Thrawn didn't destroy Outbound Flight (Possible SQ Spoilers)

Allow a bold prediction:

Thrawn didn't destroy Outbound Flight as we've all been led to belive. In a year, you can all cheer my amazing Jedi abilities or write me off as someone without any midichlorians.

There is no dispute that Palpatine ordered Thrawn to destroy outbound flight. The key word is ORDERED. It doesn't mean Thrawn carried out the order. Now that's a flimsy assumption to base a theory on, but consider the following:

1. None of the characters have said, "I was there. I saw Thrawn destroy Outbound Flight."

<minor spoilers from Survivor's Quest>



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2. There were charrics in Outbound flight's wreckage. What were the Chiss doing aboard the dreadnaughts when Thrawn could've simply destroyed them? I suggest they were assisting in the destruction of the Vugaari.

3. Why would Thrawn leave survivors? He's far more thorough than that.

4. There are indications of a three-way battle in which Outbound Flight was destroyed. But it's the characters speculating that it's a three-way battle. It's just as reasonable that Thrawn used OB as an excuse to destroy the Vugaari. It would also keep with Chiss military doctorine. A rescue mission is allowed, I think.

5. Thrawn allowed Palpatine and the Chiss to belive he destroyed OB because it served his purposes. He didn't want to be a part of the 9 ruling families.

6. Parack (he was there presumably) didn't report Thrawn because he is loyal to Thrawn and not Palpatine.

7. Tim Zahn has gone out of his way to portray Thrawn and the Empire of the Hand as a different, but honorable society. Could such a society be founded by someone who killed a bunch of colonists in cold blood? It's out of character.

What do you think?

 

So what's your point? (spoiler tag needed?)

 

3. Why would Thrawn leave survivors? He's far more thorough than that.

Actually, there was a bit when they first got there about how Thrawn was efficient and would have destroyed the ship until it was worthless and not wasted more resources destroying something that was already doomed.

As for the rest of it, I'm gonna finish SQ first.

 

Why would Thrawn leave survivors? He's far more thorough than that.

Actually, there was a bit when they first got there about how Thrawn was efficient and would have destroyed the ship until it was worthless and not wasted more resources destroying something that was already doomed.

But some of the dreadnaughts were operational or could be fixed. That doesn't suggest that OB was destroyed to the point of worthlessness. Also, what would be the cost of some additional torps or turbolaser shots? Not that much to make sure that it was destroyed. Thrawn is too good to make a mistake like assuming OB was destroyed if it would be possible to fix parts of OB or to fix a dreadnaught and fly it away.

 

I will say that you make a good point. Though, if you think about it...if you saw a ship that size crash into something like that, and then be partially burried...he would probably think it had sustained enough damage to where everyone would have died.

Now, this is where interpretation comes into play...woudl Thrawn think it was completely destroyed? Remember, he was still very young at that point, and didn't have the experience he had when our Classic Trilogy heroes met up with him. Perhaps some of that knowledge he has post-ROTJ came from things he did pre-ROTJ.

Then again...he probably wouldn't know the ship survived, so there wouldn't be a lot to learn from it. I think I just dug myself in a hole with that one.

 

McEwok?

 

Matt: I have thoughts on this.

You may have guessed as much

All I can say is that, while I'm not entirely sure about "the Dark Side" as a terribly sophisticated or realistic way of thinking about the Force, I have no objections whatsoever to the term "Dark Jedi"...

In fact, it's a very useful term that's been rather underused of late. I'd say it might fit some people rather nicely...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

May I add to the confusion?

In SQ, the Vagaari succeed to get one of the damaged dreadnaughts 'spaceborne'. Why didn't the survivor's of SQ do so?

They had fifty years to fix it and want to continue their mission in SQ. Is that another charade?

Maybe they have joined the EotH years ago and the wreckage of the OFP was put where it was in SQ later?

 

I'll hold my judgement until the next book comes out.

 

6. Parack (he was there presumably) didn't report Thrawn because he is loyal to Thrawn and not Palpatine.


He wasn't. He found Thrawn long afterwards.

 

Given where it was found it is to my ming almost impossible that Thrawn would not have pounded the ship to scrap if that was his intent.

