The Sith, Satanism, and the Occult Thread

I picked up "Secret Societies: A History" by Arkon Daraul at Barnes and Noble the other day. Here's an interesting paragraph about witchcraft and black magic which made me immediately think about the Sith.

"There were two main objectives in the rituals of these secret cults. The first was the liberation of the individual from the bonds of ordinary morality and especially of self-restraint. The second was the belief that, acting together, the congregation could achieve, by the use of their united wills, the destruction of their enemies or the progress of their plans. The important place taken by the priests, or devils, and the confused nature of the reports of the drugged devotees, show that in all probability it was the master magician (or devil) who alone held the secret knowledge of how their united emotion was to be discharged as part of a magical rite. They had to obey him, and he was the person who produced the ritual ecstasy which was necessary for him to project their mutual 'psychic' power."

Thoughts? Criticisms? Preguntas? Comentarios?

 

Yes, lots of thoughts. I'm very grateful you've started this thread because I?ve stumbled on this connection myself a few weeks ago, when I realized how unlike Sidious was to what we commonly know about psychological structures of power addicted individuals and concluded that there must be something else behind this. Since then, I?ve been trying to communicate here, which not much success, that the Sith aren?t simply psychological damaged individuals with no spiritual interests but that there?s a philosophy behind this.

I posted something down the board in the Taoism thread, on which I will draw here. I started by looking at the basic structures of the Jedi and the Sith way of approaching the Force in SW, and by looking at the Jedi and the Sith code, which state:


Jedi code:
?There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no passion; there is serenity.
There is no chaos; there is harmony.
There is no death; there is the Force.?

Sith code:
?Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.?


The thing is, in religious practices two basic ways of approaching personal, emotional and spiritual growth can be distinguished, namely right hand path religions/philosophies and left hand path religions/philosophies.

Oversimplisticly and put pointedly, right hand path systems are systems that the ultimate goal of having the individual consciousness be absorbed into a greater or cosmic whole. Thus they put more weight on the transcendent realm (netherworld). They approach spiritual growth through the dissolution or submission of the self to (or into) something greater. They try to overcome emotional pressures and problems by letting go of them. In general, they follow strict rules and doctrines with a clearcut morality. In Taoist terms, they are associated with the Yang pole. Among the right hand path systems, there are the traditional western religions like Christianism, Judaism, Islamism, as well as Confucianism and certain branches of Buddhism and Hinduism.

Left hand systems, by contrast, believe that the individual self is preeminent, and that all decisions should be made with the goal of cultivating the self. Thus they put more weight on the immanent realm (this world). They approach spiritual growth through the exploration of the self, including one?s conscious and subconscious emotions, They try to overcome emotional pressures and problems by bringing them to consciousness thus overcoming subconscious controls and achieving freedom of conscious choice. In general, there are no strict moral codes but fluid codes of morality or even an amoral outlook. In Taoist terms, they are associated with the Yin pole. Among left hand paths, there are certain branches of Taoism and Buddhist as well as Hinduist Tantrism, different branches of Satanism (by which I mean philosophical Satanism, not school boy games on graveyards in the middle of the night), as well as Setianism.

For further info, I refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_hand_path and the pages linked there, like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism, especially http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism#Sat.2FTan_Satanism (this link specifically mentions the Sith as a branch of SAT-TAN) and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism

It seems clear to me that there are clear connections between this categorization of right hand and left hand systems, when compared to the Jedi and the Sith code. The Jedi, at least the PT Jedi, in essence seem to follow a right hand path, whereas the Sith code by it?s structure is in essence a left hand system. I?m not quite sure where exactly to classify them within the numerous different schools, but branches of Satanism that use black magic practices (which isn?t true for all Satanist schools) at the moment seems to come the closest to it.

 

Just out of curiousity..where does this Sith Code come from?

 

^^I don't know where it originates, I got it from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sith , but its all over the web - you get over 15000 hits on google by just putting the first line in as a phrase.

