Lit Tython vs. Ach-to: Which is earlier in the Timeline?

I recently had this argument with other fans on a multitude of platforms online, so lets poll and debate with facts and proof to figure out the best solution!

Both, Ach-to and Tython are canon to Disney's SW. And within it, the narrative of the "first Jedi Temple" and "the Prime Jedi" suggests that Ach-to happened before Tython.

In Legends we had Tython as the Jedi origin with the Je'daii formed from a multitude of collected species and local Force Cults. Ach-to likely exists in Legends as the TOR MMO had a sneaky reference to it in some of its later installments.

OneCanon attempts by @Sinrebirth and other fans need the best of both worlds and while he places it after Tython, I disagree and would place it way before Tython and the Rakata.


With regards to figure out a setting for Ach-to, we have to think about what role it plays and how many stories may be connected to it. F.e. do you want it to be the verbatim "first" Jedi Temple? Does that mean Je'daii are not Jedi to you or would you conflate them and that significantly influences your placement of Ach-to before or after Tython? Do you prefer canon and Legends separate and thus discard arguments for one or the other?

So lets look at arguments first separated by each continuity before throwing them together for a best of both worlds:

Canon:
-TLJ literally says "first" and "prime" which implies set before Tython and other Jedi sites if literally
-Jedi of the High Republic Era knew Tython and visited it, but did not know Ach-to, implying Tython is a later Jedi site or "origin" with the true past like Ach-to forgotten to time and myth.
-Ach-to is deep in the Unknown Regions that are cut off/hard to navigate thx to a barrier and distorted space making hypertravel more complicated. Reaching from Tython to Ach-to would be way harder than the other way around. Other ancient Jedi sites that are in the vincinity yet set after both are Jedha, Baatu and Ilum. So either we have an entire list of Jedi worlds that predate Ach-to (Tython to Jedha/Baatu before heading to Ach-to) or Ach-to predated Tython and Jedha and Baatu might be maybe older or as old as Tython.
-The Unknown Regions are prominent in ST storytelling and serve kinda a place of "here be dragons" and myth, a long forgotten past the galaxy is rediscovering. Ach-to is connected via the Vergence Scatter / World between Worlds / Hypertravelmap from the Visual Dictionary to Ixigul aka later Exegol near Ilum. Thus placing this ancient past in the UR would make sense, with Ach-to spreading outward till reaching Exegol and Ilum, maybe even to Baatu and Jedha before somehow ending up on Tython and the other side of the galaxy. Likewise canons Unknown Regions navigation problems and barrier may stem from this ancient Forceusers and their wars.
-Lego Freemakers which has added to canon aside the Lego looks, added the Force Builders and Kybersaber which are not tied to Ach-to directly. But the history of the Lightsaber evolution and chronology suggests it may be tied to the Prime Jedi's saber depicted in the mural. Also if such a Kybersaberblast can shatter a moon, that'd explain how Ach-to got flooded to leave only mountaintop islands atop the ocean.

-How does Ach-to relate to the Ones, Mortis, the Force World, Force Priestess, Lothal, Bendu etc.? Would it predate them as well or does "prime" only refer to mortals/humanoid Jedi and those are set even before Ach-to?
-Did the Father "like a god" give the Prime Jedi knowledge about the Force (kinda Moses ten commandmends scenario) on a mountaintop? Thus Ach-to is prime for Jedi, not for Force discovery and use amongst other species and entities.
-Did the Prime Jedi after teaching the Force to students ascend to a new plane and become the Father with his children? Thus, is Ach-to their origin story and hence the first discovery of the Force ever? This might tie Ach-to's backstory to the unused so far backstory of the first Forcediscovery Lucas created in his older script versions with "The Skywalker" discovering the Force and teaching it to his pupils, etc.
-The first sinfall to the dark side, did it happen on Ach-to when a student accessed the mirror cave through a hole like Rey? Or was it the Prime Jedi himself and not a student? Thus did the Dark Side spread from Ach-to too, or did it happen offworld on Ixigul before it became Exegol and initiated a Forceuser War across the Unknown Regions?
-The Ones of Mortis are implied to originate from Lothal before going to Mortis and the Force-World when the Ones and Priestess went separate ways. (as depicted in a Rebels artpiece in the episodes with the Lothal dig). Lothal being far from Ach-to may imply they either predate Ach-to, or if not, are a later addition to the godlike Force avatars they became, ascended rather than always such entities. Which begs the question who held these positions before them? Prime Jedi perhaps?
-If JEDI is synonymous with Forceuser (as it is for some who call Darksiders Dark Jedi), then the first Jedi/Temple may be the first Forceuser and not just the first of the Jedi Order.
-...

