The Symbolism of Lightsabers

Vader is Palpatine's lightsaber (so are Maul and Dooku, for that matter)

Luke, as well, has been described as being a lightsaber.

Jacen becomes the lightsaber in TUF. For what he does, lightsabers are unnecessary in Traitor.

Jaina is the Sword of the Jedi. As we all know, Jedi use what Yippieeekin calls "laser swords" (I assume we can somehow kludge these so-called laser swords into lightsabers ).

Anakin Solo is memorialized as a physical lightsaber.


Freudian humor aside, what does the lightsaber mean?

Discuss.

 

lightsaber= saber o' light

 

Bah! More of Shade and ThrawnMcEwok's Machinations of Evil!




Seriously, It makes sense.

What does Lightsaber mean? I think it represents a force user knowledge of the Force greater than anything else.

Dooku Said: "It is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force...but by our skills with a lightsaber.

A Force users skill with a "lightsaber" is testimony to their attunement to the Force.

Same goes for Sith Masters, who rather use their apprentice as their "Lightsaber", most of the time. The Masters Ability to train a obedient, powerfull, and capable student, And manipulate his "Lightsaber" as he sees fit is also Testimony to his Great skill with the Force.

What does it mean when Jacen in TUF "became the lightsaber"? Since he surrendered himself to the "Will of the Force", I guess that means he was the Force's "Lightsaber". Or maybe, even something deeper, or ...Darker.

-Jabba out

 

Shadeleader: Freudian humor aside, what does the lightsaber mean?

Whatever you want it to mean? In Hero's Trial, Vergere describes the Force as "a two-edged sword"... and this from the same Space Chicken who's later caught up with the symbolism of the "edgeless" lightsaber...

Basically, it's a weapon... an elegant weapon, for a more civilized age, not as clumsy or random as a blaster, and not so insanely Freudian as a Stokhli stunstick...

It's a beacon in the night, and it requires discipline and insight to use it well... but it can also be a burning firebrand, wielded with passion and strength...

What it means is almost entirely dependant on who wields it... all the symbolism of the lightsaber as "the weapon of a Jedi knight" is shot apart by the fact that the Sith use them as well...

And, fundamentally, it's a duelling weapon...

Blithe: Bah! More of Shade and ThrawnMcEwok's Machinations of Evil!



Mwahahahahaha!

Seriously, It makes sense.

What does Lightsaber mean? I think it represents a force user knowledge of the Force greater than anything else.

Dooku Said: "It is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force...but by our skills with a lightsaber.

A Force users skill with a "lightsaber" is testimony to their attunement to the Force.

Same goes for Sith Masters, who rather use their apprentice as their "Lightsaber", most of the time. The Masters Ability to train a obedient, powerfull, and capable student, And manipulate his "Lightsaber" as he sees fit is also Testimony to his Great skill with the Force.

What does it mean when Jacen in TUF "became the lightsaber"? Since he surrendered himself to the "Will of the Force", I guess that means he was the Force's "Lightsaber". Or maybe, even something deeper, or ...Darker



I'm impressed... with the whole thing... have a Golden Ewok?!

The 'saber is a symbol of skill, authenticating a Force-user in terms that have nothing to do with "right" and "wrong"...

Think about Han's comments at the end of TUF that Anakin's blade ought to be wielded by someone as noble as Chewie... Chewie was no Jedi, but he was a good guy.

Another thought... Anakin describes the 'saber to Vua as "greater than the sum of its parts". It's about harmonies, as well... "fixing things" in the way that the Solos and Skywalkers are so good at, lining stuff up, making it work...

So how does that track back to Tahiri/Anakin?

And does the same symbolism have a wider application in terms of what Jedi are supposed to be doing...?

And I'll throw in the thought that Mara, as much as Vader, was Palpatine's lightsaber... she complimented Vader much as she compliments Luke... note Skywalker's comments about their differing styles in SQ...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

The EU turned Vader into Palpatine´s battleaxe.

Mara was the emperor´s scalpel.

