The Separatists vs. The Republic

"It is clear to me now that the Republic no longer functions." - Queen Amidala, Episode I

We know the Republic was corrupt, even before Palpatine came to power. In my opinion, Dooku had good intentions on cleansing the Republic, I think Dooku deserves a lot more respect than people give him. Dooku wanted to destroy the Sith, I think his intentions to cleanse the Republic were sincere. He even asked Obi-Wan to join him so they could destroy the Sith. That was all Dooku wanted, and if it meant teaming up with the Sith to do so, then he was willing to make that sacrifice. I think once the Republic fell, he would have at least made an attempt to destroy Sidious and vanquish the Sith, but that's not the topic here.

What I'm getting at is I think the Republic needed to go, needed to be destroyed, and start all over again. I think towards the end of Episode III Senators will start to see that, but it will be too late. Anakin knew it in AOTC, and I think many more will come to this realization in Revenge of the Sith.

The Separatists under Dooku wanted a fresh start, a government that wasn't corrupt and dysfunctional. Is that so bad? Remember now, it is the Republic that strikes first against the Separatists, with really little to no reasoning. The Republic had no army, how do you govern such a huge amount of space and a vast amount of people with no army? It wasn't functioning, it was too big.

So, post your thoughts. Did the Republic need to go? Did this need to happen? Were the Separatists intentions really so bad? What side would you choose?

 

In my mind, the Separatists and the Republic were both so varied that it's hard to categorize them. I, for one, think the Separatists got the bad rap in the movies. I mean, the Republic's the Empire... technically, the Separatists were fighting the Empire.

The Separatists had quite a few members (and one or two leaders, included) who had genuinely good ideas. They, not the likes of Mon Mothma, are the precursors of the Rebel Alliance in my mind. Unfortunately, some of the leaders weren't all that great, and so they were villified right up until the point where the Empire came in.

The Separatists were also reviled because of their association with the Sith, of course (even though I suspect the majority of them didn't understand what a Sith was). Which brings Dooku into this mess: Was he a Sith, or a Separatist? The EU seems to think the former, explaining how he planned to murder all of the other leaders and create a dictatorship (i.e, Empire) afterwards. Based on the movies alone, however, he appears to be more of a free-thinker, someone who considered the Separatists' cause a noble purpose.

Dooku aside, the Separatists were, for the most part, ultra-librals who weren't afraid to question the overbearing bulk of the Republic. Too bad they were being led by several mega-corporations, acting as mini-dictatorships in themselves.

 

The Republic had no army, how do you govern such a huge amount of space and a vast amount of people with no army? It wasn't functioning, it was too big.



The Republic Senate was more like a United Nations of Star Systems. Each of the individual planets had their own police force.



As for getting rid of the Senate/Republic, remember they were elected. To change/re-do it, the people of the GFFA should elect honest representatives. If they dont, they get the government they deserve. Dookus idea of getting rid of it by himself, no matter how good his intentions were, is just plain dictatorial. Just like the Jedi plan to take control of the Senate after the arrest of Palps. No matter how bad it may be, Palps and the Senators were legally elected to their positions. By attempting to kill Palps and take over the Senate, their good intentions backfired. They elevated him to the rank of Emporer, and caused the Jedi purge and general crack down. Thank you Mace Windu.

 

Yoda trying to assassinate the Emperor probably didn't help the Jedi cause, either!

 

B_C, I thought that Sidious was not a really believed figure until shortly before ROTS, at least according to LOE. And in LOE the only way the Jedi knew of Sidious was his controlling for the Republic as Dooku claimed to serve no Master.

The identity of the Sith Master was not something the Jedi were prepared to entertain until ROTS, then they had PROOF that a Sith Lord was controlling the Senate AND was communicating with Dooku. Then Mace and Shaak Ti put two and two toegether and try to find ol' Sid,but the Sith Lord pulled the strings and...well..yeah...

The Seppies did try to show in quite a few instances that they were better than the Republic, I can remember when Dooku when to Ishi Tib and had Saruman/Hitler moment with the natives. But Dooku was trying to SAVE the galaxy by CONTROLLING it, something that reminds me of another Jedi who does more or less the same thing 35 years later.

 

I do believe Dooku's plans were more noble and selfless than those of Palpatine.

Whereas Palpatine wanted to use the Republic to empower the Sith, Dooku was using the Sith to save the Republic. However, he was betrayed. What sort of ruler may he have been? We'll never know, but I'd have liked to have glimpsed him as Emperor or Chancellor in place of Palpatine.

 

The Separatist Council was made up of the corporations who had control over the Senate and thus bought their way into power. Dooku did want to remove the corruption, but he fell to the dark side and thus lost to the ideals of the Sith. A theme of Star Wars is that good people can go bad and not realize it.