Legends:
-The Lightsaber was developed/reverse engineered on Tython from Rakatan Forcesabers and the Prime Jedi mural depicts him with a Lightsaber, thus Ach-to and him might be set after Tython
-Unless the depicted blade is not a Forcesaber or Lightsaber but a Kybersaber or Force-imbued metal blade with Kyber attached (also in TOR MMO as past relics) and likewise weapons which might predate Tython
-Tython is where big time cultural exchange happened and an order was born, Ach-to feels more personal, Force discovery and not like a big order, thus implies a storytelling setting it before the big scope that is Tython.
-Tython's first Je'daii acknowledge Gree, Kwa and other Forceusing races like Rakata long before them and do not claim to be the first discovery of the Force, as each collected culture already knew it and just brought their knowledge together there. Thus Tython is built as "not prime" from the get go, whereas Ach-to is built as the contrary and placing it after Tython would be a step backwards or lessen it.
-Lehon's closeness to Ach-to suggests that whoever discovered the Force on Ach-to might have reached Lehon and other worlds somehow (projection?) and taught them. Tython as a reaction to Rakatan expansion rather is later.
-The Book of Sith has the Son and Daughter of Mortis appear as twin gods to several cultures in the sky like a Forceprojection and teach them about the Force, much like Luke projecting from Ach-to to Crait in TLJ, the first Jedi might have influenced other worlds likewise long before visiting them. Thus Mortis, Lothal or Ach-to or whereever the Ones were originally before going into hiding on Mortis, seeded the galaxy with Forcelore and emerging Forceuser Cultures that Tho Yor later collected for Tython.

-Force Encounters: storytelling even if not verbatim spelled out always has a logical progression that may be relevant to placing Ach-to in relation to Tython: the Prime Jedi used the meditation stone outcropping to see far away places through the Force. First they watch, then they learn they can also appear as an apparition, then they can as such, talk to the worlds they watch and influence their evolution thus and teach them. Some rever them as gods possibly. Other Forcecults spring up due to their influence. As Rey teleported raindrops to Kylo in TLJ and a lightsaber in TROS, the prime Jedi might have learned to teleport stuff to other worlds or even themselves? Reaching other worlds in an age free of technology and spaceships. The idea of a World between Worlds, the Force, was born and expanded to be a pathway to other worlds long before technology replicated it with Hypergates long before ships and hyperdrives would take over. Thus, the first connecting of the galaxy through Forceusers, then Force Astrogators, until their importance vaned with tech taking over duties they held before, has a logical chronological progression.
So what if these first Forceusers, Prime Jedi, ascended one day to become the Celestials or Ones? Tython remains the beginning of the Jedi Order thx to the Je'daii, but Ach-to is the beginning of Forceuse for all species and cults, an ancient myth before the history that began with Tython. A saga of light and dark before there were Jedi and Sith. Or rather with Jedi and Sith but disconnected from the post Tython incarnation for they had risen and fallen and Tython was the focal point that rebirthed it all.

