PT The Trade Negotiations, It's not That Hard To Understand!

Often Prequel bashers will complain that they didn't want to see Star Wars have "trade negotiations". It's not that big a deal to me, the trade negotiations were a plot device for us to be introduced to Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Jar Jar and Padme.

I've never understood why the haters complained about this. They all act like Phantom Menace was so hard to understand, I understood everything when I was twelve when it came to the trade negotiation stuff.

Haters also act like it's so hard to describe the plot of Phatom Menace, I've done it in bullet points:

• Trade dispute happened
• Jedi were secretly sent to help
• Trade Federation attacked them
• They go down to the planet to help Queen Amidala
• They escape but have to stop on Tatooine for repairs
• Meet extraordinary boy, he helps them get money for repairs
• Go to Coruscant for help, Anakin is not accepted by the Jedi
• Amidala's pleas for help don't work, calls ot kick out Valorum
• Decides to go home and tell the Trade Federation to "Get off my lawn!"
• With the help of the Jedi and Anakin, she does just that
• Anakin is accepted for Jedi training.

Why do the obnoxious fanboys act like they don't understand the plot? It's not that hard, I've seen more complicated movies, such as the Rebuild of Evangelion movies, and those are actually complicated! You want a hard to understand movie? Try Rebuild of Evangelion! Those will break your brain!

 

THANK YOU! I never understood why people always said they hated those scenes. They were Corrupt economics and politics 101! They were never complicated, and added so much to the world.

Edit: By world I mean galaxy

 

Perhaps it's NOT hard to understand it's simply politics and TPM's plot don't speak to everyone, hardly a crime.

 

The thing I find hardest to understand is when people talk about all the boring scenes in the senate... of which there were only 2. Combined, they last about 2 minutes at the most.

 

Your subtle trolling attempts at appearing impartial aren't working.

 

Yup , it's not big philosophy ...

 

Well no, that's not hard to understand at all. But when you dig into the political stuff a little deeper does it become a little messier to figure out. For instance, there was a trade dispute. It's a very vague idea that is only hinted at in the movies but its never really fully explained that well. What exactly IS the Trade dispute? Why did it piss off the Trade Federation? Was it a bill that was being passed in Congress? These are the questions that the naysayers are getting confused over.

The issue with THAT, however, is that the trade disputes themselves aren't really an important part of the story. They are literally an excuse for all the characters to act in the manner they do. The TF can invade Naboo by making if appear they are protesting the Trade issue. Palpatine tries to gain power in the Senate by taking advantage of the trade dispute and the Senate's inability to answer it. It's just a background buzz term meant to get the story ball rolling. It doesn't really require any deeper understanding to...understand the plot.


Oh, and also, Cushing's Admirer is not a troll. Anyone who loves Christopher Lee and Peters Cushing as much as CA does is AOK in my book.

 

I don't know that it's hard to understand. However, I would add that it's not told particularly well in my opinion. It's not a major issue, but there's no real understanding as to certain parties motivations. At times it seems the Federation acts in a way to help the phantom menace in ways that don't make sense for what they are allegedly seeking to achieve. It's just not told.....well.

 

The plot in TPM is not really hard to follow but if you start to examine the details of the plot, some things don't totally make sense.

It is not really a Trade dispute, it is more of Tax dispute.
The taxations of trade routes is apparently under discussion. The TF blockade Naboo hoping to resolve something about this matter and the Senate are unable to resolve the issue. So the chancellor sends two Jedi to put an end to this BS.

So the question one could ask is: who is taxing whom?

The simple answer and probably what the film is going with, the senate have put taxes on some trade routes. The TF don't like it and they are then blockading Naboo as a form of protest.
But this leads to further questions, given how much influence the TF has in the senate, how did this Tax bill ever get passed? Also, the TF would want action in the senate, not a dead-lock. But a dead-lock is what Sidious tells them about.
Also while a blockade might work as a protest, an invasion would not. So what do the TF have to gain by an invasion?
And before you yell at me, I know they are just doing what Sidious tells them to, a motivation beyond that would not be amiss.
Plus this also raises the questions of how their actions could ever be legal, the TF are protesting a senate decision by blockading a planet that had nothing to do with it. So not only are they protesting/not following the law, they are hurting innocent people as a protest. It would be like Microsoft blockading Hawaii in protest over some new corporate tax.

