Was Darth Maul supposed to lead the Seperatists?

Was it Sidious's plan all along to create the Seperatists vs. Republic War with Maul as the leader of the Seperatists?

If not, and the Clone War was a plan invented after Maul's death, what do you think Sidious would have been doing to gain control of the Republic by the time of AOTC if Maul were still alive?

 

Maul would have led some sort of movement to bring down the Republic, whether or not it would have been the Seperatists will always remain to be seen.

 

I think he still would have had Dooku join the Sith and lead the Separatists.

Sidious doesn't seem to be tied down to the rule of two. I bet he would have been happy to have both Luke and Vader as his apprentices if it had worked out that way.


Rick McCallum loves you!

 

I don't know if I see Darth Maul as the charasmatic seperatists type. This may suggest that the plot for episode II didn't begin until after episode I, meaning sidious hadn't planned all this out from the start. He made it up as he went alone. He probably saw a golden oppurtunity when he was approached by Dooku. Dooku simply had the charisma to attract the seperatists. Maul was more of a lean mean killing machine. Now if he had to force the seperatists to join at lightsaber point that would have been right up Maul's alley

 

Good question. Darth Maul was there to do Darth Sidious's bidding. Maul was an intriuiging character but no personality. It would have been interesting to see how his political skills were. I'm sure Maul had skills in the political arena, since his Master was controlling the Senate. He would have led the Separatist very effectively.

 

Absolutely. Darth Sidious would probably have achieved even more sinister ends had Maul survived. Remember that his survival would entals the death of Obi-Wan, too.

The real question is how good Sid's prescient powers are. Can he forsee significant twists of fate? I think not. I think his skill comes more from an abilirty to have a plan A, a plan B, and plans C through Z so that no matter what happens he has prepared for it.

He has prescient powers but he can't see certain things, and when these "dead zones" come up, the moments that are dark to him, he can still see alternate futures.

I mean he is very powerful but he did not forsee his demise, and I think certain things did surprise him.

 

I think because Darth Maul was defeated Sidious came up with an all new strategy that included recruiting Dooku as his new apprentice.

Where Maul was more like a stealthful hunter and soldier Dooku was more like a charismatic politician who relied on his leadership skills more than his physical ability to do his master's bidding. I couldn't see Darth Maul sitting at the head of the meeting table the same way Dooku did.

 

Maul's very different style would've been interesting, to say the least...

 

"Sidious doesn't seem to be tied down to the rule of two."

Oh? Are you one of those "Palpatine is a clone" people?

Palpatine probably expected the Naboo blockade to be successful. Maul might've been okay working with the separatists, but Palps needed a new guy anyways. Dooku is more persuasive and "regal".

 

I dont think so I think Darth Maul was more like the "I got you to watch my back" Dont talk dont ask questions you just do what I say. Kind of like an enforcer or like a hit man.

Remember Dooku was always involved in politics..

I think Sidious wanted to use both Dooku and Maul. Dooku was already with Sidious during the time of Episode 1 I think. Especially if Dooku was anything to do with the mysterious Sypho-Dias

 

Maul's definitely in the 'aggressive negotiations' mould.

 

I don't know if I see Darth Maul as the charasmatic seperatists type.

I agree. Maul was more of a warrior than a leader. At the time of TPM, I think Palpatine's main objective was just to get elected Supreme Chancellor. Maul was useful to him during that time. Palpatine needed a killing machine to try and take out any opposition to his rise to that status.

Now after getting elected, Palpatine knew he needed a different kind of apprentice, more of a psychological warrior than a physical one. A warrior who could stir up feuds, facilitate mistrust and create conflicts. Enter Count Dooku.

And I think this point of the story was always in Lucas' head. He just needed to flesh out the individual characteristics of those involved.

 

Sidious doesn't seem to be tied down to the rule of two. I bet he would have been happy to have both Luke and Vader as his apprentices if it had worked out that way.

Actually George Lucas said something about that.

