Saga Here is my unorthodox Star Wars opinion: change my mind!

My unpopular opinion is that the Force and it's Dark Side are sentient with their own goals. They get peeved when they are disrespectfully "used" and "mastered" by these users, but work with the user when they are treated as an "Ally" with reverence.

 

"left a Story treatment for Lucasfilm as a possible route but that wasn't the story"

There´s a reason why the term STORY treatment has the word "story" in it.

"you can't market it foe those that liked the Prequels because the general public think they suck"

Bull..t. It´s the vocal minority of PT bashers that believes they suck. The general public liked the "prequels" and STILL does.

"Deciding to do a retro movie again was a decision to overcome that CGI terror of the Prequels"

There is NO CGI terror on the "prequels" and deciding to do a retro movie wasn´t about using more practical effects but about ripping off the "original trilogy.

"Even GL would have changed it through the process, naturally as he saw fit."

Disney didn´t change GL´s story. They DITCHED GL´s story and started more or less from scratch.

"Maybe Lucas's ideas for the ST are better. But we know nothing."

We know that under Lucas we got Episodes I through VI while Disney gave us TFA. That´s everything we need to know.

"Lucas was neverr involved in the Creative Process, he hadn't been involved once the company was signed over."

Episodes VII-IX were supposed to be based upon the story HE created and he was supposed to be a creative consultant on the movies, i.e. being involved in the creative process. But yeah he wasn´t involved since they ditched his story and made him leave.

"Arndt being fired didn't happen. He came to the agreement to leave"

To me there´s no difference.

"I suspect under GL's instructions"

I don´t believe that for a second!

"JJ wanted more of what he had as a child. Is he wrong to do that?"

In this case? TOTALLY!

"he decided he didn't want to do it"

AFTER Disney ditched his story he spend several years working on and decided to do a "retro" movie, ie. remake the "original trilogy".

 

"Retro film" is Lucas saying that the technicality behind it did not push things forward. People blow this statement out of proportion.

Also, in the credits it clearly says "based on characters created by George Lucas."

 

Episode VII is the worst of the lot.

 

"in the credits it clearly says "based on characters created by George Lucas."

Yeah, based on the characters he created in the "original trilogy" instead on his Episodes VII-VIII-IX story.

 

Lucas also gave us Howard the Duck and Red Tails. We literally have no idea how his Episode VII could have turned out.

 

I was uming and ahing on wherever or not I should reply or even if you could take in and accept another opinion. Maybe.

Mark Kermode BBC film review Star Wars: The Force…:

From 2:00, he gets it. I think he's wrong about the heft in the dogfights because honestly alot of the film was weightless CGI. Compare the space battle to ANH.

"left a Story treatment for Lucasfilm as a possible route but that wasn't the story"

There´s a reason why the term STORY treatment has the word "story" in it.


There is also a reason why the term story TREATMENT has the word "treatment" in it.
It's just ln possible route. A starting point for them to work from.

"you can't market it foe those that liked the Prequels because the general public think they suck"

Bull..t. It´s the vocal minority of PT bashers that believes they suck. The general public liked the "prequels" and STILL does.

Really?! Really?! The films are openly mocked and generally derided. If the general public liked it so much why doea GL think they didn't? Why aren't they more popular? These are not pop culture touchstones like the OT. I don't think I can honestly say the general public Still like the prequels. They never have.

"Deciding to do a retro movie again was a decision to overcome that CGI terror of the Prequels"

There is NO CGI terror on the "prequels" and deciding to do a retro movie wasn´t about using more practical effects but about ripping off the "original trilogy.

Really?! Really?! People hated it for that. I mean I'm not plucking this from thin air, these are general widespread reasons people didn't like the films. People thought most of the film was CGI and they didn't like it.

I don't think the idea was ever to "rip off the OT", it was always about Practical effects. Would they hearken back to the OT, sure. They are what the General public love(d) and they didn't like the digital effects uaed in the prequels.

"Even GL would have changed it through the process, naturally as he saw fit."

Disney didn´t change GL´s story. They DITCHED GL´s story and started more or less from scratch.

But they didn't have any obligation to use it in the first place.
I don't think we can say they didn't use any of it because alot does seem plausibly Lucas's.

"Maybe Lucas's ideas for the ST are better. But we know nothing."

We know that under Lucas we got Episodes I through VI while Disney gave us TFA. That´s everything we need to know.

6 movies over 1 movie, sure great comparison. TFA made more money than all the other films apart from ANH. It did something right. Oh yeah the General public liked it.

"Lucas was neverr involved in the Creative Process, he hadn't been involved once the company was signed over."

Episodes VII-IX were supposed to be based upon the story HE created and he was supposed to be a creative consultant on the movies, i.e. being involved in the creative process. But yeah he wasn´t involved since they ditched his story and made him leave.

At no point did they force him to leave. He was meant to guide the films but ultimately the paradox was he wasn't going to get fully involved. He was meant to be more of an overseer than a "boot on the ground". He didn't want to do that for the end result of people hating him.
It couldn't possibly have worked. You can't have someone make a movie someone else has written and then have the guy floating around ready to intervene.