 

What does Yoda say in ESB? "Luminous beings we are? ..." or some such fortune-cookie platitude? (I like General Yoda better than Confucious Yoda)

Anyway, in their ideal state living creatures are light, not base matter. It's metaphor, but also not. Living creatures ideally transcend their material form. Is this why Obi wan and Yoda and Anakin vanish? I think so.

That very idea slices through all materially-based systems. In ANH, Darth Vader has not learned this, and so the image of Vader cutting through thin air at a vanished Obi Wan is iconic of the weakness of the Empire/(Sith). Machines and big guns get you nowhere ultimately. It is a committment to the light and the spirit which transcends matter that matters.

Darth Vader learns this at the end of his life. And Jacen learns this. Does Anakin Solo learn this?

 

Lightsabers are weapons. Laser swords. They cut and cauterize people. They hurt. They kill.

So what's the question?

 

But they can also prevent fights. Some people see a lightsaber and they're frozen with fear.

 

Lightsabers? Just phallic symbols. I see your Schwartz is as big as mine. . .

 

FTeik: The EU turned Vader into Palpatine´s battleaxe.

Mara was the emperor´s scalpel.

And the NJO turned Mara into Luke's battleaxe?

Classixboy: What does Yoda say in ESB? "Luminous beings we are? ..." or some such fortune-cookie platitude? (I like General Yoda better than Confucious Yoda)

Really? I prefer crazy swamp hermit Yoda... fortune-cookie Yoda is trying to turn Luke into a cookie-cutter Jedi, because it's all he can hope for... which leads me neatly on...

Anyway, in their ideal state living creatures are light, not base matter. It's metaphor, but also not. Living creatures ideally transcend their material form. Is this why Obi wan and Yoda and Anakin vanish? I think so.

That very idea slices through all materially-based systems. In ANH, Darth Vader has not learned this, and so the image of Vader cutting through thin air at a vanished Obi Wan is iconic of the weakness of the Empire/(Sith). Machines and big guns get you nowhere ultimately. It is a committment to the light and the spirit which transcends matter that matters.

Excellent! Nay, superb! Have a Golden Ewok?!

Darth Vader learns this at the end of his life. And Jacen learns this. Does Anakin Solo learn this?

Maybe not - I think Anakin Solo may learn a more subtle, more important lesson... or may have been trying to express something slightly different all along... and yes, this may not be the POV of George, LFL/DelRey, or the novellists...

There's a difference between life, light, and love. It's possible to have a reductionist, utilitarian view even of "luminous beings"... take all of Ben and Yoda's warnings to Luke... they couldn't actually percieve of anything more than creating a Light Side warrior who might be strong enough to take down Vader, if not Palpatine... that's their limited aim, I think... do what they can, throw the only kid they have left back into the fight one final time, and hope he can achieve something... kill Vader, train Leia, and take the war to the Empire... maybe...

Instead, Luke does something a little different - something, IMHO, that neither Vader nor Jacen achieved, and something that I don't think Luke himself ever fully understood... but something that Jimmy Vader was trying to rediscover...

Something that's not about the Force at all, but about love and humanity...

The lightsaber is the weapon of a Jedi, and the Force is his ally. But - at least in layman's terms - the Sith have lazer-swords as well, and they use the Force, too. I don't think that what Luke did actually defines that difference (odd coming from me, eh?)... I think it's something far more important...

Something you don't actually need a lightsaber, or the Force, to do... and something that stands in odd contrast with Jacen Solo wandering around with nothing to his name except a lightsaber, not using the Force because he thinks that's "what the Force wants"...

The Rebels won at Endor without - and in Luke's specific case by not - using the Force...

I don't know that Vader even necessarily used anything other than his own human strenght to throw Palpatine down that big hole in the deck...

And I suspect that it's also implicit in Anakin's "the Force is a tool, Jacen is an ass" attitude...

I'm not sure I understand it fully myself... is the question Perceval has to ask more important than the quest to "find" the Grail? Was the Grail ever truly "lost", or was it just that no-one asked the right question?

Am I starting to repeat myself? Do you understand what I'm trying to say? Do I?!