"One of the issues in all of this is the bad guys think they?re good and Lord Sidious thinks he?s bringing peace to the galaxy because there is so much corruption and confusion and chaos going on and now he?s going to be able to straighten everything out which maybe true but the price the galaxy is going to have to pay for it is way too much."

--George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.

"As evil begins to take over, it pushes the Force out of balance. It's easier to succumb to evil than it is to be a hero and try to work things through on the good side. Evil is inherently more powerful?it doesn't have the burden of worrying about other people. What Luke sees in Darth Vader at the end of ROTJ is something that I thought was worth understanding: the idea that Darth actually was a very good person. Except he's slightly more powerful than other people and when you get into that situation, your ability to do evil is much easier to come by."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

Or more aptly put...

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

I don't believe Dooku ever truely embraced the Dark Side or the ideals of the Sith to the degree that Palpatine did. I still believe Dooku would have overthrown Palpatine if he'd had the chance, and that he was using his status as a Sith Lord to bide his time. Some inner character dialogue from some of the novels seems to support that, and that's the type of man he seems to be from the movies. He just geniunely has the aura of a tired old man who wants peace and stability in his Republic.

 

I know that most people aren't going to read a long paragraph but from what the novelization gives us, Count Dooku is intent on destroying the Republic and replacing it with a government he would be proud to stand under. However, he intends on replacing the Jedi Knights with a Sith Army, an inherently evil force. Count Dooku may have had good intentions to begin with but as time passed with Darth Sidious, his visions were twisted to mirror those of the Dark Lord, with just a little bit of imagination from Dooku. So its like darth-sinister stated, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

But that's just my two cents.

 

I kind of have sympathy for the Seperatists in Epi III. I wish the movies had more time to flesh out their role in the galactic drama.

 

as ki adi mundi said that count douko was a politcal idelaist not a murderer (or something like that) so its possible that douko was trying to clean up the republic by wipeing it out

 

Which of course is strongly backed up by Dooku being complicit in attempting to murder Padme.

As for the whole point of this thread, I do tend to think that the Seps weren't *quite* as bad as alot of people think. Then again, the Seps seemed to think base-delta-zeroing planets full of civiliand was perfectly okay, which is something the Republic did not do, as well as practically being the prototype for the Empire (Sidious #1, his pupil # 2, a bunch of toadies/ruthless types running the show at the highest level.)

 

Wait a sec... the Republic's the Empire. All those Imps at the end of ROTS were building a WMD in order to nuke the remaining Separatists.

 

Which was being built by the seps to do the same thing to the Republic.

The Republic does become the Empire, but the CIS was the prototype of the Empire.

 

The Confederacy was only interested in keeping it's financial monopolies and their control over the Senate. Their rehtoric was that the Republic Senate was corrupt, but what they don't acknowledge is that they are the corruption. All they were interested was keeping things exactly as they were. To be handsomely rewarded. What they didn't realize is that they were pawns in the grand scheme of things.

The Death Star was just one of the things Palpatine wanted to control the galaxy with. To enforce his rule with extreme prejudice.

 

If you ask me they're both corrupt. However, that's largely due to the fact that both were being lead by the Sith. The Republic without a Sith Lord in their leadership position however I would say is less corrupt than the Sepratists given just how many corporations are on the Sepratist Council.

 

I think that the ideas behind the Separatist movement were well intentioned, but the key players within the CIS had the wrong desires (power and money) which is why they are viewed as villians (primarily though because we are rooting for the good guys within the Republic). But when the good guys become the bad guys and we now have the Rebel Alliance, we see them as good not just for opposing the enemies, but because all the members fight for the same idea that drives the collective organization, which is freedom from the oppression of such villains, an to maintain the original ideas the Republic had before its corruption.

 

The Separatists were corrupted long before the Sith got a hold of them. This didn't just happen overnight. This was going on for a hundred or more years.

 

Yep..but the Hyperspace comics quite clearly show that the Seps were pinning all their hopes of winning the war-or, at least, forcing a peace favorable to them-on the Death Star. I don't doubt that if Palpatine had needed the war to last longer, or if say, Sidious had been killed with Dooku & Grievous surviving to lead the Confederacy against the Republic, that the Death Star would have been used against Republic planets.

 

Well if the Rebel Alliance was able to get the Death Star plans, then the Republic should be all the more capable of doing so. If Luke was able to destroy it using the Force, then Anakin, Obi-Wan or anyone else could all the more easily have performed that trench run and done the same.

 

Yes, but it doesn't mean the seps weren't willing to use it.

 

Umm, well the Empire seemed equally willing to use it, so what's the difference?

 

I'm saying there is no diff between the Seps and the Empire.