of ... creative.

There's no parallel universe where JJ made EP 9 and that outcome would have happened though.

 

At least he’s consistent.

Flakiness and superficiality is his brand. Just listen to him talk. He says absolutely nothing interesting. Ever.

Lucasfilm, hire this man.

 

To put pity on him would suggest he can't die and that's his curse and that she healed him of this. But since Palpatine wants to outlive everyone, its not really pity. Thats taking what he wants away from him. Which any way of killing him would do that anyway

In terms of how Palpatine had to be defeated. You really had to go big. He is Star Wars Thanos at this point.

 

No, you really didn’t.

Defeating this huge threat him with a small act of pity/ mercy would have been a perfect way to end the saga.

 

The ending of TROS is really poor… and that’s saying something given the bilge that went before it (both in TROS and the other two ST films). The finale is about as unimaginative, un-engaging and as lacklustre as could be possible (a staple of JJ Abrams films). It reminds me of a bad 70’s Hammer horror film, where endings were routinely just pulled out of the air with an act of badly thought out deus ex machina.

I personally would have preferred them to explore what Filoni is doing with Ahsoka, and Anakin’s role in that… where the netherworld is trying to assert its influence on the physical. Related to this, and another thing that bothered me, which feeds into why Rey is such a flat, boring and poorly written character, is that there’s literally no effort required on her part to first see force ghost Luke, and subsequently whatever happens with the ‘all Jedi’ crap. It’s not developed, it’s massively underwritten and it doesn’t make sense. Both Luke, Obi-Wan struggled to see the force ghosts at first (Ahsoka too) it was something that too effort. Yet with Rey it’s just yet another feat she can pull out of her arse when she needs it. This is what happens when Star Wars is written specifically to appeal to those with very low standards.

 

There's nothing bigger than Luke throwing down his saber and refusing to play Palpy's game, and then his evil father finally realizing he has the ability to do the right thing, save his son's life, sacrifice himself in the process, and chuck his boss into a reactor.

Nothing.

An army of CG Jedi Ghosts fighting along side Captain Rey, with her crossed sabers, fighting her Zombie Grandpa could even come close.

 

But how is it mercy? That also sounds more like creating an idea out of nothing. There is no mercy. Palpatines survived because he wants to survive. Whats the mercy here? if death is mercy then what would be the opposite to mercy?

Well to be fair, the whole force ghost thing as varied in canon. The Obi Wan show makes a point to say Obi Wan wasn't ready emotionally to see Qui-Gon. While Luke there isn't really any explanation in that area. Obi Wan shows up to Luke on hoth as a ghost and I doubt Luke had been training for that. And Ahsoka... What I take from ahsoka is force ghosts just for the most part stay away. Not because she didn't know how to see Anakin.

With Rey you do get the sense she has trained in some way here.

When its Palpatine I think you do need to go big. I don't think you can do what you did with Vader with Palpatine.

Palpatine in canon has perhaps become BIGGER than Vader now when it comes to his influence and the things he will do. Palpatine is basically the devil.

 

It's not about Vader and Palpatine. You seem to misunderstand. The heart of the story, is between hero and villain. That's is what really matters. That's actually bigger than the flashy space battles and lightsaber duels. Thats' why throwing down his saber was greater than any fight. In the ST, Palpatine was not set up for Rey's story. Which is why her duel with him rings hollow. Which is why you want some 'big' flashy spectacle that ultimately is meaningless as it tries to fill in for more meaningless.

 

I don't think there is anything you could do with Palpatine like that. Palpatine is not that character. you won't get a Palpatine thanking his granddaughter for releasing him into death. Palpatine is the devil. the point with Rey is that she is the granddaughter of the devil. And there isn't a lot outside of her becoming a shell for more of his evil, whether its taking his place or whatever she was always an object to be taken over by Palpatine.

When Palpatine calls her his granddaughter that's not some sorta recognition for him about family. To him Rey is an object of survival.

And then of course the ramifications of what drives Palpatine is his religion. Which means he survives, the sith survive and all his influence on the galaxy survives. This is not a vader situation.

So at this point when you look back at Palpatines history with the franchise... yeah you go big here. I don't think you mess around. And in a sense the idea was clearly to mirror the Windu and Palpatine stand off with the lightning where Windu could have put an end to it all if it wasn't for Anakin, but this time Palpatine does die.

 

Bolded is probably true, but it doesn't matter. Mercy for Palpatine isn't about Palpatine, it's about Rey being a good person and showing mercy even to those who don't deserve it. (If mercy is deserved, it's not really mercy, it's justice.) He likely won't appreciate the gift of death, but it's the best thing for him, and Rey could have done what was best for him, like it or not. Some people need to be handled with tough love.