There have been some discussion on these boards about an alternative scenario, that the TF are the ones who are taxing the trade routes. Based on some EU, it seems the trade routes to the outer regions of the republic were deemed unprofitable so the senate removed the taxes on those routes to promote trade. The TF started to ship goods but had a problem with piracy and asked the senate to do something about it. The senate could not be bothered but gave the TF right to arm their ships and make an droid army.
So, based on these things, maybe the senate gave the TF the right to tax the trade to the outer planets, to compensate them for providing security in the outer systems. The TF abused this power and taxed planets very hard. This would explain how the TF control so many systems. The TF exchanged tax cuts for control over planets.
But Naboo refuses to pay these unfair taxes and so the TF blockades them in return. This would make the blockade at least somewhat legal and it would make it hard for the senate. They have given the TF this right because they could not be bothered to deal with piracy. And now that has come back to bit them in the behind.

Other question that arise, what was Sidious original plan? I have come across some that argued that his plan all along was for Padme to escape and come to Coruscant and call for the vote of no confidence.
To me, this make very little sense.
From the film, it seemed that he wanted Padme to sign some treaty that would make the TF's control of Naboo legal.
The TF would then remove the blockade and rule Naboo.
But how would this help the TF get rid off the tax? Unless they are the ones who tax Naboo.
And how would this get rid off Valorum? Sure this would make Valorum look weak if the TF just gets control of a planet.
But the TF already controls a lot of planets and Valorum is fine. Given how Palpatine already has the senate eating out of his hands, it seems that he could have gotten rid of Valorum anytime.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

I'll admit, while I love the film dearly-- I have no blinkin' idea what the trade issue was about whatsoever. Maybe I was asleep that day in historical-social-economics class.

From what I gathered:
The Trade Federation wants to block all shipping to Naboo. (Not sure why? Naboo is somehow dependent on others for food & goods? They seemed like a prosperous people, but we're told they're positively starving.)

They put up a blockade that is "Perfectly legal". (Seems about as legal as if my neighbor sat on my front lawn with a shotgun forbidding any of my friends from coming in, or me going out.)

The Trade Federation decided to do this because they were unhappy with the taxation of trade routes. (Which kinda sounds to me like Naboo didn't want to do business with them due to higher taxes & whatever, so this is the TF's way of "picketing" the planet to prevent Naboo doing business elsewhere.)

I'm truly interested in how folks explain this so I hope this topic remains open.

 

My opinion of the situation is thusly:

The Republic raises the taxes of shipping lanes. The Trade Federation, is obviously not happy about this, as they like money and don't want to give any away to taxes.

Palpatine uses the taxes (could he have possibly gotten them raised in the first place?) as a means to convince the TF to help him.

They blockade Naboo in opposition to the tax. Their senate representative Lot Dodd has enough power to hand wave the legality of this, and can stall for time.

Palpatine's plan seems to be to eventually invade Naboo, capturing the Queen, and using the situation to create sympathy for him, when someone calls for a Vote-of-no-confidence in Valorum because of the invasion.

However, the Jedi force him to accelerate his plans, and the Queen manages to escape. Using her impassioned debate as extra leverage, Palpatine gets elected, and doesn't care either way what happens with the TF.

10 years later, the TF comes to Dooku, telling him about Sidious' role in events, although Dooku obviously already knows this.

Pretty simple all things considered.

 

I think that courtesy between members here on this forum should remain even if we differ in opinions.


While I understand and even found audacious the realistic setting that George Lucas wanted to give in its story of a democracy becoming an empire despite the fantastic diemnsion of his saga, I certainly don't think that it may have been the best idea to begin with a trade dispute on the opening crawl.

No, it's not hard to understand. But it's not either the best way to begin the first chapter with this. In fact, while you look at our real world's history, there are multiples reasons for a democracy turning into a dictatorship, and one of the main reasons is when a democracy stops listening to the people and becomes very messy. That, I think, was perfectly demonstrated when the senate didn't want to intervene in order to help the Naboo even if the Queen came by herself to the senate and was begging the Republic for help. But I think the confusion in a lot of people comes from the fact that they were immediately assailed by stories about Trade dispute and taxation in the opening crawl and then the story about a treaty, and that the expectations for this movie were too high.

 

It gets the Star Wars saga off on a weird -- but oddly cogent -- note.

If other people don't like it, that's fine. It seems a lot of the people complaining, however, just like to complain, and have made little effort to understand the storyteller or the messages he was trying to get across.

The trade dispute is something trivial (but also keys into the film's grand theme of symbiosis) which Palpatine exploits for a bigger gain. "The Phantom Menace" = "The Fake Threat". From a trade dispute to an inter-galactic civil war. Star Wars is invested in this sort of awesome scaling.

There is a history lesson here and much else. That's my view, anyway.

 

A lot of people, including myself are sharing your view.

It did bring a larger scale to the Star Wars universe. But I think that the only problem was how it was introduced.

 

Goooooooood.

Granted, it's a little in-your-face. But that's kind of the point: you're thrust into a world (like the original) that you don't fully understand the workings of (but with obvious connection points to real history).

