Vader on the verge of regaining lost potential in Shadow of the Empire?

In Shadows of the Empire, Vader has just discovered a way to regenerate all his limbs and lung. He comments that even though he can now only do it for a short while now, soon it will be forever. So, once he had mastered this power, could he not have once again recovered his lost potential and once again had the ability to become twice as powerful as the Emperor?

 

I dunno, I seem to recall that vader and the Emperor had a parasitic relationship, at least according to George. They were both trying to kill each other but if that happened they BOTH died.

And remember what happened when Vader healed himself, he felt JOY at this and that killed it. Deep down he was still Anakin Skywalker.

 

Vader knew how to regenerate himself from the beginning. It's just he couldn't get it to work.

Vader needed the Light Side to heal himself or to give himself utterly to evil.

 

It just never occurred to poor Annie that he could have new lungs installed.

 

I think the Emperor's chemical poison had an affect on him.

 

While I wouldn't mind the idea that Anni's body was sabotaged by the Emperor, it doesn't really make sense. Palpatine was all bummered out by his apprentice's little incident-- why would he further damage his body?

 

Well Dark side sourcebook indicates it.

My guess is that Palpatine is aware that he could possibly control Luke after he's discovered immortality, less so Vader.

 

Does it? Where at? (I'm not doubting, I just don't feel like flipping through my copy at the moment).

Anyway, the assumption-- which, like I said, is pretty logical-- that Palpatine planned Vader's little accident in order to neuter him is contradicted by newer sources, which depict Palpatine as less than enthused about Vader's injuries. Remember in RotS when he gleefully tells Yoda of how his apprentice will surpass them both? Palpatine did go on to look into making himself immortal, but at that point immediately post-Clone War he's still in selfless good-of-the-Sith mode.

In other words, while Palpatine might later on have decided that having his personal "Chosen One" in an iron lung was for the best, he was definitely not thinking that at the beginning, and thus would not have sabotaged his pupil's recovery.

So... another explanation is needed. Or Ani's just a dolt.

 

it was one of my favorite EU moments ever when vader regenerated his lungs and was actually breathing, only to have it cut short because he was overcome with JOY - brilliant, just brilliant!

 

Cloning is not very widespread, even for (especially not for) medical purposes? Cloning high levels of midichlorians is dangerous? The nature of his injuries didn't lend themselves to that kind of treatment?

There's got to be something.

 

Palpatine hadn't planned on being immortal then either.

 

But that doesn't satisfactorily explain him trying to turn Luke, a Jedi more powerful in the Force than himself. I don't buy the "able to control Luke better than he was able to control Vader" argument, because Luke didn't have the crippling emotional issues that Palpatine was always telling Vader to get over, anyway. A few possibilities:

1) He'd reached a setback in his search for immortality.
2) He wanted a powerful apprentice all along and we're neglecting to examine something about his relationship to Anakin or about Anakin's condition.
3) Vader was a fully trained Jedi kept disabled so as not to destroy Palpatine. Luke's imposed disability would be his level of training.
4) As is implied in DL, midichlorians ain't everything, especially for a dark sider. I likened Palpy's take on Vader's condition to erectile dysfunction: he seems to feel that Vader's got a mental block that just keeping him from getting his power up. Killing Luke - and the subsequent destruction of the Rebels on Endor i.e. Leia - would erase all ties to Padme, and the Skywalkers would be no more. All his hopes and his identity would lie with Palpatine. I tend to think that Vader was not always the Vader we see in RotJ, although he is often characterized as such. I think that for twenty years he was becoming a harsh, evil Sith Lord, and it wasn't until he learned that the pilot who blew up the Death Star was named Luke Skywalker that he began to backslide.
5) For Luke to kill Vader, he would have to be pretty far gone already. Palps would relish a student with that kind of hate.

 

I think the relationship between Vader and Palpatine became one of grudging acceptance. Palpatine couldn't have maintained control without Vader and Vader was more or less dependent upon Palpatine for the power he bestowed to Vader. Vader was too naive, especially early on, to realize the power he could foster and hold himself. Is the arrogance there? Absolutely. Is the real confidence in ability there? absolutely not.

As far as the ability to "heal" himself or get "clone implants", we are making a lot of assumptions. 1st, we assume that the darkside is benign to Anakin's condition, something that we know is normally not the case. The "joy" of healing in Shadows breaks his concentration and he collapses again. The darkside is continually assaulting his body, as ever darklord has been plagued. To truly heal himself would mean salvation for Anakin, and the death of Vader's ambition. As far as implants are concerned...cloned lungs would be a unique operation, but even if they were possible, I would assume a HIGH rejection rate for anyone, and in Vader's case, the power of the darkside would attack anything foreign of that nature. I would assume the only option Anakin would truly have would be to go with entirely artificial lungs...then he becomes more machine inside then out...not neccessarily a deal.

In the end, Vader is who he is because it's how it needs to be...the hopes he may have had, or the intentions of Palpatine to him have and will change with each unfolding story. But in the end, they were evil partners, with one betraying the other in a surprising way...a selfless one.