-The Old Tongue, aka ur-kittat as per TROS Visdic, is a Basic/Aurebesh precurser found in Forceuser temples regardless if light or dark affiliation. It's galaxywide use predates the Jedi/Sith shisms and suggests it once was a general uniting language that inspired and involved into several later languages and alphabets/scripts. Even the Zeffo used it as a secondary script in their own temples and Tython's seeing stone also uses it as do several other Jedi and Sith temples throughout canon and Legends. Linguistic history thus suggests an once galaxy uniting Forceusing culture whose script influenced galactic linguistics significantly and can be found on lots of ancient architecture all over. Now, how can such an influential script reach that many places and unite the galaxy?
Tython united many places and cultures amongst them even the Sith species of Korriban. Was it their ur-kittat that overtook other writing systems before making way for Rakatan Aurebesh? No, as Rakatan Aurebesh is rooted in ur-kittat old tongue as well as fan Aurekfonts proved nicely on his twitter account! Thus whoever spread or used the old tongue needs to linguistically predate the Rakatan use of Aurebesh. So who spread the Old Tongue and did the later Sith species keep it as theirs only whereas others did not, or does their species have a much longer and more influential history than previously thought?
-...

OneCanon:
-The story of Ach-to and a Prime Jedi does not sound like it refers to an entire order of Je'daii settling there, more like a biblical Moses type that found enlightment and the Force and taught it to others afterwards
-If Je'daii is not Jedi, then post Tython Ach-to simply rebirthed a Jedi Order, but most Je'daii need to be lost or dead for that to work. Another TFN topic already showed the Tython Je'daii went to Ossus afterwards even before being brought from Ossus to Coruscant for the young Republic found them on Ossus, not Tython, nor elsewhere apparently! So how to squeeze Ach-to in between Tython and Ossus? That'd not only make Ach-to less than prime but also rather only one of several destinations the Je'daii went to, severely lessening its importance aside loosing the prime status.
-The UR barrier up and tight in this timeframe before it got more and more permeable in the future eras would work against anybody going from Tython to Ach-to and back from Ach-to to the rest of the galaxy. Ach-to set before the barrier was up or needed makes most sense to me. And with it up, half the galaxy and its history that is crucial for the rest of the galaxy are thus hidden and forgotten as an age of mythology with history only beginning afterwards. (Kinda nicely mirrors some real world esoterics that Lucas often referneced in his works, like the ancient "true" history that is forgotten or only remembered as myths and gods where it was mortals and flesh and blood living it once before recorded history).
-...


I could present a lot more, and will given time, but for now I hope this mad poorly sorted mess of my thoughts helps you with my reasoning. I am looking forward to your opinions and votes!

PS: A more refined version of my ancient history will be released once finishing touches are done and maybe some of you got more points I can include before releasing it. Thx

 

Yeah it was definitely Ach-To. I am sure there were force sensitive groups before that but that would have likely been the first location that they attempted to establish an official Order.

I would be extremely surprised if the Disney Plus shows don't get into that time period eventually.

 

I always thought Anch-to was earlier, but i love this third idea you came up with.

 

Ach-to - Jedha - Tython - Ossus would be a nice linear approach. But you propose it being a back and forth? Does not compute to me.

When then would you connect Ach-to to Ixigul? Or its WBW use to reach it according to TROS visdic. This super-forceuse seems more fitting in Mortis-esque ancient times pre-tython rather then post Tython where no built in "how did they loose access" story exists. Before you got several breaking points like Celestials, Rakata, etc. giving enough reasoning.

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Ache Toe was farcical, silly architecture for Jedi and just to watch Luke pole fish and milk the Loch Ness monster. Jedha was like a re-imagined Tatooine, and canon's Tython was a dud, was basically a telephone booth on a hill.

 

Silly architecture for a Jedi? You do realize that the sets they built for the movie were just like the ones on the actual island where real life monks lived at one time right?

It was a near perfect setting to depict where the Jedi Order would have originated.