"One of the themes throughout the films is that the Sith Lords, when they started out thousands of years ago, embraced the Dark Side. They were greedy and self-centered and they all wanted to take over, so they killed each other. Eventually there was only one left, and that one took on an apprentice. And for thousands of years, the master would teach the apprentice, the master would die, the apprentice would then teach another apprentice, the master, and so on. But there could never be any more than two of them, because if there were, they would try to get rid of the leader, which is exactly what Vader was trying to do, and that's exactly what the Emperor was trying to do. The Emperor was trying to get rid of Vader, and Vader was trying to get rid of the Emperor. And that is the antithesis of a symbiotic relationship, in which if you do that, you become cancer, and you eventually kill the host, and everything dies."
--George Lucas

Also, the Separtist plan started after Maul's death. What happened is Dooku was recruited by Palpatine, and they discussed a plan to reform the Republic and that is where the Cloning project came in. The clones were ordered, Jango was recruited, and then the Separatist Movement started eight years after the clones were ordered. Two years later, the clones were discovered by Obi-Wan and the Clone Wars broke out. All that lead up to Palpatine getting Emergency Powers.

 

I don't think Maul would have had the intellect for it. I see him more as muscle for hire.

 

I think Maul was more of a silent assassin. He was never meant to lead anyone. His mission was to kill the Jedi. I'm sure Sidious would have continued using him (had he not been killed), but he still needed to discredit the Jedi. I think thats why Dooku works so well.
Sidious had to use a Jedi at some point, but if Maul was still alive, he just might not have let the new guy all the way in to the club and given him a Darth name.

 

I love these people who say Maul was dumb.

Dumb guys don't take out Jedi masters.

Anyhow...Who says the leader of the seperatists has to be a Sith? He/she/it could well have been some charasmatic politician/business leader who did Sidious' orders. Maul would have been there to keep an eye on him.

Another thought:
Perhaps Sidious intially planned to have the Trade Federation lead his war against the Republic; the other business groups really aren't necessary.

-Trade Federation starts blockading and taking over other planets. Perhaps other business groups join, but more likely not.

-Sidious, in his Senator Palpatine guise, and possibly using Amidala, forces a vote of no-confidence in Valorum, thus becoming chancellor.

-At roughly the same time, he secretly creates the clone army. Until then, he wears away the Jedi Order by having them fight the droid army and gets his emergency powers.

-The clones come into play, defeat the droid armies, and are turned against the Jedi.

Empire-building 101: Dooku isn't really necessary, neither is the seperatist movement.

Note: Palpatine could have used the Trade Federation's actions against other large business groups, stripping them of meaningful combat forces and power.

 

"He/she/it could well have been some charasmatic politician/business leader who did Sidious' orders. Maul would have been there to keep an eye on him."

As he did to some extent in TPM, and as Vader did to Tarkin in ANH.

 

Thanks. Exactly my point.

 

This is a really tough question to answer. I think that Darth Maul was more of a warrior who did Palpatine's dirty work. If Maul had survived TPM, I don't believe that he would have been playing Dooku's role. I think Palpatine would still be trying to gain control on his own with Maul behind the scenes. But when the tide changed when Maul was killed, so did Palpatine's plan. He needed a new apprentice, and when Dooku joined him, he thought that it would seem reasonable for him to use Dooku to lead the Separatists. Afterall, Dooku had lost confidence in the Republic, so it seemed like a logical choice.

 

I severely doubt it... I don't think Sidious is that dumb. Not only was Maul not charasmatic at all, he looked like a evil clown that would be hard to trust. Dooku was a well known and very respected induvidual as well as very charasmatic. Palpatine most likely realised Dooku's potential even before the events of TPM.

 

If Maul survived, the plan would of been different for Episode II.

 

I think Maul would have had some verbal communication problems if he tried to lead the separtists.

 

he talked quite well in his scene with sidious

 

I do question that as well. One would almost wonder how Darth Sidious could have so successfully instigated the Clone Wars and pitted all factions and powerful organizations/political entities against one another so well with Darth Maul and not with Darth Tyrannus/Dooku?

I am not sure that Darth Maul -a very powerful Sith 'apprentice' to Sidious and expert warrior- would have been as effective as Dooku in the role as Seperatist leader. Judging from Episode I and his appearance in the comics/novels Maul definately is very intelligent and highly skilled but he still seemed more to be the combattant/warrior type who uses raw power and martial prowess to overcome his foe. While surely cunning, he does not have the clear personality and charisma that Dooku has.

Count Dooku by his very style seems to be more the cunning foe (compared to Darth Maul). He has the image of a noble and distinguished gentleman and his impressive lightsaber skills nonewithstanding, his most significant powers lay in manipulation and instigation.
Much like Darth Sidious in that aspect, Dooku sets up and creates the 'ideal' settings, traps and conflicts to drive all sides in the direction they -the Sith- want them to go.

(I think that Darth Maul and Darth Vader resemble one another more in their style and personality as 'apprentices' to Sidious compared to Count Dooku.)