Final Thought: Palpatine wanted Luke for 1 reason...Vader wanted Luke...and Luke wasn't dead, Vader was going to try to use him against the Emperor. Palps couldn't kill Luke for fear of Vader's vengeance. Once into DE, that is more legit need for Luke as a pupil, but especially at the time of ROTJ, it is more a case of keeping Skywalkers from stacking against him.

 

Interesting take, all in all. If Vader sank farther into the dark side, perhaps it would allow him to heal.

Valid, and certainly Palpish, thought I don't think Palps ever did this sort of thing for one reason alone.

 

Let us not forget that Vader's medical condition is the result of his losing to a Jedi who wasn't nearly as strong in the Force as he was. There was an element of punishment in Vader's medical treatment.

As for Luke - I honestly think Palpatine viewed the whole situation as a game. Both trilogies make clear that Palpatine enjoyed seducing people to the Dark Side and manipulating events. The way he saw it, he would still end up with a Skywalker as his servant and I don't think he was especially picky which one. Vader was older and better trained but he was also a physical and psychological mess while Luke was young, whole, and had vast potential.

What I actually think Shadows of the Empire shows is Vader moving from his position in ESB where he seems to view Luke as a younger version of himself to seeing Luke for Luke, an essential element for the events of RoTJ since Vader was far more emotionally involved than in ESB. That Luke might think and feel differently than Anakin apparently did not occur to him since from Vader's POV father and son seemed a lot alike. Superficially Luke and Anakin are alot alike - physically similiar, reckless, superb fighter pilots, powerful in the Force. Its their personalities and world-views that are radically different. Once Vader started to see - and care about - the real Luke he was ready for the vital admission in ROTJ that his fall to the Dark Side was a negative thing.

"It is too late for me, son."

 

Palpy didn't plot for fun.

Which is why I see the original trilogy as high-stakes version of the typical father/son narrative.

 

This idea of Vader being able to regrow his limbs and heal himself - is it officially part of canon?

Does this mean Jedis and Sith can do this or would it be limited to Anakin exclusively because of his special status (his midi-clorian count, etc)?

And if a person could control their midi-clorians, couldn't it be possible to prevent aging (to a certain degree) by making sure your cells stay "intact" and don't weaken over time? It would probably take a lot of power to do this, but I wonder if it's possible.

 

Shadows of the Empire is one of my favourite Star Wars books, and I have read it cover to cover 4 times. My impression on Vader healing himself was this: He believed it possible for the Dark Side to heal him to the point he could come off the respirator. However, he would have to become completely evil and immersed in the Dark Side such as the Emperor. And the little bit of good and light that that was once Anakin Skywalker, that still remained in Vader would not allow that. When Vader would think of Luke, the light would awaken in him, and the darkness would flee from it. And that would stop the healing process. At least that was Vaders POV in the book, because he knew if he couldn't purge what was left of that "weak" and "frail" man Anakin Skywalker...it would be the end of him, which ultimately, it was.

However, SOTE was written before the prequel movies. Now that we have the story with the clones and we know how advanced science was during Vader's time...it does seem like they should have been able to do more for him medically.


~Piper

 

It would have been interesting to see if Vader could fully regenerate if he had combined his power with Luke's. I also like the little snippet where Vader felt Luke and another force prescence of equal strength for a short moment. At that point he didn't realize Leia was his daughter.

 

Palpatine didn't want Luke dead, once he figured out he wouldn't turn?

"And now young Skywalker..............you will die." and he proceeds to blast him with lightning. Had Vader not intervened and killed him, Palpatine would have killed Luke. ROTJ makes it quite clear. If he was not trying to kill Luke because he was afraid of Vader retailiating (Palpatine being afraid of Vader? HA!, his arrogance would prevent him from worrying about him) then why tell Luke, right in front of Vader, that he was planning on killing him?

 

I loved that part to rumsmuggler. Steve Perry did such an excellent job with that book.


~Piper

 

yep..

 

Just one note: Vader couldn't regenerate his limbs. Nothing ever suggested that. They were gone, and he's not a Trandoshan. He could have healed his lungs, because that was just a matter of healing tissue that was still there, not generating a huge amount of body mass out of nothing.

 

Yea Shadows is still my favorite book. I loved that part in Vaders healing chamber. But its been stated many times that Sith cannot heal,its a "Light" side power. also, in Dark Lord, while Palpatine didnt orchestrate Vader's condition, he said (to himself) that what happened couldnt have gone better in his favor. Vader would easily overthrow him, but instead, Vader is now very dependant on Palpatine to teach him the ways of the Sith,which i think he really didnt do at all. He had totall control he taught him only a little here and there. He also didnt plan for Padme to die, but eventually she would have been killed because she was the last part of is humanity. Palptine really had it made, a strong apprentice but not strong enough to destroy him-and im not counting when Vader threw him down the wtvr it was he was thrown into.

 

Ok, that makes more sense...it would be interesting to see if someone was powerful enough in the Force to control the midi-clorians to the point where he/she would make them regenerate limbs. If Plageuis supposedly was able to create life (if we were to believe that) I wonder if it would have made regeration possible?