"Was I any different when you taught me?"

I was watching ESB well just yesterday and this line stood out to me. I've watch ESB well past the point of counting but this line stood out.

When was Obi-Wan anything like Luke in the PT? He wasn't hot headed or over eager to jump into action.

 

I think that all Jedi are impatient as children or teens and even the older more experienced ones. If you remember TPM Obi-Wan does have those moments where he shows some slight impatience and openly shows annoyance at the way Qui-Gon handles some situations.

 

Qui-Gon yes. Obi-Wan no. Remember Qui-Gon was trained by Dooku. It's my humble opinion that the Jedi in training takes on the charateristics of their Master.

 

Jedibri you just contradicted yourself. First say that Qui-Gon is reckless and Jedi take on the characteristics of their master, yet you don't believe Obi-Wan inherited any recklessness from Qui-Gon. I disagree. There are plenty of times where Obi-Wan was careless and headstrong. For example:

1. TPM - Obi-Wan knows Anakin is dangerous and tells Qui-Gon so. However when Qui-Gon dies Obi-Wan does a complete 180, not because he re-evaluated his position on Anakin, but because he wanted to honor Qui-Gon's dying words. Extremely foolish to do something you believe is dangerous (especially when you were correct in your assumption).
2. AOTC - Obi-Wan jumping out the window and onto the droid like he's some kind of cowboy. Extremely lucky Anakin was able to grab a speeder and save him in time and that the droid didn't self-destruct.
3. AOTC - Going to Geonosis without calling back-up first. The moment Obi-Wan landed on the planet and saw all the Separatist facilities he should asked for back-up. Instead he delayed and that delay led to him getting captured.
4. ROTS - Jumping down to face Grevious. Again very lucky that Grevious elected to fight Obi-Wan one-on-one and didn't just tell his droids to blast Obi-Wan into slag.

These examples lend credence to Obi-Wan's claim of recklessness in his younger days.

 

and in TPM, during the duel, he walks around twirling his saber non-chalantly like he owns the place

 

It was a small plot hole, but I agree with those above and their points.

 

He is too old. Yes. Too old to begin the training.

 

It's not a plot hole at all.

 

I always thought his "pathetic life form" line showed arrogance and a lack of maturity

 

Clearly Obi-Wan could have learned from Jar Jar on how to be mature.

 

But, Obi-Wan never put's his own thought above the Jedi. He works with-in the Jedi way. Anakin is more free thinker. Much along the lines of Dooku & Qui-Gon.

Don't confuse Obi-Wan jumping out a window and other things as his own way of doing things. He did them all in the Jedi framework. Qui-Gon worked on his own for the most part telling Obi-Wan "I must do what I feel is right."

Obi-Wan was a seek the council first Jedi.

 

Like another poster said, most younglings are like Luke- eager to gain more strength and power, reckless with said power because they think they're invincible. But the movies never really showed this 100% for Obi Wan. Qui Gon was somewhat reckless and rebellious, and Obi Wan is even shown in TPM reprimanding his own master for it. "You would be on the council."

 

Was Yoda training Obi-Wan in the PT?

 

Yoda trained all the younglings, including Obi-Wan at times.

That line, "Was I any different when you trained me" spoke to off screen action. In the response you have your answer. Obi-Wan was likely a headstrong, reckless, arrogant youngling/Padawan like all the rest, we just never saw the full extent of it - he was already 25 when we saw him on screen I believe. The EU nowithstanding of course because the movies are not based on that.

 

Yep, Obi-Wan was a doofus in the Jedi Apprentice books, which were probably written with this line in mind.

 

No plot hole, though he seemed fine in the TPM.

 

he was also 25 in TPM, so lets hope he had matured. Like DarthBoba said, the whole line of Jedi Apprentice books shows this line, with Obi Wan kinda acting like a toned down Anakin. He's eager, reckless and sometimes even arrogant. Remember Yoda's line from AOTC though, that it's a flaw more common with Jedi as the years pass.

 

But, Obi-Wan never put's his own thought above the Jedi. He works with-in the Jedi way. Anakin is more free thinker. Much along the lines of Dooku & Qui-Gon.

I have to be honest. I don't find Obi-Wan's habit of never putting his own thought above the Jedi as very admirable. It almost seems as if he has allowed his life to revolve around the Jedi without any thought to his own individuality. Or even worse, the Jedi had become some kind of attachment for him and an unhealthy one at that. Sounds like he wasn't that different from Anakin.

 

Though I do agree with what you're saying, it's two different attatchments. Obi Wan was thankful to be a Jedi, because originally he was destined to go to the agricultural corps, so I'm guessing when he got his chance he held on tight. Obi Wan may have never established his own individuality outside of the Jedi Order, but it's because he was so dedicated to doing what was right, and for the greater good of the Jedi and the Republic. Anakin's attatchments were for the greater good of himself.

 

Well that is an odd ball way to describe love. Anakin loved Padme and she loved him back - there is something selfless in that. Same with Obi-Wan; Anakin loved him and was loved in return - ditto his mum. This was not a one-way selfish venture for Anakin. Those were the only 3 people Anakin was attached to unless you count C3P0 and R2D2.

They brought Anakin along late and thus, he had attachment problems, but only because he was a Jedi. They hadn't had to deal with a powerful attached Jedi before, apparently, so they screwed up.

Obi-Wan admitted he placed his attachment to Anakin over the Jedi, so I don't know why you are extolling Ben's virtues in this regard. And since you are venturing into the EU with his youth - let us not forget his little "I'm not attached oh YES I am" fling with good ole' S Tashi and his I'm so attached I can't pay attention to my charge problem with Qui-Gon.

In other words, Obi-Wan was not a man of many virtues anymore than Anakin was. He just controled himself better - except with Anakin. Anakin had little control at all.

Bottom line, you made it sound as if the Jedi way (no attachment) was brilliant because it was entirely selfless, but what is also is - is entirely impossible for many because it goes against Human nature.

 

Except the no attachment thing has been successfully practiced by many a human being on this planet. It is possible...it is not, however, a highly regarded or practiced way in modern society.

 

He jumped out of a window, over a nearly bottomless city scape, to grab onto a small floating ball. I'd say that qualifies at reckless.

It being impossible for many doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad idea though. People such as the Dalai Lama have achieved it. It just goes against the Western idea of what a human being's emotional state should be like.

 

It may be frowned upon by Western society, but it works out if it can be achieved. With no attatchments, a persons judgement is always clear because there is no bias. If Anakin had achieved letting go of his attatchments, it's safe to say he would never have turned to the darkside.

Although attatchment and love is a human trait, in AOTC Padme says "To be angry is human" and Anakin replies "I'm a jedi, I know I'm better then this" which implies although Jedi's can be human, they aren't allowed to let their humanity impact their actions and their use of the force.

 

"Master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future." - I think that line was partially an attempt to explain away both plotholes at the same time. For one, it implies that Yoda has had a significant influence on Obi-wan's training, and two, it implies that Obi-wan has a tendency to act before thinking.

 

Exactly.