 

For me, it is hard to consider the Sith a cult. It is a group of two beings, and for me a cult would requre leadership and masses. It doesn't really work as a society, it is only two people. It might have once been a cult (before the rule of two) but in the films it doesn't really work that way.

Still interesting though, Lucas has an obvious interest in the occult (obvious influence on Indiana Jones.)

-Seldon

 

I see them as possessing some traits of a secret society or a cult, but I really just think of them as a rogue sect of the Jedi, who use the Force for their own purposes.

 

I don't think "rogue sect of the Jedi" is an accurate depiction of the Sith. I think they would find that quite insulting
The Sith philosopy doesn't seem to be about just going against Jedi.
While they may have intially formed just to avoid conforming to Jedi rule (Can someone fill us in on how the Sith were actually started?), they evolved into their own complete religion, philosophy, way of life.
I think they probably feel the Jedi are pathetic for so carefully containing their emotions, when this is exactly what makes the Sith "superior".
They beleive they are freeing themselves through their anger, which is actually shown to be true, because they can become so deeply consumed in the darkside that they are no longer restrained by feelings.

One detail I never really thought about until after Revenge of the Sith is the way Vader acts in the Ep4 scene where Alderaan is destroyed. Many people argued that this showed he was now so evil and hateful that he could do that without remorse. Some pointed out that Tarkin gave the order, and Vader was just along for the ride.
While I agree that Vader didn't regret that the planet was destroyed, I think it is important to realise Vader didn't seem to care either way. He had no hate for this planet, but no compassion. It was like he didn't even notice the planet had been destroyed, because there was "nothing left" within Vader.
I think it is ironic that Vader tried to gain power through his emotions, but it ultimately brought him to an emotionless state.

 

Agree 100% and interestingly in the ROTJ novelisation - when Luke confronts Vader on Endor and says that he can feel his hatred,it says that "vader hated no one,only he lusted too blindfully"

So,in essence the writer is saying the same as above.

Vader only lusted for power and control and cared little how he achieved it.

 

I agree!

Going against the Jedi to me seems more a consequence than something that is at the core of their philosophy.
I think you're perfectly correct with your assessment that they feel superior to the Jedi, because they think the Jedi view is narrow and dogmatic, while their own view embraces the Force in it's entirety and is adaptable. And because they reject the meek approach of the Jedi to submit to the will of the Force (a "will" they don't believe to exist anyways) instead of using it as a tool to achieve their own ends. They're individualistic, their own interests are far more important than those of a greater society or the will of the Force, and they consider the Jedi to be weak because they submit their wishes for the good of society. And I think they contempt the Jedi for fearing to confront their emotions, especially the negative ones, instead of diving into them and instrumentalising them.

And I think it's even more ironic that Sidious somehow seems to have managed to teach Anakin something what the Jedi hadn't succeeded to teach him and the lack of which led to his downfall: Namely to cease letting himself be controlled by his emotions. Which is an essential step of development for both Jedi and Sith.

EDIT: Has anyone read the wikipedia-entry on SAT-TAN linked above and it's reference to the Sith philosophy? I find this concept of the flame in the darkness quite intrigueing and would like to know what other people think about it. Goodness, wouldn't it be the ultimate irony if that statement there was true and the Sith think the Jedi are living in the Darkness, while the Jedi think the exactly opposite of the Sith?

 

I've found some texts on Satanism and even it's relationship to the Sith that might be interesting in our attempts to understand Sith religion/philosophy. These are the major excerpts, just for the "food for thought" purpose:


The Dark Path of Spiritual Satanism

Are you seeking the Flame of Satanism?

The path of Spiritual Satanism is the path of the self.

A Theistic satanist seeks to know the self, above all. At the same time, the theistic realises the divine forces of the universe, and works with the power of black magick, demons and gods. It is the spiritual essence of the Left Hand Path, a path which lets its users face thier inner darkness without fear, and use it as a tool. Working along with the gods of darkness that man has created throughout the ages, enables the Satanist to and gain power, knowledge and inner strength.

