Saga The Sith Philosophy Compared to the Objectivism of Ayn Rand

Ayn Rand was an author who proposed her own philosophy called "objectivism," which said that selfishness was moral. She felt that altruism was immoral and actually held society back, and that if everybody embraced being selfish (albeit without hurting anyone else in the process), society would progress.

There are pretty obvious connections between this and the Sith philosophy of Star Wars. All about power, ego, bettering yourself, being selfish, etc. However, a Sith wouldn't care about hurting anyone in the process of gaining power and prestige.

 

I rather don't see the ties to Sith as 'facts' simply how most fans choose to see them.

 

The Sith seem to see themselves as followers of Rand's philosophy, but ignore a major component of it. Rand said that everyone has the right to be selfish and to respect the right of others to be just as selfish as you are. The Sith are obsessed with their own right to be selfish but don't give others the right to be equally selfish.

 

Everyone being selfish helps society? That's literally the dumbest philosophy I have ever heard of. Okay maybe it's second after the people who think they can survive on air alone.

 

Being Selfish without hurting anyone else? Does Rand know the meaning of the word selfish?

 

She redefines it to be "all self-interested behaviour".

Her definition of Altruism is also an extremely old one:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/Objectivism

 

That form of Altruism does not exist. It's a straw man used by Rand.

 

some of what she espoused makes sense but lacks heart. i don't think what she said was completely wrong it just needs to be modified. (it's been a while since i heard about it though.)

the problem with it is it works for one kind of person. everyone else is left out. not everyone is capable of being a scientist or industrialist. it's that same old problem of thinking everyone is the same as you and has the same capabilities, they just don't apply themselves. everyone is different and there are many people who need help. not being super intelligent and rich doesn't mean you're a bad person or an idiot.

otherwise you get a "metropolis" type society which is fine if you are among the elite not so much the other way.

 

Ayn Rand's particular brand of Objectivism WOULD work if everyone (literally every single person) behaved in a certain way all the time. But as soon as there are people who act differently or have different beliefs (for example... in every single society in history that's not a brainwashed cult) it would fall apart... and you would probably in fact end up with real life Sith, minus the force powers.

 

putting yourself first and having your own self interest at heart is not necessarily a bad thing by itself. it's excluding others completely that is the problem. people need to do both.

 

Interesting concept. I guess it depends on what constitutes 'not hurting anyone else'. Do omissions come under that heading? If I see someone dying on the side of the road and I wander on by because helping them is going to disadvantage me in terms of my own productivity for the day, am I hurting that person?

 

Yeah, I think the Sith's 'use or destroy' approach is probably taking it one step further than Rand envisaged.

 

if it was a war zone and there was a person laying there ayn rand would say "save yourself".

 

Not really. More - "help now, expect this help to be considered an honor debt to be repaid in future." Or even just "help them because it avoids the emotional pain of knowing that a sapient creature has unrelieved suffering".

There's more than one self-centred reason to help others, if you have "respect for life" and "respect for dignity" (traditional Good traits).

Randian morality allows for "acts of goodwill" - it just doesn't make helping others compulsory.

 

If a force wielder in Star Wars lived by Ayn Rand's Objectivism, he (or she) would be between Jedi and Sith.

Jedi: Sacrificing for others, putting the sake of others before oneself (Altruism)

Objectivism: Prioritizing your own goals without harming others, protecting your interests and close ones instead of sacrificing for others

Sith: Do anything to advance your own interests, conquer and harm as many as you desire (Nihilism, from a certain point of view)

 

Who is Rand is why is their ridiculous philosophy worth discussing?

 

the internet. use it.

 

Oh, dear. Another Ayn Rand discussion courtesy of the internet. I don't think I can handle all the caricatures. It's been said already, but Rand's definitions of "selfishness" and "altruism" are fundamentally distinct from the common, sentimental interpretation of the words. She had no real opposition to charity, helping others or overall human compassion, nor did she view society as greater and lesser, worthy and unworthy, based on income levels or the scale/prestige of one's skill sets. What she rallied against was involuntarism—the threat of violence and the initiation of force, and certainly on the treatment of people as sacrificial lambs, which pretty much excludes her views right off the bat from anything resembling Sith reasoning and conduct.

 

There was a "if you want to make self-sacrificing acts, nobody is stopping you" perspective at least, as well as a "Out of respect for life, one should help others, in emergencies, in non-sacrificial ways" piece of advice - but otherwise, there was a strong "no obligations" theme.

That said, the "never violate other people's rights" themes were strong enough that an Objectivist force-user would be far safer than a Sith to be around.

From their perspective, if the choice was between doing nothing (and so dying) and committing murder of a presumably innocent person (and so living) - they'd rather die than murder.

Yup. She'd hate the Jedi ethos of self-sacrifice almost as much as the Sith "Looter ethos" especially when being instilled in Jedi infant recruits - but there'd be no reason to fight the Jedi the way there would the Sith.

 

I don't know how to use the interweb.

 

Had she mastered the whole "forestall death" bit, I could easily see the loathsome little troll arriving at the Republican National Convention via Imperial Shuttle, robed and wrinkled.

All would bow before Darth Rand.

 

As Ingram_I put it:

 

Certain similarities between Rand's Objectivism and Kreia's philosophy (or at least the views she presented to the Exile), one notes. In fact, I would rather think Rand and Kreia would get along famously if they shared a universe, and would certainly be united in opposing the Sith.