The Star Wars crawls are quite weird. That anyone accepts them as normal is, well, interesting, to me. Then again, everything in Star Wars is a bit weird, so that's okay.

Jar Jar Binks...

 

You have to remember that Palpatine is playing two roles here and telling half truths to both sides. One the one side, as Sidious he is telling the Federation that disrupting the taxation of the trade routes is important to their long term prosperity. The Federation has a monopoly on the trade routes, without having to pay taxes to the Republic. The Senate is in need of cash, so they tax the trade routes. The Federation doesn't like this as it would weaken their hold and so Sidious tells them to blockade the planet and that he would make sure that once they invade, that he will make their occupation legal and then the Federation could work towards getting rid of the taxation all together. The other side is Palpatine's plan which is to create a sympathy vote by showing Valorum to be weak and indecisive, so that he could become Chancellor. One side didn't know what the other was doing.

 

The real irony is that no trade negotiations ever actually took place in the film. Or, as Obi-Wan put it, "The negotiations were short."

 

It's not that hard, and people really make it more complicated than it should be.

The taxes are on trade routes. The Trade Federation, according to its name, makes business on trade. Therefore, the dispute is probably because they think taxes are too high. This is a common point of contention throughout history, ranging from the American Revolution to the modern day Tea Party.

To resolve this tax conflict, the Trade Federation resorted to the use of militrary force. Again, this is precedented by some of the most famous events in US history. Exactly why Naboo was the target is left unexplained. Perhaps Naboo was part of the Republic in favor of higher taxes (the fact that Palpatine is the Naboo senator means he could've played his part to create this conflict). Or perhaps the Trade Federation just chose Naboo because it was defenseless and wouldn't be able to defend against its thuggish protest.

The blockade Is sort of like a big sit in occupation for the purpose of forcing political change. Or one of those extremist rallies where the protestors wave around guns and make thinly veiled threats to do something with them.

The movie doesn't go into the details because they're not important to the actual plot. Basically, the Trade Federation was strong arming the Naboo for political-economic gain. If that sounds petty, I believe that was the intention. It shows that the Trade Federation is motivated by pure greed. That it was unjustified to throw around its military might like that, and that this was clearly not a conflict between two equally offended parties.

On a deeper thematic level, it shows of the dysfunction plaguing the Republic and says something about real life history and government. The Republic is clearly in disarray. Member worlds attack other member worlds. They get away with outward claims of legality while the Senate "endlessly debates" without taking action. Within a decade, this spawns a Separatist movement and a civil war that divides the the galaxy along species lines.

I fully believe that the Prequels were inspired by a range of events throughout history. The League of Nations' impotence against fascist aggression is mirrored by the way the Republic stood aside while Naboo was invaded. The Clone Wars shared a similarity with the US Civil War, both having a "Grand Army of the Republic." Palpatine's rise to power through fear and war is similar to those of other famous tyrants.

These things ring true to me because they keep repeating in cycles even today, after the Prequels. Anyone who follows current American politics knows that the Senate is too uselessly gridlocked to take much action on anything.

The whole trade conflict is simple to understand on a surface level for the purposes of an adventure movie ("Trade Federation = greedy and evil"). However, it also provides more depth to the movies that relates to real life events.

Far from bashing on it, I think fans should be giving credit to the movies for doing something like this.

 

The "trade dispute" is a McGuffin....Now, I really don't mind that. My problem is when the claim is made that a really complex story is being told and..that's what elevates the PT. No, there really isn't a complex back-story, there's a McGuffin called the "trade dispute",. If you look under the bonnet then...the engine's made of cardboard. there is no actual back-story, it is simply a structural artifice within the movie round which the plot can revolve.


So...to surmise. Don't really have a problem with it - as long as it is accepted for what it is, but please don't argue that its part of some uber-complex sub-structure of a well considered and fully-formed IU 'reality' - it isn't.

Oh, and Cushing's Admirer is no troll.

 

It is a McGuffin for the purpose of the plot. However, what makes you think there wasn't deeper thought behind it? The idea about government corruption leading to a takeover by big business interests goes back to the backstory given in the old ANH novelization. The prequels were rather clear about Lucas's thoughts about government and society, with scenes such as Palpatine's proclamation of the Galactic Empire.

Lucas is well known for his wide interests and range of influences. Westerns, 1930s pulps, Asian culture, and history all informed his SW movies.

 

Page 1 of the aformentioned novelization no less and the only part of the journal of the whills that we have an example of.

 

Having some vague, ill formed notion of "corruption" does not equate to having a well-considered backstory "all worked out".

 

You seem determined to label the backstory as poorly considered, "cardboard," and "ill formed". I don't care to argue these semantics with you. There's just clear evidence that Lucas had a purpose behind his intentions, and was drawing from a lot of influences.