 

I am not a big fan of TLJ, but honestly I loved Ach-to and everything about the temple there, and would love to explore it in some open world game.

Now, as a historian, I imagine the answer could be debatable in universe as well, probably depending on how one defines jedi and what one considers to be their true origin as oppose to one of their predecessor groups.

Especially since in Legends, if I recall correctly, the jedi order was made out of the amalgamation of various older groups such as the Dai Bendu,Followers of Palwa, and Chatos Academy. As such, the jedi's multiple homeworlds could come from these different groups having their own home worlds.

But having to go with pure movie and show stuff alone for canon, then I think Ach-to is supposed to be first, and while Tython is clearly ancient and important it isn't first anymore.

 

The way I see it is there were probably sects of force users prior to Ach-To but Ach-To would have been the first temple built when they were attempting to establish an Order on a more Galactic scale. I imagine we will find out that the Jedi Order was established when space travel became more commonplace.

 

The Jedi Order in canon is still 25 000 years old if not older. So I assime their temple would be pretty old like Stone age old in Star Wars and Ach-To is that. We havent seen Tythons temple yet but I think that came after. Space travel in older times might have been done with space whales and jedi connecting with them Like Ezra did in Rebels finale. The old Republic is 25 000 years old i think still in canon.

 

I care mostly about "feel" and "backstory" stuff, and I could sort of see it going either way.
Honestly, using one of the most important sites of Irish Catholicism as the fictional first Jedi Temple was kind of ludicrous and terrible (religious aspects aside, it's like using an unredressed Stonehenge to portray a fictional alien monument; more people around the world probably now know Ach-To than they do Skellig Michael or the importance of Irish monasticism), but now that that's canon then it's somewhat incumbent to do something with that makes sense and has some of the dignity of the historical site. Making Ach-To, like the actual site, a retreat where a small group of Force-users (monks) exiled themselves deliberately, leaving behind technology, family, broader society, etc, in order to commune more deeply with the Force (God), ultimately producing a way of life and set of beliefs and practices and culture that would go back and have a big impact on the wider Galaxy (Ireland/Europe) seems like the best way to do that.

The Legends stuff with the Je'daii and Tython was just impossibly silly to me, but that probably makes it better as the "older" pre-Jedi tradition. The Je'daii are pretty much an artificially put-together mess from any standpoint. Some of the retreatants who went to Ach-To could have been from them or had contact with them, though; and the failure of the Tython project could even have pushed some people towards the more low-tech monastic-style refounding at Ach-To. This could have taken place either after or even before or during the Force Wars (perhaps the Prime Jedi and his followers came to Tython from elsewhere to end the war and/or recruit the remaining Lightsiders to the Jedi Order; or perhaps some of them were from Tython but left to commune with the Force more deeply and came back with the "new" teachings of the Jedi; et cetera).

Jedha seems easier to place regardless of what you do; there's a very straightforward (real-world) dialectic between Ach-To as the monastic retreat and Jedha as the Jerusalem/Mecca center of religious belief and large-scale pilgrimage and monumental architecture. Some of the retreatants could have started their journey on Jedha, or the Ach-to people could have found Jedha and turned it into a popular pilgrimage site; but the two aren't mutually exclusive, and the two would almost work best as simultaneous phenomena in the same way as real world monastic vs pilgrimage sites.

The real question that hasn't quite been answered, but which Jedha very much poses, is to what degree the Jedi emerge out of pre-existing more "popular" and less exclusive religious structures. Did the Jedi create the Church of the Force, in other words, or did the Church of the Force create the Jedi?

 

"Ahch-To".

And it's clearly earlier than Tython in canon. It doesn't exist in Legends.

 

The mural on Ach-To resembles the Mural on Mortis where Anakin uses the force to subdue two mortis gods. Light and dark. The jedi of old might be considered wizards. Before they get lightsabers, they act as wizards like in athurian legends of Merlin and such.