That, at least, is my take on Anakin, Luke, Jacen and Vader (in no particular order)... trouble is, I sometimes get this sense that LFL/DelRey - and maybe even George - maybe don't see things in quite the same way...

So where then?

- The Imperial Ewok

 

Lightsabers are weapons, but they have a much greater meaning to the Jedi. Constructing a lightsaber is a required task to complete before the rank of Jedi Knight is granted, so it's significance goes beyond having a weapon at your side when you need to open up a can of the Jedi Beatdown.

First a lightsaber is a physical representation of the Jedi's connection to the Force. One must be able to feel and manipulate the Force in order to forge the lightsaber, and must be able to maintain that level of focus for up to a month (most accounts of lightsaber construction involve a long period of solitary meditation). At a basic level the lightsaber is a test and proof of the ability to feel and use the Force.

The lightsaber is also a symbolic link between the mystical aspects of the Jedi Order, being conscious of and obeying the will of the Force, and the more secular role of Jedi as peacekeepers and mediators. The lightsaber is forged out of a connection to the Force and the transcendence it represents, yet the lightsaber is used to enforce law in the galaxy. The lightsaber is often how the will of the Force manifests itself in the galaxy at large through the actions of the Jedi.

Third the crafting of a lightsaber is a link to the past, present, and future of the Jedi Order. It is something that all Jedi do, so there is a common experience for all Jedi to share in and unite them across age and species. It also links the Jedi to those who served before and those who will serve after, providing a historical context for the Order and their mission. Wielding a lightsaber makes someone part of that grand tradition.

 

One of the symbolic characteristics of lightsabers I've always enjoyed is their "focused" and "circular" nature: energy is focused, is expressed for a purpose, and returned to its source.

The Force is focused by those who can wield it, is expressed for their purposes, and it returns to the Force... or so I believe.

 

Some good points, all around.

But, what does it mean to equate a person with a lightsaber.

It could mean they're focused, or perhaps even angry.

It also marginalizes them, makes them nothing more than a weapon.

Look what happened to Anakin Solo. Ben Kenobi and Darth Vader, also. Nothing more than their weapons.

But...

"For what I do, lightsabers are irrelevant."

Regardless of what I say about Jacen, this is the line of NJO.

Because out of all the characters who 'become' lightsabers, only one other character takes this stance.

Luke Skywalker. Luke goes against his training and ultimately refuses to be anybody's weapon, neither the Sith's nor the Jedi's. He lays down 'the weapon of a Jedi Knight', rejects the traditions of his predecessors and forges something new in that instant - a tradition of love and conscience. He refuses both paths in front of him and chooses a higher one.

So, at the end, the Prioress is right. Amor Vincit Omnia. And to think Chaucer makes fun of her.

 

awesome post, Shadeleader

So, at the end, the Prioress is right. Amor Vincit Omnia. And to think Chaucer makes fun of her.

Well, a lot of people make fun of Jacen too. But that doesn't make him any less right. It's all about your point-of-view. Btw, amor = roma.

 

While the Tale of the Prioress is fraught with other issues (not the least of which is its anti-semitism), Shadeleader makes a good point, as well: "Love conquers all."

However, through the course of the EU, Luke seems to have walked away from this path. It's certainly arguable - for what isn't, in the end - but I wonder if Jacen has been allowed to go where Luke was not. The EU needed Luke to be the "weapon" he was during the movies. Those responsible for creating the EU often talk of the need for products to be idetifiable by "movie only" fans. Therefore, a philosopher Luke would ring false for a target group.

Of course, the in-GFFA answer is that the New Republic, the Jedi Order, and the galaxy itself needed Luke to be more of a weapon...

Interesting ideas.

 

Excellent Post Shade!

I agree with that, but i have this question: Is this where you get the idea that Jacen was Wrong in in his fight with Omini in TUF?

Thanks.

-Jabba out

 

SkipMasterJ: all true. For the Jedi. Remember, it's probably all true for the Sith, as well...

jedimasterED: nice imagery, but isn't that framing people in terms of the Force, rather than the Force in terms of people... is it any more "right" for Jacen to be used as a tool by the Force than it is for Anakin to use the Force as a tool?