Since the Chiss are not an expansionary power, it seems unlikely that the planet would have been outside their borders when the incident happened. Does anyone really think thrawn would be anything less then absolute in destroying it if that was his intent and they'd already passed well into Chiss Space?

Also remember that Thrawn supposedly destroyed the Imperial task force sent out to destroy the Outbound flight project. Is it just me or does that seem increasingly unlikely, especially in conjunction with being tricked by the Emperor's propeganda guy that the project was a threat??

 

Well, they were in the middle of the Redoubt, and they didn't know the way out.

I guess I should maybe point out that the middle of the Redoubt is also probably the single most heavily defended place in the UR, if not the entire GFFA...

Perhaps Thrawn was doing them a favour...?

- The Imperial Ewok

 

How did they get in there though?

The only two possible choices really are that a chiss led them or the Jedi used the force. I'd lean toward the latter. But the other side of that is how could Thrawn fail to stop them before they got to the Redoubt?

Furthermore, how could non-chiss forces have shot them down in the redoubt?

Also I do not think it likely Thrawn would have passed up a chance to send people down to the wreck to gleen whatever information he could.

As I see it, the only way this works is if the battle took place outside the Redoubt, and the OFP tried to escape into the redoubt, but for whatever reason was unable too and crashed.

Obviously the Chiss aren't what they were escaping from(logically if they were the chiss could have followed them and ransacked the wreckage). Considering the chiss weapons on the bridge, I'd say that despite previous claims thrawn attempted to open discussion with the OR, only to be attacked by a third force. Thrawns fleet counter attacks while the Flight project tries to escape but crash lands unseen by Thrawn.

I am still at a loss as to how the Emperor's task force fits into this, although most amusing to me would be Thrawn destroying it and trying to return the prisoners to the Outbound Flight project.

 

No, no, no, please not.

The attemps of turning Thrawn from a villain into a (although obscenely pragmatic) good guy was worse enough in HoT.

More about him only inflates the character.

 

FTeik: Thrawn wasn't a 'villain' or a 'good guy' - he was a human being...

As to Outbound Flight, it seems pretty obvious that Thrawn and whoever was with him knew all about it all along, and just let it get along quietly inside the Redoubt for fifty years, until it made sense to use it against the Vagaari...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

he was a human being...

Uh, no, he was a Chiss.

 

alright...

so, he was near-human, descended from humans, mostly-human.

 

so, he was near-human, descended from humans, mostly-human

Uh no, completely 100% Chiss.

Where did you get the idea he was anything like a human?

 

perhaps he left survivors because his mission objective didn't say to totally annihilate the Outbound Flight, but rather eradicate the Jedi onboard and prevent any word from getting out about it. having them stranded in the Redoubt with no jedi seems to qualify as meeting the goal.

quite possibly Thrawn might also have not had enough time to finish the job, such as in a three-way battle scenario that was mentioned.. he had to concentrate his forces on the third party or on escaping and managed to do the minimum to make sure that the OF wouldn't be going anywhere... quite possibly after it crashed, Thrawn moved the planetoid into the Redoubt to keep them hidden...

 

Moving a planetoid into the redoubt would be quite spectacular indeed, even for Thrawn.

I will point out that that Thrawn was never evil nor good so much as he was amoral. Not a philosophy of might=right but instead ends justify the means.

Also, I will not grant him god like powers to have planned out his entire career in the Empire from the first meetings with humans, therefore whatever he did I think must be viewd through his chief end of the time, which would have been the strengthening and protection of the Chiss.

As such, leaving the remnants of aliens who he'd attacked in the most secure of chiss areas would fail on several areas, especially considering his apparent failure to gather information from the wreckage.

 

perhaps it was not the secret fortress of the Chiss at that time... but rather sometime later the Chiss officially discovered it and decided it would make for a great helm's deep.

 

I would say that Thrawn intercepted the attack by the Vugaari on OB and the OB responded by using Jedi to go in the redoubt. A jedi loses his concentration or even miscalculates and sends OB out of hyperspace prematurely. This leads to catastrophic damage to the dreadnaughts. That is why Thrawn didn't know where to find the wreckage.

This does not explain why there were charrics in the wreckage. Although, if Thrawn was working at cross purposes to the nine families, there could have been chiss advisors on board OB, and thus charrics are there to be found.

 

It could have been a band of Chiss mercenaries the OFP got to guide them through the UR.