 

TROS Visdic depicts on ancient Jedi Texts a map of planet dots connected by a web called "hyperspatial waypoints to Exegol" that connect Ach-to and Exegol amongst other worlds. The same map is used in another Jedi text page to depict the WBW, Vergence Scatter, Chain Worlds Theorem.

Hence, the WBW connects Ach-to and Exegol and ancient Jedi knew it or maybe used it.






This implies Exegol and Ach-to are age-wise from the same era maybe and earliest explorations connected them and other UR worlds which may even reach to and include Baatu, Jedha, Jakku, Lehon and others in between and around.


As for the 10000 years of Tython Je'daii. That is no problem for I place Ach-to not only before Tython but way before these 10.000 years, before the Rakata, before even Kwa or Gree actually, if it is not just first Jedi prime but first discovery of the Force before it was spread to all those mentioned and other species! Jedi here synonymous to Forcewielder/Forceuser.

After the Force discovery on Ach-to, the prime Jedi projected themselves "Crait Luke" style to other worlds not just to watch but also to teach them. Those saw them as "celestials" or celestial like gods in the sky. Book of Sith mentions this having happened to Dathomir and other places with the Son and Daughter of Mortis projecting themselves to remote places through the Force. Which is why I ponder how to square Mortis with Ach-to somehow.

Then it is only a small step from projection to either teleportation (aka raindrop and lightsaber in ST) or full WBW portal travel later reverse engineered into Hypergate networks, like Purgill were into Forcebased hyperdrives. The discovery of the Force in a pre-technological age allowed worlds to connect and kickstarted galactic evolution kinda by spreading its knowledge and use with technology only coming after the Force, Force Builders, Force Astrogators, etc. did the heavy lifting beforehand.


Though, maybe given Tython was lost to myth and rediscovered and resettled by TOR era Jedi, maybe the same happened to Ach-to and we can have my ancient Ach-to predate Tython as well as it's renaissance post Tython as you propose. Nothing would speak against that. The question is when the Prime Jedi story happened, before or after then, or if after, who was there before? The Celestials? Mortis Ones? Else?

Great post, thx!

I think as with real history as you said, it is a bit of both. Mankind loves to find its "firsts" and "primes" but history never ends or begins and there always pops up something predating the first (re)discovery of the Force. Nevertheless SW is a modern myth and mythology has its roots and beginnings in the supernatural and biblical and therefore SW may have a "beginning" for the Jedi and Force discovery.

Your final question if Jedi created the Church of the Force or the other way around, well, that depends on how you define Jedi. Is it Jedi as in their final incarnation and Order, then many others including the Church of the Force, created it. If you define Jedi as synonymous with Forceuser/Forcewielder, then those created the Church as the Church in turn created more of those and evolved them.

But yes, simultaneous evolution and paralell beginnings are at play a lot often and easily forgotten in mankind seeking simplicity and origin.

Tython is an important hub, like Jedha. Maybe even both more important than Ach-to in the end, despite Luke seeking it regardless for his own reasons. Kinda like Ach-to is the Bethlehem to Tython or Jedha's Jerusalem.

SW often not only draws from history and myth but also esoterics and its alternate histories. So for every civilisation began with the stone age and europe you got your pre-astronautic precurser races and their Atlantis and Lemuria so to speak. Does SW have a biblical origin myth that is debated if historic or made up like the Old Testament? With great floods, near-extinction events and reseeding the galaxy and Tho Yor Arcs to save the worthy? It sure does. We needn't scientifically fix down Ach-to or such to a specific date or what exactly happened there, though I like entertaining these thoughts. But I think, SW already has a lot of that built in. It has precursor races, it has mythical lost places and the UR cut off that was an essential part to ancient history and is lost to the newly emerging cultures that have to rediscover their roots and true ancient history beyond recorded one.

 

I wonder if one day we might get this awnsered in a movie with the origin of the Jedi order. There already being Jedi space munks around but they build their institusions, and Ach-To is the planet with fish nuns we see it being build.