Theistic Satanism is a religious path, dealing with gods spirits and demons. We see that gods were created by man, and recognise the existence of magick. To a theist, Satan is a real, sentient, active force in the universe. Satanism is approached with a spiritual view, and is knowable through ritual and meditation. These Satanists use ritual work to aide themselves through spiritual and magickal means.

Aitheistic, or branches of Modern or Laveyan Satanism, are more of a glorified, earthly, animalistic and base lifestyle. They are Satanists who live an earthly life, and use ritual for psychological reasons. They deny the very forces that they work with, but the theistic seeks to embrace it.

Theistic satanists are independent, spiritually aware, and magickally capable of causing change through the will. Most likely, the spiritual satanist is also a user of summoning and ritual to gain knowledge and fulfill thier desires. The followers of this path, are readily encouraged to create thier own self-styled way of enlightenment. Here is a place to seek such knowledge, and decide for yourself.
(Source: http://www.freewebs.com/venus666/directmagick.html )

Sat/Tan Satanism is a unique, quasi-philosophical/quasi-theological brand of Satanism which maintains both religious and non-religious philosophical influences, either inwardly focusing or outwardly. Sat and Tan are Sanskrit words meaning respectively "Being" and "Becoming" (stretching forth), and it has been called by followers often also Dark Doctrine or Dark Discipline Satanism. It maintains that before the universe existed, there was a vast Darkness which represented the concepts of chaos and night, and within that Darkness, there was a Flame or Light which represented Divine Right, or creative capacity. The Flame or Light flared up and spread to the uttermost corners of the Darkness, creating the universe as we know it. Sat/Tan Satanism maintains that today a theoretical "Darkness" still exists throughout the cosmos, and that while all life possesses the creative Flame or Spark of Divine Right, only those individuals defined in this article as Satanists recognize and properly nurture their own Divinity (in the Sat/Tan sense). Those who neglect it are seen as living in the Darkness of ignorance.

An undoubtedly interesting note is that the Sith religion of Star Wars is a form of Sat/Tan Satanism; where The Force is seen as the Flame and the Jedi and their dogma are seen as living in the Darkness of meek or ignorant submission the so-called "Will of the Force" (the Sith believe the Force has no will except when put to proper direction by the will of the Sith Acolyte himself).
(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism#Sat.2FTan_Satanism )


Further info on SAT-TAN:
Sat ? Tan

Theories of the original name of satan could have evolved from the Vedic and Naga, which are even older than the aincent Asian language of Sanskrit. The words, sat- tan which means being, or becomming describe the process of the universe in a continual cycle of death and rebirth. These aincent people descibed this as the snake that swallowed it's tail. According to their

 

Going against the Jedi to me seems more a consequence than something that is at the core of their philosophy.

Agreed, that was kind of what I was getting at.


And because they reject the meek approach of the Jedi to submit to the will of the Force (a "will" they don't believe to exist anyways)...


This is very interesting. Would the Sith train themselves to not hear the force's will, or have they never experienced it and thus believe it to not have any effect.


And I think it's even more ironic that Sidious somehow seems to have managed to teach Anakin something what the Jedi hadn't succeeded to teach him and the lack of which led to his downfall: Namely to cease letting himself be controlled by his emotions. Which is an essential step of development for both Jedi and Sith.


But how did Sidious do it. Is it just the natural effect of the darkside?

I've got another irony (perhaps obvious) - Sidious gains his Empire through Anakin's attachments, and Sidious loses his Empire because of Anakin's attachments.

 

You are assuming that the Force in fact does have a will. I'd have to agree with Sith viewpoint here, I don't believe it does either, at least not in the literal sense. An energy or information field doesn't have a "will", at most there are different likelihoods assigned to different events. I'm not quite sure what the Jedi mean when referring to this "will".