"Arndt being fired didn't happen. He came to the agreement to leave"

To me there´s no difference.

I don't think you want to hear a different opinion. I gave you the reasons and it's completely different.

"I suspect under GL's instructions"

I don´t believe that for a second!

Then don't but GL did know him throughout his career. I don't know for certain but it's a likely possibility.

"JJ wanted more of what he had as a child. Is he wrong to do that?"

In this case? TOTALLY!

WHY? The General public loved it, they can't get enough of these characters.
Here's someone who loved the OT, it changed him and he loves those films. He gets the chance to make a film so why isn't he going to make one like that when it had a huge influence on him. The goal was to impact children the way he was. As much as the film was awful it worked. Kids finally have a film that broadens THEIR horizons in a way NO other film has done.

Generally films have become poor and I think GL is one of the only people to realise that. Films should be more than $, more than cool ideas, more than great actors and actresses, they should be about the world, people, new horizons something that can touch everyone and appeal to everyone.

As much as I like cinema, no other films does this. They are all wheeled off in a mechanical sense and the film never resonants with everyone.

JJ understands this, he showed so in Super8. Go see it it, it's great.
I'm surprised how he can make that but the Star Trek films seem so like how cinema should be.

I should be generally amazed when I come out of the cinema instead it's never fully been there. Maybe Promethues but that's it.



"he decided he didn't want to do it"

AFTER Disney ditched his story he spend several years working on and decided to do a "retro" movie, ie. remake the "original trilogy".

They didn't ditch his story, they just decided not to use it and GL went his separate ways.

It is not a remake. Very similar yes but not a remake. I thought the same (still kinda do) but when they take inspiration from those films that is what it will emulate.
They weren't wrong to do that because ultimately that's what the general public wanted. They delivered exactly what they wanted and the film made alot of money.

 

Chewbacca Mom sucks.

 

Dude, Howard was amazing and if I remember, he never directed any of those movies.

 

He didn't direct Empire and Jedi either, though. He had about the same role in those films as he did in the films I mentioned. And yes, Howard the Duck is amazing, but not for the right reasons.

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with putting women in leading roles in SW movies. In fact, I say it's about time.

 

I've noticed no one complain about there being a female lead in Star Wars. Only noticed a bit when the announcement of Rogue One that is because people wanted to see a male-lead in a non-Lucas led Star Wars film. But that quickly subsided completely away.

I eventually want a non-human lead in a Star Wars.

 

There was bit of a fiasco on twitter where the TFA's trailer showed Finn a black stormtrooper having a big role in it. These people perceived it to be ''anti-white'',

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/boycott-star-wars-vii-movement-833102

 

You guys see the ridiculous threads on IMDB about stuff like this.

 

That's why the general public gave TPM and AOTC about 55%, and TFA 89%? The general public is ambivalent to the PT at best. Stop making straw-men

Disney gave a movie that nearly everyone liked, while GL gave two films people disliked and two more that were 'could've done better'.

He left voluntarily, and after that there was no obligation for him to be involved. How can you not understand that? Nobody forced Lucas to leave.

One's a lot less ugly than the other.

You're one of a tiny minority who think that. This thread contains unpopular opinions, in case you've noticed.

Nope, he left voluntarily, TFA is not a 'remake', with different character types, actions and settings, and what they did worked.

Lucas is 75, easily old enough to be your (or my) grandfather. Does it not occur to you that maybe he wanted to retire? Nobody forced him to sell a company that he owned.
Equally, nobody was obliged to use his story after he left.

Also your business of insulting and belittling those who hold different opinions won't earn too many friends.

 

Second most dangerous place to be in after the youtube comment section for a prequel fan to be in.

 

I don't think people should focus a lot on what race a character looks like.Physical appearances and traits shouldn't matter much compared to a person's inner being, which is what really matters.
I think focus should be more on inner character and how well written a character is.
Whether a character is "white, "black","hispanic", or whatever racial/color label people give shouldn't be a big deal
Who cares Finn is black
So what Manadalore has a bunch of "white" people with blonde hair blue eyes.
Or so what that a certain episode/book/comic doesn't display x amount of characters with certain physical looks.
or Nute Gunray apparently sounds asian
and Jar Jar Jamacian
etc etc

To me the concept of "black", "white", "asian", etc doesn't exist in Star Wars.
There are good characters and bad characters.

I don't judge a character based on "color"
My decision to like or dislike a movie is not based on what color the lead characters are.



An artistic creation such as a book/movie shouldn't be all about giving "fans" what they like.
Something about corporate works of authorship I don't like is money playing a big decision in writing.
There are stuff that shouldn't be in movies/books for moral reasons, but besides that it's personal opinions
and a creator doesn't have to carter to our personal opinions.

Example:
I don't like the cgi fake looks in ROTS, but George Lucas should not change it because I don't like it. If that's want he wanted, I don't see anything wrong about it. And it's no reason for people to verbally abuse him.
Star Wars isn't all about us.