 

It seems that the main "debate" here is how literally to take "Jedi" in regards to Ahch-To. @ColeFardreamer seems to want to take Ahch-To to be the ancestral seed for the "discovery of the Force" and the first Force-wielders, who would not be "Jedi" in the particular theological/philosophical or organized Order sense. @Sinrebirth takes "Jedi" to be a term for the modern order, and therefore necessarily a development of the ancestral Tythonian Je'daii and other previous Force-wielder organizations.

It does seem like the ST creators intended Ahch-To to be more directly about the Jedi Order, especially with the apparent tie-in to the "Jedi Sacred Texts." But also I'm not sure what there is to prevent "Jedi" from being used in the broader sense if later authors wanted to go the route that @ColeFardreamer suggests.

I don't know, I think either could work. Having Ahch-To as the aboriginal retreat where sentients first communed with the Force in such a way that they went from being just monks to Force-wielders has a lot of mythic resonance and resonance with the real-world site; but also having it as a retreat where people came from a more conflictual divided Galaxy of Force-wielders to commune more deeply with the Force and found the Jedi Order also has its power and resonance with the site. They're definitely incompatible stories though.

 

Well in the High Republic books they clearly state (think it might have been Light of the Jedi) that the Jedi Order had fallen (sometimes to near extinction) and been rebuilt many times before in the past. So that right there would tell you that the original Order would have been a lot different to the point that it could potentially be considered an entirely separate order from the one during the times in which the movies, books, shows are set.

 

Ahch-To.

 

I'll never spell that name right... thx! Argh-to for me! It is my bane!

 

I guess, for now, I am treating Tython and Ach-to as roughly contemporaneous, until more solid info arises (possibly from the planned James Mangold film about the early Jedi?) Obviously wiggle room must be left, and I suspect even the Jedi don't really remember all the details.
Most likely it is pre Ossus at least. But may not go much further past 26,000 BBY either?

If there was a conflict of extremely early Force Users, then we may have seen some hints of that in the culture of Lew'el (see Legends of Luke Skywalker book) and possibly future Jedha content may touch more upon this. Having Ach-To be even earlier and even tied to the Ones is intriguing though - if maybe a bit too audacious?

But we can expect to hear more about the Prime Jedi I suspect, before too long.
There's also the Kazerath Device, from the Poe Dameron comic, to consider... which does seem like it may tie into Tythonian ideas about Balance (as it needs both Light and Dark powers to activate it)

 

If Ahch-to is the origin world of the jedi, I wonder how much Lanai were involved in the early jedi order, either as jedi themselves or in terms of cultural influence.

The prime jedi seems to be human at least - so did Ahch-to used to have a human population or is he an offworlder who set up shop there for some reason? - but that still leaves plenty of room for lanai influence and/or participation.

 

I think the Lanai are merely caretakers, not Jedi themselves, though their females are like ascetic spartan Nuns and their males leave for fishing and raiding seasonally. TROS once considered to bring in Lanai on Kijimi as assassins.. which would be weird, but aside the cameo aspect may have no further implications specieswide I hope.

What puzzles me still is that the Lanai look like fish with bird legs, are said to be avian descended though. Flying fish or what? Or if avian means reptilian, like dinosaurs devolved into birds and reptiles, maybe Lanai ancestry is a mix of that. Etymology of "Lanai" stems from the name of the Hawaian island "Lanai" and the word "lanai" in hawaian language referring to a furnished veranda, a living room on a veranda thing. So these caretakers keep the temple liveable by their very name, huh?


The prime Jedi is human-ish... could be an alien with a larger head as well. Or it is artistic license. We don't know. But given movies prefer their human cast of actors it is likely that he will be human down the line. Given Ach-to is not the human homeworld though, he must have somehow ended up there with his first students.