Shadeleader: So, at the end, the Prioress is right. Amor Vincit Omnia. And to think Chaucer makes fun of her.

Because she's talking about it, rather than living it?

Random thought - Anakin Skywalker was reduced to his lightsaber as well... to Ben, it serves as a symbol of the man he was... of the good in him...

classixboy: Well, a lot of people make fun of Jacen too. But that doesn't make him any less right. It's all about your point-of-view.

I don't think what you're thinking of would be approved by traditional Jedi doctrine...



- The Imperial Ewok

 

Thrawn McEwok: all true. For the Jedi. Remember, it's probably all true for the Sith as well...

I think as a test of their connection to the Force a Sith's lightsaber serves the same function.

However, the Sith tend to use lightsabers to enforce their will (not the will of the Force) on others through violence. For the Sith a lightsaber is just a tool to deal lots of damage to their enemies. I think this is reflected in the Sith practice of forging their own crystals and making them more powerful than natural crystals. The lightsaber for the Sith is a symbol of their own will harnasing the power of the Force to increase their own ends.

Also the Sith grew out of a group of Jedi that were expelled from the order. Perhaps they keep the lightsaber tradition to remind themselves that they were once "weak" like the Jedi but now they have harnased the power of the Force to increase their own power.

 

Lightsabers are the light that banishes the darkness. They are menat to strike fear in the hearts of those who have reason to fear and bring hope to those who need it.

 

As Vergere said, it is interesting that the lightsaber is round. Yes, it is nothing but edge, but I draw something else from the roundness of it as well. A blade without a point is not, by nature, an agressive killing weapon, unless its something crazy... The point would symbolize an intent to thrust-a deadly riposte, or two hand thrust are killing moves. While these are still possible, the circular part of the blade I guess expresses finding the peaceful soultion.


Wow, that was stupid.

 

SkipMasterJ: However, the Sith tend to use lightsabers to enforce their will (not the will of the Force) on others through violence.

But might the Sith Master, consumed by the Dark Side of the Force, not in fact be serving "the will of the Force"?

Beyond that, yeah.

Knight: Lightsabers are the light that banishes the darkness. They are menat to strike fear in the hearts of those who have reason to fear and bring hope to those who need it.

Unless they're being used by the bad guys...

Suzuki_Akira: As Vergere said, it is interesting that the lightsaber is round.

But she also said that "the Force is a two-edged sword"...

Yes, it is nothing but edge, but I draw something else from the roundness of it as well. A blade without a point is not, by nature, an agressive killing weapon, unless its something crazy... The point would symbolize an intent to thrust-a deadly riposte, or two hand thrust are killing moves. While these are still possible, the circular part of the blade I guess expresses finding the peaceful soultion.


Wow, that was stupid.

Far from it... using the point isn't part of traditional Jedi fighting techniques... but it is a deadly weapon... the point is first raised when Mara slips past Luke's guard in TLC, using a move Palpatine tought her... then, in TPM, that's how Maul kills Qwi-Gon...

It's also, curiously, how Qwi-Gon tries to force the door of the TF command ship's bridge...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

But might the Sith Master, consumed by the Dark Side of the Force, not in fact be serving "the will of the Force"?

That is most likely the case, but the difference between the Jedi and the Sith is that the Jedi makes a conscious, free decision to serve the Force, while the Sith deludes himself into thinking that he is only serving himself. In this regard, it seems as though the Sith are quite pathetic in their stubborn refusal to make the truly free choice.

 

But do we really know that? Doesn't Vader think that Palpatine understands "the true nature of the Force"? Something about power corrupting? Are the Jedi just lying to themselves?

Other thoughts. Sometimes, Freudian humour is entirely appropriate. Ben Skywalker is greater than the sum of his parent's parts.

Jimmy Vader drops his lightsaber just before he dies, and the Force floods out of him.

And most importantly of all, what Luke realised was happening in RotJ was that he was "becoming the lightsaber"... his father had become the lightsaber - literally, physically...

And now, Jacen's taken that same path...

- The Imperial Ewok