Was Dooku Planning to Kill Sidious in AOTC?

In AOTC, when Obi-Wan is imprisoned in the ray shield shackles on Geonosis, Count Dooku comes in and tells him selective truthes about Darth Sidious and the reemergence of the Sith. Why would he do this? My theory is that like all Sith, he was treacherous, he wanted to kill his Master, and assume greater power.

Based on this theory, Dooku could have had two possible strategies:

1. He was going to manipulate Obi-Wan into helping him kill Sidious, then cut ties with Obi-Wan, or kill him.
2. He was going to manipulate Obi-Wan into helping him kill Sidious and turn him to the Dark Side in the process, then take Obi-Wan as his Sith apprentice.

Any of my fellow fans have any thoughts on this, either original, or based on EU comics, novels, etc?

 

I was always under the impression that Dooku just wanted to trick Obi-Wan into using the Dark Side for the CIS by making him think he was doing it for pro-Jedi reasons. Then, he would reveal the truth that they were working for Sidious, but Obi-Wan would be too far into the Dark Side to return to the light.

Just my thoughts.

 

I'm thinking yes, based on what I read, I believe in the TPM novelization, that the Sith master and apprentice always each plan to kill the other one.

Sidious killed Plagueis.

Sidious had Anakin kill Dooku.

Anakin/Vader planned to kill Sidious from the time he turned to the Dark Side, based on his conversation with Padme. He wanted her to join him and overthrow Palpatine and rule the galaxy with him.

Vader did eventually kill Sidious, after Sidious tried to have Luke kill Vader.

(Come to think of it, did Sidious actually kill Plagueis? He certainly seemed to enjoy having others do his dirty work for him.)

But either way, I'm going with yes. Dooku wanted to turn Obi-Wan to the Dark Side as his apprentice, then the two of them would kill Sidious and rule the galaxy as Sith Master and Apprentice.

 

Good points Anakin-Girl. With all the murderous betrayl between Masters and their pupils, you'd think at some point the Sith would wise up and stop training apprentices. In essence, they're training someone to kill them.

As far as your Darth Plagueis question, this is from Darth Plagueis' Wookiepedia bio:

"Plagueis, who had discovered a way to prevent death with the Force, intended to explore an extreme application of his power?the ability to create life from nothing, using the Force to directly manipulate the midi-chlorians found in a living being's blood. When the Dark Lord revealed his plans for this experiment to Sidious, Sidious grew concerned. When Plagueis then stated that a being created in this manner would be the living embodiment of the Force, Sidious realized that his master intended to create his replacement, and decided to kill Plagueis before that happened.[5] Plagueis never suspected his impending death.[9] Shortly after, at some point between 52 BBY and 46 BBY, Sidious murdered Darth Plagueis as he slept."

 

All Sith apprentices want to kill their Masters.

All Sith Masters want to kill their apprentices.

Treachery is the way of the Sith.

 

Yup. Never really thought of it that way before. Don't know how I missed it.

 

Exactly what I was going to say.

 

The ROTS novel says you're all wrong.

Dooku's plan as of ROTS was to transition past the Master-Apprentice rule; he intended-and Sidious told him-to simply show Anakin the infinite power of the Dark Side; Dooku, in his plan, would have become the new Sith Master while Sidious was the Emperor.

Obviously this did not quite work out as Dooku intended.

 

Dooku, in his plan, would have become the new Sith Master while Sidious was the Emperor.

Obviously this did not quite work out as Dooku intended.



Apparently, Dooku wasnt good at Sith history, heh.

All Sith apprentices want to kill their Masters.

All Sith Masters want to kill their apprentices.

Treachery is the way of the Sith.

 

To be fair, Dooku should have realised that when the 'apprentice and heir to the Sith' is the same species and older then the Master, then you are not the Masters ideal Apprentice...

 

That sums it up, anakin_girl. Sidious had Anakin, and Dooku had Obi-Wan. Sidious won, which is good (from the Sith perspective) since Obi-Wan would've been harder to corrupt.

 

I've always thought that if Obi-Wan had been turned, he would have been a far greater Sith than Anakin. Not in terms of ULTIMATE POWAH!! but any turn of his would have been from a logic-based, Dooku-style turn that wouldn't have come from desperation about the death of a loved one, but a decision that the Jedi and the Republic are not the way to go.

And that's not really leaving any way to go back, because you'd never see any reason to do so. Certainly if 'Darth Kenobi' had been in Vader's shoes in ROTJ, he wouldn't have lifted a finger to save Luke, because he would have seen no logical reason to do so-and there'd be no emotional entanglement, either.

In other words, Anakin fell[/i\; Obi-Wan would have turned. Turning, IMO, is much more permanent than falling.

 

I think Dooku would have done to Obi-wan what he did to Quinlan, used him.

 

I think Dooku would have done to Obi-wan what he did to Quinlan, used him.

 

Also no.

The ROTS novel pretty clearly shows that Dooku wanted Obi-Wan as his apprentice.

 

In the end, the way the Sith work is to destroy each other. Eventhough there's the rule of 2, those 2 can conspire to kill the other. It wasn't known at the time that Kenobi was being held prisoner that Dooku was a Sith. If Obi-Wan was to join him, Dooku could train him in the dark side and have him try to overthrow Sidious, much the same way that Vader offered Luke the chance to destory the Emperor. The apprentice always has aspirations to kill the Master so they can become the Master and take an apprentice of their own.

 

its a double bluff as far as I can see. I believe Sidious instructed Dooku to test the water with the Jedi so to speak if the opportunity arose. He is, like Yoda says, creating mistrust. its perhaps why Sidious picked a former Jedi as his new apprentice and separatist leader in the first place. he probably believed it would better test their conscience and their loyalty. of course this changed when they found out Dooku was also a sith but i dont think that was part of the original plan.

look at it this way - if Kenobi rejects Dooku's advances as shown in the film, the sith will realise the jedi have rejected the possibility a sith might be in control of the senate - which them leaves them free from suspicion. but if kenobi and the jedi DO believe what dooku says and they join up with the separatists (whom we know sidious is secretly also coordinating) it gives sidious the mandate in the senate to see them destroyed (which is his ultimate goal). its a win-win situation for him.

 

Well said. I always saw it more along these lines than a simple "rule of two" attempt.

 

This has always been my thought as well. Perhaps one day Dooku planned to kill Sidious, but I do not think that his offer to Obi-Wan was genuine.

 

I assume that Dooku was just pulling Obi-Wan's leg. Sith are known for lying, and you can't really trust what they are saying...

 

But then why bother training an apprentice?

 

Sith are known for being teh bad guy, and are known for being accused of lying, at least.