The human homeworld seems to still be Coruscant for canon I think, though I prefer other contenders like Corellia (Alien Exodus kinda) or even the more complex SE explanation.

IF they ended up on Ach-to.. how?

Well @Sinrebirth would say, they came from Tython by spaceship but nah! Lets rather look at what we got on site to help us find explanations, even if not all must be known yet about that place like maybe hidden/sunken spacecraft.

1) What if in a paralell to Luke's X-Wing, the first human settlers arrived by spacecraft and sunk it to stay remote and be undisturbed in their meditation that will have them find the Force? This could be before or after Tython both.

2) What if when they arrived the ocean was not as high and the poles not melted yet? The Prime Temple was a holy mountain, not an island, and on its remote peak some monks found seclusion from whatever whent on downhill. The mountain was special and revered, maybe mysterious wonders happened on it due to the Mirror Cave or likewise phenomena. The Monks found the source to them and built a shrine around it, studied it, meditated on it to make contact with whoever put it there. But when their first kybersaber blasted through the moon, shattering it so the tides would rise the ocean level by melting the poles... (Lego Freemakers flashbacks), it became an island.

3) Or they arrived through the WBW Portal... by accident or choice. The rest is trying to find a way back to the civilised world and finding the Force to do so.

4) The Prime Jedi, human or not, originated on Ach-to. It becoming a human homeworld is... weird. It feels off.


Thus I suspect the Prime Jedi may be a Noah/Moses type figure. Moses as in he found the Force/Ten Commandmends/Ancient Jedi Texts thx to divine/Force intervention and spread it to his students. Moses in he lead his people out of some peril elsewhere and arrived on Ach-to as a new holy land. Was in a time pre-spaceflight, their arrival as wonderous as parting the seas to pass through to where no enemy could follow them? Like... parting space and time to cross the sea of stars called space through the WBW to Ach-to where no enemy could follow or enter behind them? And Noah in the respect that they had to start anew from scratch on Ach-to, alongside native Lanai, and rebuild civilisation, as well as whatever they brought along on their Ark, be that the WBW portal, or a Tho Yor situation.
Was it an Exodus from Egypt story?
Was it an flood and Ark story?
Was it a banishment from paradise story?
The third option could be, they had to leave paradise after sinfall. If Coruscant (or else) is the human homeworld, their paradise, then whatever darkened the place could lead to the Exodus. Be it selfimposed or banished, one of them culpable or innocent. In the aftermath, Coruscant (or else) fell from grace and evolved into what we know today... and they continued elsewhere and found to the Force and nature. Two opposites like Yin and Yang? Coruscant as artificial, Ach-to as natural?

Sidenotes in relation to my previous posts:
-If the Mortis characters are involved, and the father was the Prime Jedi, there is plenty of sins to choose from in their past on a multitude of planets that could account for the sinfall exodus plot.
-If the Flood is akin to whatever made the UR hard to traverse and cut off, Ahch-To may have been a safe haven for a family lost at space-sea within their Ark
-I still favor Corellia as human homeworld (if not going SE, which is cool, too!) for a variety of reasons given in other topics if anyone needs more details why (like, its former location within the Maw Cluster probably before Abeloths entrapment, which may explain the high concentration of human worlds of the Tion near by before it was moved to the Core where it kickstarted human expansion there)


What is key I think is a sinfall plot. Though when and how to relate it to the Ahch-to Force discovery/Jedi foundation story arc is the question. Was it a sinfall elsewhere that lead to their coming? A sinfall on Ach-to after the discovery that lead to their shism and some leaving for Ixigul? Or a sinfall after Ach-to elsewhere like on Ixigul perhaps, that lead to it becoming Exegol and the counterpoint to Ahch-to.

While for reasons already given in previous posts I still prefer Ahch-to set before everything else... the travelling aspect and sinfall parts of the story and the prospect of exploring these and mythology paralells in a movie one day certainly lend itself equally to @Sinrebirth's idea having it after Tython.