Two Darth Traya's? (KotoR 2 Spoilers)

Very early in development, there was the possibility that either Kreia or Atris was Darth Traya depending on how you played the game. The idea was scrapped, though remnants of that idea remain in the form of a "Wicked Witch" model of Atris.

It's pretty clear in the game who is Darth Traya. Atris it is not.

The strategy guides are notoriously wrong. Wastes of money.

 

This little bit has always been confusing to me. It seems that Kreia took up the mantle of "Darth Traya" when she left the Jedi and started her Sith Order, gave it up after the sith cast her out, and took it up again at the end. Her motives near the end of the game confuse me. Consider the "Canon" light side direction of the story, and how things can end up.

Because the Exile is light sided, Kreia must know that the Exile will spare Atris and allow her to try to redeem herself. Atris will live.

When the Exile shows up, Kreia's intent appears to be having them both die in the Trayus Core. Apparently this will rip a wound in the force and bad things will happen....Atris is probably irrelevent. The other option is that the Exile kills Kreia, leaving a Jedi Knight still alive as well as another Darth Traya....

It would appear to me that for a moment in time that there were two Darth Traya's, and with that knowledge we must assume that Kreia prefers the death of the force, but also prefers to live a Sith Legacy instead of a Jedi Legacy if she does fail. Grey Jedi...Blah. She's All Sith.

Carnage

 

I really like this. It's absolutely perfect for Verg^H^H^H^HKreia... to be pretending, stealing Atris's title...

I don't normally give out these things these days - but have a KotOR-Era Golden Ewok?!!!

- The Imperial Ewok

 

There a lot of things about KOTOR 2 that would've made it far more compelling that were cut. In any event, I think the way the game plays itself out, Atris was well on her way to the darkside, though the mysteries of the Sith allude her, despite the collection of holocrons. When Kreia visits Atris, it is clear that Kreia is more masterful and more manipulative, though Atris may be the stronger force-user. Perhaps Atris may have become apprenticed to Kreia and between the 2 they could deceive the galaxy as to who was "Traya".

But alas, those avenues close...I pray KOTOR 4 is more patiently constructed after KOTOR 3...as superior a game as KOTOR 2 is to KOTOR 1, it's failure is in the seemingly endless avenues of plot that are cutoff.

Every time I play it, I imagine the 50 hours I could've spent going down this path or another...

*sigh*

 

What I took away from Atris as a character was someone so warped in devotion to the Jedi as an institution, she had forgotten the values they held. She was so dedicated to "protecting" the Jedi legacy that she utilized the dark arts to do so. And since the Sith were the primary threat to her mission, she studied every bit of knowledge she could on their ways and means.

Did this make her a Sith? No
Did this make her fall to the darkside? Was headed that way.
Did this make her susceptible to influence by manipulative powers? most definitely

Her vast knowledge of the Sith from the Holocrons was simply that, knowledge.

"I should think you Jedi would have more respect for the difference between knowledge and wisdom."

Now, with this knowledge in hand and a master to mold that knowledge into skillful use, Atris could've been a wicked cool Dark Jedi and perhaps a Sith. But having a tome of Sith vocab in your head doesn't grant you status in the ways of the Darths.

 

Um, if the Force Bond is severed when one of the two falls to the Darkside and Kreia was always Darth Treya... how exactly did that work again?

 

I apologize for going off topic, but considering Revan has this holocron he created, when exactly did he create it? During his reign as the Sith Lord?

 

I'm pretty sure the part about bonds being severed upon falling to the darkside was only mentioned by Master Vash- in a conversation that was cut from the game. Maybe they didn't take that particular part out because of time limitations, but because it would have screwed up their plot.

 

the dark side is dark acts.. dark intentions. when kreia was eating, sleeping she was not dark always. just in certain moments when acting and thinking dark. the bond works in those moments. and she was sleeping and sitting around alot in the game^^

 

Whenever you speak to the Jedi Masters, all of them are surprised at the idea of a Force Bond so strong it links the lives of the two users. I think it's far more likely that that aspect of the bond was a fabrication by Kreia to keep a measure of control on the Exile.

 

It was a pretty dark act when she killed the Jedi Masters on Dantooine. And how about earlier in the game- was her cruel manipulation of Atton not an example of her 'acting and thinking dark'? How about when she knocks out Bao-Dur? And when she tells Hanharr to go after Mira, was that not an evil act? And yet her bond with the exile is not affected at any of these points.

Anyway, as I said, the stuff about the darkside severing Force bonds was in a cut conversation with Master Vash, and therefore is not 'canon' anyway.

 

Kreia's redemtion was possible, and an entire ending was acted that had Atris speaking the words that Kreia Speaks. Traya was always the final villian. Just that who traya was could change. The fate of Kreia is of course a little fuzzy. Though logically she probably would have not survived dantoonie and Bao Dur did not survive M23385 and Atton does not survive malachor. At least if your light side. The casualty count of the darkside is different, with diciple, and a few others taking the place on the block.

 

It really is farcical how much was cut, isn't it? It's like talking about a whole different game.

 

I am not so sure that her killing the Jedi Masters on Dantooine was such a Hienous act. I mean....those guys were pretty messed up themselves. I do not think that stripping an ally of the force is a very Jedi like thing to do. They decided on that course of action solely out of fear... a kneejerk reaction.

Carnage

 

I actually get physically sick thinking about what it could have been.

The melancholy of Attons forever bound force ghost being the only thing that can accomplany in your bleak crusade, following his cruel and vindictive torturing to death and mutilation by sion..... The whole, Kreia disects your followers bit... sigh....

 

Re: Force Bonds and the Dark Side

Maybe the simple Master-Apprentice bonds that every Jedi is familiar with are severed by one of them falling to the DS, but I think that Kreia's and Exile's Force Bond is significantly stronger than that. It's got Exile's uber-bonding plus a Master-Apprentice aspect.

And let's not forget that occasionally the Dark Side can improve a bond, Like when Cade dips into the DS to heal Wolf.

Re: Traya's intentions

If, as Sinrebirth postulated, Kreia, like her former Padawan Revan, is truly fearful of the True Sith's arrival, perhaps her attempts at Forceicide are more than just the combination of her instability with her devotion to testing Exile. Perhaps, since we aren't quite sure how this 'massive Force-wound' business would work, perhaps her intention is that, following her former fellow Siths' mass Jedicide, she realizes that there are too few Force-users around to adequately defend the fragile civilization she holds dear against this threat. Enter the Force wound. All of a sudden, a massive invasion of Force-sensitives is stripped of its main advantage, and given that they've probably been using the Force since birth, they might as well be blind and deaf without it. Now the battered Old Republic can quell such a force without suffering excessive casualties.

 

Already you presume much. (c) Kreia

 

by the time of Malachor V, I thought Kreia considered herslef neither Sith nor Jedi, so Darth Traya was a title up for grabs, and could be applied to atris if canon choses

 

My fault, I missed that part. Sorry

I still think Kreia was dark from the moment we meet her. I'm certain Zez-Kai-Ell has it wrong. Look at the events of the first game- Revan and Bastila also had a strong Force bond, strong enough for her to share his dreams. And yet when she falls to the darkside, the bond remains intact.

 

Not... so much.

She REPRESENTS as "neutral," but is in fact evil the whole time. To maintain the surprise of her being the Sith Lord, much like the Revan-reveal in the first game. She was always Darth Traya...