Amph "The Sleeper Has Awakened" - DUNE DISCUSSION-

Any Dune fans here? What's your favorite book? Do you read any of the BH books?

I'm cautiously excited for the new movie. I hope it isn't afraid to go all out and resemble the book.

 

I'm a fan of book one and am a bemused witness of efforts to adapt it to tv/film

 

I absolutely loved Dune, liked Dune Messiah, Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune and dislisked the rest of the sequels. Absolutely detest the stupid Brian Herbert & Anderson books -they are horrendous and a blight on Frank Herbert's memory. Am also bemused by efforts to adapt it to tv/film.

 

Huge fan of the Dune novels but only the ones by Frank. Couldn't get into the others, too many inconsistencies. Didn't like the Lynch movie, loved the Dune and Children of Dune mini series since they were more faithful however they have dated. I'm optimistic that Denis Villeneuve can adapt the first novel (and hopefully the sequels) and bring it to silver screen in a big way.

 

I lost interest in Brian Herbert when I read his first attempt at the so called 'prequel' trilogy. I recall he tried to give Baron Harkonnen a 'backstory' which was basically that he was a gloriously fit and handsome specimen until some Bene Genesserit gave him a sexually transmitted disease which caused his obesity. It was at that point that I realised that some people just shouldn't mess with other people's characters, even characters invented by the author's daddy.

 

I have never read the books, and from what I see here, i shouldn't. I would like the first one, get invested, read all of them, be disappointed.

I loved the movie.
I would probably have loved the Jodorowsky version with the Pink Floyd soundtrack even more.

Featuring, I kid you not:
- Mick Jagger
- Orson Welles
- Salvador Dali
- David Carradine

 

The first Dune novel is ****ing awesome, you must read it immediately.

 

If you say so

 

I have read the first book frequently as its one of my favorites. I've read Dune Messiah once and I really enjoyed it--almost more than the first. Scytale rocks. But I've heard mixed things about the rest of the series. I would love to give them a read, though.

Sent from A TRANSMISSION BEAMED ABOARD THIS SHIP--

 

You're missing out on the science fiction equivalent of Lord of the Rings then.

 

Dune Messiah is my favorite of the original trilogy. I think it has a very different tone from the other novels. The Sci-Fi channel Children of Dune miniseries is quite good, imo. So much better than their bizarre Dune miniseries. In some ways, the CoD miniseries is probably better than the book.

 

Agreed on both counts, although man, if fans of the book were upset with the changes the Lynch film made, hoo boy that Jodorowsky version.

Not really sure what a new film could hope to accomplish other than making the Herbert estate and/or the film studio more money, but... eh, that's probably the main motivation anyway.

 

Jodorowsky's Dune would've been interesting to see, but it would've been nothing like Dune. Even from the concept art, it doesn't feel like Dune. There's a lot of odd symbolism, like the Padishah Emperor (played by Dali) sitting on a toilet throne with 2 dolphin statues behind him, shooting excrement into each others mouths. I mean, what the heck, man!

 

He's said in interviews it was really just a film version of a dream he had that had enough overlap with Dune to slap a license on it. And as I can believe Jodorowsky's dreams would feature a toilet throne with two dolphin statues shooting excrement into each others' mouths, yeah, that checks out.

 

The Sci-Fi miniseries was good. Everything written by Frank was at least interesting, though I found things became a bit more strange than compelling after the end of God Emperor. I was quite taken with Alia when I was a boy. That is all.

 

There was also going to be an extended sequence taking place in the Lady Jessica's, uh, lady parts.

 

Love Dune! For years my sister heavily recommended I read it and I finally got around to it a couple of summers ago. I was sort of familiar with the universe because when I was a lot younger I remember watching some of the Sci-Fi miniseries and Children of Dune with my sister, but finally reading the first novel was a great experience. Still need to get around to reading Dune Messiah though.

With Game of Thrones being a (relatively) faithful adaptation of A Song of Ice and Fire, I would be excited if HBO decided to pick Dune up as a series. I feel like they could finally do the novel justice.

 

I just want to see a version of Dune where Paul isn't played by someone in their thirties and is actually a teenager.

 

Is it really?

I hear that about the original Dune series (and sometimes the Foundation series)... but when I look up summaries and reviews of them, it just seems rather bleh and cold and needlessly convoluted and not a realistic depiction of the future. I gave the Dune movie a chance once, many years ago, and I just had the same feeling. It just didn't "connect." Maybe they are the best of sci-fi... but that doesn't make them on par with Lord of the Rings.

 

I also try to judge the accurate placement of a book series in the popular consciousness based on second hand impressions and a film adaptation which could charitably be regarded as "divisive."

Maybe actually... try reading it? Crazy I know.

Edit: Which is not to say you should feel obligated to enjoy Dune but trying to compare artistic works based solely on hearsay is asinine.

 

If youre looking for something thats hard science fiction then this isn't for you. Dune is closer to the Star Wars mystical stuff, despite most of the books mystical nature having a humdrum explanation of its mysticality.

I would at least give the first book an open minded try. The novel does eventually do an adequate job of explaining what all the things are that it throws at you right off the bat, like CHOAM, the Gom Jabbar, the Bene Gesserit...

One of my favorite thing about the first book is the Sardaukar.

Also, the Foundation series may be an easier read. Definitely full of tension and suspense and hardly a gun is fired. I would greatly recommend giving the original Foundation novel. You don't have to commit to whole series yet.

Sent from A TRANSMISSION BEAMED ABOARD THIS SHIP--

 

Dune's not about mysticism, it's about ritual and the co-opting of culture, faith, and belief. That, to me, is what makes it so brilliant. The plot is painfully basic, but it's the exploration of colonialism, religion, cultural mores, and politics that make it good.

 

Lord of the Rings features a protagonist who turns to the dark side at the end. The Dune Chronicles has two main protagonists, Muad'dib and Leto II, who openly uses the religions of their people to further their own ends, rather against Houses Harkonnen and Corrino or the drug induced Golden Path. One of the main reasons people who prefer Dune over LOTR, myself included, in this greater degree of complexity of characterization vis-a-vis LOTR.

I have a hard time deciding on if Dune Messiah or God Emperor of Dune are my favorite because each of those novels deconstruct the previous novels' protagonists, and this is something a lot of genre readers do not like.

"Hi, look at me, I went to Heaven, I'm in paradise!" Reread God Emperor. The Fremen realize their dream of a green Arrakis, and they completely lost all of their chi. The scene where Duncan version 215 or whatever is with Leto II during the religious ceremony, and Leto II (in his great James McAvoy voice) tells Duncan, hey, eat your wafer. Great stuff. Even better than Christopher Hitchens babbling about thought crime while he was drunk.

On other subjects, I'm starting to appreciate the Lynch film more if only for the fact the miniseries has terrible costumes. Really, I understand you spent all of your money for William Hurt's valum, but for frak's sake? Irulan has some odd butterfly deal on her back when she shows up with Feyd. Then again, Ian McNeice craps in Kenneth McMillan's mouth every time. Truly worth more than ten legions of sardukar.

The big guess, what time of spice orgy did Brian Herbert go through to think KJA, who cannot even write EU, should be his sidekick? Meh.

 

A spice orgy funded by KJA's many royalty cheques, I'm sure. Guy's a bankable quantity.

Anyways, I hope Denis Villeneuve actually makes this movie happen.

 

I do believe so, yes. I've read alot of science fiction and I can't think of anything that has such rich characters and worlds. Even Arthur C. Clarke said "I know nothing comparable to it except Lord of the Rings." I'd say he knows a thing or two about the genre. You need to experience it yourself, don't go by reviews and summaries.