I think the answer might be in one of those excerpts I've posted above: "It is the spiritual essence of the Left Hand Path, a path which lets its users face their inner darkness without fear, and use it as a tool." He taught him how to face his inner darkness - something the Jedi never did. When it comes to the question of how exactly to learn it, by what practices, perhaps by studying literature on Sat-Tan practices we might find out how this could work. But I doubt that these texts will be accessible on the internet.

 

lol, that blew my mind

To be honest, I think part of the reason the "will of the force" idea was created because Lucas is supersticious. Kind of so he wouldn't feel bad about creating and destroying a world onscreen. Just speculation

I totally agree that the Jedi never did this. But I'm unsure that what Sidious did was teach Anakin to face his inner darkness. More that he bent Anakin's perception enough that Anakin didn't realise the repurcussions of what he was doing.
Anakin's turn would have been quite a challenge for Sidious compared to his previous apprentices. I think he took a much more careful approach with Anakin about the true natyre of the darkside.

That's cool, I wasn't planning on becoming a Sith any time soon. or maybe I was...

 

I had an interesting thought - anyone notice that six is a re-ocurring number now that the movies are finished?
Probably just numerous coincidences, but there could be something to it.

Six main apprentices in the onscreen saga; three Jedi, three Sith -
Maul, Dooku, Vader.
Obi-Wan, Anakin, Luke.
Interestingly, Anakin is obviously one of both groups of three.

Six important deaths that contribute to the birth of Vader -
Qui-Gon... Shmi... Dooku... Mace... Padme... Anakin

The obvious one - The order given by Sidious that wipes out most of the Jedi is Order 66, and the Order 66 sequence involves 6 Jedi.

And of course, 6 episodes.

I've noticed more, I can't recall them at the moment

 

Oh yeah, I forgot one of the main ones -

Six people in the onscreen Skywalker family tree.

If you include Sidious/Palpatine as either Anakin's adopted father, or the person who created Anakin throught the darkside (I don't believe this one, but its a cool theory), Sidious becomes the sixth member of the Skywalker family tree.

Shmi, Sidious
Anakin-Padme
Luke , Leia

 

You are really great with those things, you know? Unbelievable those things you keep uncovering! 666 - the number of the beast. Don't tell that to the Pope or he will begin issueing press releases warning against SW, as he did with Harry Potter.

I wonder if that's intentional or just sneaked in. A Sith plot to inflitrate LucasFilm, possibly?

EDIT: This HAS to be a Sith plot. I just discovered that this post is my post No. 666!!!!

 

Whoa, I thought you were joking, but I just checked your profile and you're up to 667.

lol, now I'm scared!

 

You know, I really didn't believe my eyes when I saw that number 666 !

 

Sidious gains his Empire through Anakin's attachments, and Sidious loses his Empire because of Anakin's attachments.

what goes around comes around.

As for Jedi/Sith philosophies they both have got truth in them but they are in their own right unbalanced and as such fundamentally flawed. For example the first line of both codes are incorrect but have and interesting truth behind them: Peace without emotion is a lie (IMO ne way)... i am not sure if that made sense (i havent had my morning coffee yet) but basicaly my view is that both have a truth behind them but nither are absolute.

As for the will of the force i think its more of a case of the jedi hearing what they want to hear rather than them accurately perceiving reality.

As Obi say our definition of the truth/right/wrong depends a great deal on our point of view.

Ne way thats my 2 bit contribution to the discussion.

 

I think I see what you are saying.

The first line of the Jedi code states "There is no emotion, Only peace" when we know that they aren't truely free from emotion completely.

More sixes! :

Yoda should have been at the Jedi Temple during Order66. Instead he went to Kashyyyk to try and bring the Sith out of hiding. Look at the spelling of this planet. Y is sometimes referred to as the "sixth vowel". Hence you could interpret Kashyyyk's spelling as Kash666k.
I mean, think about it. Why does a name need three Y's?

Six kicks in the Obi-Wan/ Anakin duel.