Though I take issue with some views that appear to be present in some parts such as
Obi-wan's line in ROTS "only a Sith deals in absolutes" which I believe is wrong( I believe in good and evil absolutes). But I wouldn't verbally abuse him over that even though that is a line that shouldn't be in there.

 

There is also a reason why the term story TREATMENT has the word "treatment" in it.
It's just ln possible route.

There is also a reason why the term STORY TREATMENT has words “story” and “treatment” in it. It is a STORY in form of a TREATMENT. It includes not only what the story is going to be about but also how the story is going the end.

A starting point for them to work from.

Yeah, a starting point they didn´t work from at all, instead they ditched it a made up their own starting point – ripp off and cash on the original trilogy as much as possible

“Really?! Really?! People hated it for that. I mean I'm not plucking this from thin air, these are general widespread reasons people didn't like the films. People thought most of the film was CGI and they didn't like it.”

Yeah, the PT bashing minority hated it because they thought most of it was CGI when in fact most of it were practicall effects. And the general public not only doesn´t give a s..t about how many CGI is in those movies, most of them can´t even tell which effects are practical and which digital.

Really?! Really?! The films are openly mocked and generally derided. If the general public liked it so much why doea GL think they didn't? Why aren't they more popular? These are not pop culture touchstones like the OT. I don't think I can honestly say the general public Still like the prequels. They never have

Yeah, openly mocked a generally derided by vocal minority of hateboys and dumb media. But, keep living in a denial.

“I don't think the idea was ever to "rip off the OT", it was always about Practical effects. Would they hearken back to the OT, sure. They are what the General public love.”

And I think you´re wrong. And BTW the general public likes the “prequels”.

“But they didn't have any obligation to use it in the first place.

And I have no obligation to like the decision to not use it in the first place.

“TFA made more money than all the other films apart from ANH. It did something right.”

Yeah, it had a clever marketing campaign.


I don't think we can say they didn't use any of it because alot does seem plausibly Lucas's.


Like what? Another Empire, another Rebelion,the Republic once again destroyed, the Jedi once again all but extinct, another young Skywalker falling to the dark side, betraying his master and helping to hunt down and destroy the Jedi; and Han Solo and Chewbacca smuggling and flying around in Millenium Falcon? I don´t believe that for a second! So far thhe only things from his story that made it to the movie are having the main protagonist to be a female scavenger living on a remote desolate planet send on a journey to become a Jedi and the concept a ship graveyard left after an old battle between the Empire and the Rebel Alliance. And that´s it.



“6 movies over 1 movie, sure great comparison.”

I´m comparing the first movies with TFA in terms of quality, not quantity. So yeah, it´s a fair comparison.

At no point did they force him to leave.

Yeah, you´re right, the fact of them ditching his story didn´t forced him to leave. Not at all.

“I don't think you want to hear a different opinion. I gave you the reasons and it's completely different.”

Disney firing Arndt, Arndt and Disney coming to and agreement, the result is the same; Arndt and his script out; Abrams, Kasdan and their script in. But yeah, I was wrong about the "firing Arndt" part.

Kids finally have a film that broadens THEIR horizons in a way NO other film has done.

Good for them.

“They didn't ditch his story, they just decided not to use it and GL went his separate ways”

I don´t even know what we´re arguing about here. Deciding to not use GL´s story that he gave them = ditching his story


"That's why the general public gave TPM and AOTC about 55%, and TFA 89%?"

Rotten Tomattoes doesn´t represent general public by a long shot.

"He left voluntarily, and after that there was no obligation for him to be involved."

Once again, it was Horn´s and Iger´s decision to not use his story that forced him to leave. After his story got thrown out of the window there was no reason for him to be involved in the first place.

"How can you not understand that?"
I understand that very well and I respect GL´s decision to leave after his story got thrown into a garbage can. What I don´t respect is Iger´s and Horn´s decision to not use his story.

"You're one of a tiny minority who think that. This thread contains unpopular opinions, in case you've noticed."
Yeah, and I stated my unpopular opinion, which is what this thread is about, isn´t it?

"Does it not occur to you that maybe he wanted to retire?"
Oh, it does. And once again, I respect his decision.

"Nobody forced him to sell a company that he owned."
I know that.

 

Carrie Fisher is a bad actress.

 

Wasn't Han Solo a green alien in the previous scripts of SW?
How is him being changed to human any different than Disney/Abrams/Kennedy changing things for TFA?

Or because Lucas as creator changed it and no one else can change things?

 

I actually agree with most of what you said. (Though I actually really like how ROTS looks) To me race, gender, etc are irrelevant. I get just as sick with people glorifying the introduction of a leading character of a certain ethnicity, or sex, or whatever, as I do of people complaining about it. I literally couldn't care less about what is between a persons legs, or the color of their skin. What I care about is their story, their personality, who they are. And the accusations of racial stereotypes on some of those characters are just completely lost on me. Great post!

 

Well I'm in the right place then!

HTD was a film I really liked. Genuinely liked! It was a fun- crazy, b-movie extravaganza and they knew it was crazy.


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