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PT The validity of aggregators?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Hawt for Rey, Nov 29, 2015.

  1. Hawt for Rey

    Hawt for Rey Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2015
    Episode I: 56%, audience 60%.
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_i_the_phantom_menace/

    Episode II: 65%, audience 59%.
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_ii_attack_of_the_clones_3d/

    These "slightly above average" ratings reflect the general impression I got from reading various reviews: certain elements (the usual suspects) were loathed, other aspects were praised, and some considered okay/mediocre. The positive tendency probably because at the end of the day, they were considered at least decent, moody Sci-Fi spectacles.


    Episode III: 79%, evil conspiracy audience: 65%.
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_iii_revenge_of_the_sith_3d/
    Well, intense, dark epic for some, somewhat underwhelming costume drama with uneven acting for others - seems legit to me.

    Episode VI: 79%, audience: 95%.
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/return_of_the_jedi/
    So audience is really in favor of OT stuff, critics found the strongest of I-III to meet the weakest original one in the middle.


    So far so reasonable, right?

    But wait - oh my! What is this:
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/matrix_revolutions/?search=matrix revolutions
    Audience is alright I guess, but seriously? 39%??

    The uneven ROTJ-like moodswing ending aside, that movie is certainly a match for ROTS by any reasonable standard.



    Were the critics too demanding?
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_room_1998/
    Dudebrah whaaaaaaaaaaaa-

    Granted, granted - whenever people hate something about the PT, they usually don't enjoy it in a "so bad it's good" way.
    However, last time I checked, bad movies were still rated bad, unless of course it's camp or farce which is a whole different story.

    As enjoyable as The Room is, and as interesting an insight into an eccentric's take on what a tragic romantic melodrama looks like - same rating as Matrix 3 for that slapped together hackjob??


    Maybe RT is just really lenient on "bad movies":
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/troll-2/?search=troll 2
    ...
    6% for Troll 2, though audience puts both on about 40.

    Surely, Troll 2, despite being the other osmotic "worst movie", is much better than The Room - comedy, frivolity and eccentricity are already common and appreciated in the genre, a great ham villlainness and some genuinely good, unsettling horror imagery on top.




    So yea... they seem to have "gotten it right" on SW as far as I can see, but a reliable site it is surely not.
    So how valuable is the argument that "PT got above average on aggregators", when they obviously can't be relied upon to be reasonable even with the most prolific items?
     
  2. DrDre

    DrDre Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2015
    These two articles by Michael Kaminski give a very good objective insight how the OT was critically recieved in it's time. There's also some comparison with the reception for the PT.

    http://fd.noneinc.com/secrethistory...ofstarwars.com/originaltrilogyreception1.html

    http://fd.noneinc.com/secrethistory...ofstarwars.com/originaltrilogyreception2.html

    After reviewing the initial critical recemption of all 6 films in terms of postive and negative reviews, he derived the following scores on a 100 point system:

    TPM: 52
    AOTC: 53
    ROTS: 68
    ANH: 82
    TESB: 73
    ROTJ: 64

    There are many other very interesting articles.
     
  3. SW Saga Fan

    SW Saga Fan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2015
  4. DrDre

    DrDre Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2015

    Interesting, because Michael Kaminski did a similar analysis, and got different results. Not sure about Mike Klimo, but Kaminski clearly explains how he got to his results. If Mike Klimo does as well, it would be instructive to see where the differences are coming from...
     
  5. DrDre

    DrDre Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2015
  6. -NaTaLie-

    -NaTaLie- Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2001
    I'd be careful with Kaminsky. He's been known to take quotes out of context or bend the truth.
     
  7. elfdart

    elfdart Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2001
    His fans are even worse on that score.
     
  8. WriterMan

    WriterMan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2012
    I'm fascinated by what people will think of the prequels (and KotCS) in 50-100 years. As these results show, clearly opinions towards movies change with the times. Rose-colored glasses, maybe, but audiences are fickle and some of the most beloved movies of all time (as we define it today) weren't that well received back in the day.
     
  9. -NaTaLie-

    -NaTaLie- Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2001
    They'll probably reboot them several times so no one will care about the old movies.
     
  10. grd4

    grd4 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2013
    Although I'm not generally a fan of Kaminski, my college-era scouring of contemporary reviews conformed to his analysis. (Particularly in respect to two observations: firstly, the original Star Wars is the only film of the series that was universally hailed as a great achievement; secondly, The Empire Strikes Back received a more tempered reaction than anyone today could comprehend.)

    My overall impressions:

    -Star Wars (universal acclaim)

    -The Empire Strikes Back/Revenge of the Sith (positive, with a minority evincing either enthusiasm or mild disapproval)

    -Return of the Jedi/Attack of the Clones (decidedly mixed, with a minority evincing enthusiasm)

    -The Phantom Menace (apprehensive, with many noting that the end product was unworthy of the hype)
     
  11. Colwyn Ren

    Colwyn Ren Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2015
    I'm assuming that they will all be rebooted.

    Wars is fixed in place at Number 13 on the AFI top 100 films of all time ( http://www.afi.com/100years/movies10.aspx ) so its place is set in stone and it will occasionally be trotted out and studied. My guess is that curiosity will keep its sequels, Empire and Jedi reasonably known and viewed as well. I don't think the PT will make any such lists and whether or not they are forgotten will depend entirely on how good the series reboot is.
     
    WriterMan likes this.
  12. WriterMan

    WriterMan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2012
    Oh, I don't mean that anyone will be saying that The Phantom Menace is one of the best films of all time in 100 years from now, but I think it may be regarded more positively, especially considering that some of the negativity (some, but admittedly not all) was based on expectations.


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