TPM Chapter 41: Qui-Gon vs. Darth Maul DISCUSSION

Until the release of ROTS on 5/19/05, I would like to discuss TPM chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 47 chapters to discuss over the next eight months, excluding Chapter 1: Opening Logos, Chapter 2: The Phantom Menace and Chapter 50: End Credits.

Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.

Chapter 41: Qui-Gon vs. Darth Maul
DISCUSSION: March 7, 2005 - March 11, 2005
DVD TIME INDEX: 119:05 - 120:22

Synopsis:
Maul continues to pace before his adversary. Qui-Gon continues to mediate as Obi-Wan ignites his lightsaber as the plasma gates disappear. Jinn finishes his mediation, ignites his laser sword and fights Darth Maul once again. The duel continues. Obi-Wan runs trying to reach the generator room, but is stopped by the reappearance of the gates. Kenobi can only watch helplessly as the duel become one on one. Maul and Jinn's blades clash with every swing. Qui-Gon exchanges a look at the Sith, who stops fighting for a brief second. Their blades clash one more time. Maul hits Jinn with his handle in the chin and stabs his in the stomach. Jinn falls to the ground as Obi-Wan screams full of sadness and anger. Maul turns to Kenobi ready to fight. Back on the plains of battle, the Gungans surrender to the battle droids. Jar Jar willingly surrenders. Captain Tarpals shakes his head. END OF CHAPTER

Opinion:
Back to the duel we are and for the first time in this two on one fight, we see how each of the Jedi fare against Sidious' apprentice. A nice parallel to the end of the A New Hope duel, but lacks the heart.

When Obi-Wan was bladed by Vader in ANH, I felt something. It was a sad moment for the movie. This time around it's Qui-Gon getting the best of Maul and I just didn't feel it. Don't get me wrong, I like the chapter, but Obi-Wan's fight meant more both in this film and in ANH. I love Jinn's hesitation right before he gets bladed by the Sith Lord.

And the plasma gates, even though they are symbolic in a way are just a way to make two separate duels. Also Obi-Wan's "No..." didn't have the same effect on me as Luke's "No.....," when Obi-Wan goes down. It's a decent parallel to the original film, but weak in comparison. The small snippet on the battle plains isn't that bad. It does it's purpose and has the Gungans surrender.

It's good for the film, but not up against the original. Not as flashy as the start of the duel or in the generator complex, but gives Master Qui-Gon a somewhat noble end to say the least. Good chapter.

 

My two cents:

I don't really compare the two duels, they are two different confrontations.

The Qui Gon/Maul duel is a fight to the death between two combatants with no history, only a cold connection through opposite sides of the force. They are professionals doing their job. Obi versus Vader was a confrontation between two old/former friends. Much history and hatred there.

Obi's death was two things:

A. His own choosing, who knows what would have happened had he kept fighting? But by sacrificing himself he could go where Vader could not reach, nor stop him.

B. An end to a relationship that spans 3 films and countless years (Obi and Anakin).

So for those two reasons, I can see how it has a bit more emotional oomph for some. Myself, I find the death of Qui Gon to be as emotionally impactful as Obi's death, maybe more so because it wasn't his choosing to die. He lost the fight, and that is a worse pill to swallow. And I don't know why one would compare Obi and Luke's "noooooo", I mean, same line of dialogue, two different people.

Still, the scene is a fantastic piece of the best duel in the SW film set (so far).

 

AS a lord of the sith i belive it was a great beginnig the the jedi and its council being wiped out and but as you see in the last films the sith and vader lacked compasion for the total abliteration of the jedi.

 

I always found Qui-Gon's death had an impact, but in a different way to Obi-Wan's. Qui-Gon has really been the father-figure for the whole movie - he's probably the protagonist, although this episode doesn't have a clear central character like some of the others - so that in itself is shocking. But also the manner of the death - after all the noise and loud music of Duel of the Fates, suddenly things become very quiet during this duel - you know it's not going to turn out well. Also, Maul's reaction when Qui-Gon dies is great - he just withdraws his saber, turns around, and gets ready for Obi-Wan to come through, without even a glance backwards. Efficient, ruthless, and just plain evil. Great work by Ray Park there.

 

I don't think it's fair at all to judge this scene by it's similar counterpart in ANH, just my opinion.

Great scenes, loved Jar Jars instant "my give up, myyyyyyy give up"

- O_F

 

The hesitation in the battle is interesting. I have to wonder whether Qui Gon discovered the force was not with him to continue battling at this point, and unlike Obi Wan he refused to give up, fighting with his own will to save his life. The point was made that he had the force with him to fight well enough to become separated from Obi Wan, so why the sudden collapse?

 

I thought that fight seen was incredibly emotional. Qui-Gon was the central character in the movie (we spent an awful lot of time with him on Tatooine), was like a father to Anakin, and just so wise and good. I found Obi-Wan's scream of Nooooo, to be good as well... I mean it was obvious he and Qui-Gon had grown close over their years of working together. But my favorite part is the look on his face when his eyes turn from Qui-Gon to Maul... he's pissed, his mouth twitches some. That's some mighty fine acting there.

 

I really like this chapter. One of my favorites. Though I already knew he was going to die in Episode I, his death was still kinda dramatic and sudden.

I love the shot of Obi-Wan putting his game face on after yelling.

The music was pretty good too. Really creepy if you ask me.

 

Although I knew ahead of time that Qui-Gon was going to die at the end of this film, upon my first viewing, his death scene was realized in what was, for me, a fairly potent emotional climax. Liam Neeson brought a tender, understated compassion to his portrayal of the Jedi, and our emotional investment in the character is tested in his final moments. The corresponding scene in "A New Hope" was more mystical and poetic in nature, containing indelible imagery and dialogue, and so not surprisingly, this sequence in "The Phantom Menace" does not outdo it. That said, I don't think that it was meant to. The events which occur in "Menace" are deliberately antithetical to the wonder of the OT, and such fantastical ideas of "joining the force" have become de-mystified by the commonplace reality of the Jedi and their ways - we're in a different era. These issues, which deepen somewhat in "Attack of the Clones", are not given full form and complexity until we are able to consider the saga in its entirety, and observe the development of a thematic arc. In other words, if you start with a wondrous idea presented in a mystical fashion, and then end with that conceit manifested in precisely the same manner, there isn't any sense of contrast; therefore, the interest is siphoned from the progressive nature of the films' ideas.

Anyways, back to the matter at hand: As moving as I consider this chapter to be, I think that it is edited to a point at which the "cutting" becomes a distraction. The point of cutting away so frequently to the physically removed Obi-Wan is to: a)remind us of his presence as a closed-off observer; b)set up his reaction to Qui-Gon's death, and subsequent "rage"; and c)create a sense of rhythmic unease in the mind of the viewer, so that it appears as though matters are tenuous. All of this is fine, but I tend to think that we recieve too many edits which undermine some of the more basic issues at play within the scene. Other than that, I have no quibbles.

 

Because I knew Qui-Gon was going to die, it was not as emotional as Obi-Wan's death in ANH, but still is a sad moment.

 

moleman - i do disagree with you this time. obi wan's frustration at not being able to aid his master and his anguish scream of "no" is as emotional to me as ANH. but i do agree with previous post that i choose not to compare as to which is "better" because it's not a contest and never will be.
this is the false victory by the dark side - premature celebration will get ya everytime.

PS to all: just flew back from LA - saw jay leno show and hung around to get a pix and hug from ewan! he just couldn't have been more generous or nice. and whatever your opinion is of him - the photos and movies do not do him justice. just gorgeous - when his handler came to rescue him back to his limo, he kept the window down and kept waving to our crazy, geeked to the max horde of groupies. i had an obiwan shirt on and told him he was the chosen one's hero.

 

What, what, wha... lovelucas, you can't disagree with me. I did feel Obi-Wan's helplessness in this scene. But I just can't find any other alternative than to compare. Did anyone get a sense of sacrifice from Qui-Gon even though it wasn't directly like Obi-Wan's sacrifice in ANH?

 

I knew that Qui-Gon was going to die. But still I felt for him becuase a long with Obi-wan and Anakin. He was like a father to both of them.

 

Thank you for all your participation in CBC (Chapter by Chapter). TPM Chapter 42: Capturing the Viceroy DISCUSSION will be made available 7:30 PM EST. Although the discussion timeframe has passed, you may still discuss this chapter at your convienience. However, we will be moving on to the next chapter.

-Moleman1138

 

dear moleman -
yes - i do feel that qui gon, much like the elder ben kenobi, knows where this will end and what has to be done and he is the sacrifice

 

The actual death of Q-G didn't have as much impact
as it could have because Liam's performance made
me think he was dead long before that.

Just kidding. Sorta I think Obi-Wan's 'Noooooo!'
here was great. I felt it, and the look on Ewan and
Ray's faces were great. In all fairness to Liam, the
look he gives Maul toward the end, that 'I know I can't
beat this guy hurry up and open you darned energy
gates!' was good.

In the end, I wish that Maul and Qui-Gon had had a
more adversarial relationship. This has to be the
first Lightsaber duel in which the combatants
really didn't have any real personal history (Save
for a brief 'How ya doin'' on Tatooine). Also, the
effect of splitting Q-G and O-W up for so long, not
giving them more time to build an on screen
relationship, may have weakend the overall drama
here a bit. (By split up I mean on tatooine, not
by the energy gates)

Overall a good scene. The Lightsaber stuff is the
best in the movie, IMVHO.

 

this was my favirote part of the dule

 

I really like this fight.

Especially the way Maul stabs him backwards and then walks away without looking back.

'stabbing' with a lightsabre was a nice change too.

 

This was my favorite part of TPM and because of "Duel of the Fates", it is one of my favorite parts of the saga. I have to believe that something will happen in ROTS that will explain the look that Qui-Gon gave Maul. And as an aside, I think it will explain a lot of funny looks so far in the PT (Mace upon meeting Anakin, Mace and Yoda's countless looks at one another, shocked Dooku look).

When I saw Qui-Gon burning thru that blast door at the beginning of TPM, I knew this was a bad dude. To see said dude run through with a lightsabre and no doubt killed while not as emotional as Obi-Won's death, was rather moving. There's an electricity and a newness about that entire duel that I still get even on my 45th or 50th viewing.

 

Duel of the Fates and this whole scene was the redeeming part of this movie. Granted TPM is better than AOTC but some parts are pretty silly. This is my favorite chapter of the movie. It is about time we had a really good lightsaber battle. And combine that with Duel of the Fates and you have what is a winning combination.
Jar Jar's giving up is hilarious too. That always makes me laugh. It is even morefunny when Tarpals just shakes his head. I love that reaction.

 

my dad pointed out a valid point. that if qui-gon was such a good swordsman how did he not see the saberhilt coming at his face.

 

what are these chapter things?

 

It's a great duel and I was pretty emotional when Qui-Gon dies. The music and DarthMaul are the star of this scene.

Jar Jar's giving up was also very funny, "my give up!" haha, the scene is very memorable.

 

CBC every 5 days we discuss a new chapter. On TPM,AOTC, abs CT forums