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PT Was Maul trying to "save" Anakin from being taken by the Jedi?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by lord_sidious_, May 25, 2019.

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  1. lord_sidious_

    lord_sidious_ Jedi Master star 3

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    Feb 19, 2019
    Here's my analysis (well, not solely mine, I came up with this after discussing with my mom) of Maul's actions on Tatooine. I think he might have known about Anakin and tried to prevent (in his mind, "save") the future Sith Lord from being taken to Coruscant and trained into a Jedi.

    Before leaving Coruscant, this was Sidious and Maul's conversation:
    So the original intention was to:
    1. Have a head-on fight with the Jedi (they already know there's two of them) and kill them,
    2. Take the Queen to Naboo and force her to sign the treaty.

    Maul arrives on Tatooine at dawn. He sends three probe droids out, presumably to look for the Jedi and the Queen.

    The next time we see him is just before the Jedi leave Tatooine. A probe droid reports to him. The words I made out were: "The boy is going to leave."
    So my guess is that while the purpose of Maul coming to Tatooine was to get the Jedi and Queen, he also decided to check up on how Anakin was doing while he was there. And this is what he hears.

    In response, Maul immediately rushes to the Naboo cruiser. Interestingly, the probe droid does not need to lead the way for him. So at this point, he already knew where it was (a probe droid must have reported the location to him some time earlier), but didn't go for an attack until now. This is strange. If his goal was to kill the Jedi and kidnap the Queen, why doesn't he do anything upon finding out their location?
    My guess is that he also found out earlier that Anakin and Qui Gon were together. If he fights the Jedi (even if he only attacks the ship, someone might notify Qui Gon and he would rush over and join in), there's a chance that either himself or the Jedi might accidentally hurt Anakin. So Maul decided to hold off the fight until they leave Tatooine. But after discovering that the Jedi were trying to take Anakin away, he had to stop that from happening.

    On first view of the scene where Maul arrives at the cruiser, it looks like he was about to crash and kill Anakin. But on rewatch, I noticed that his upper body was leaning to the side, towards Anakin. If he was planning on crashing into him, he should be aiming straight at him. So perhaps Maul was actually trying to pick him up, but wasn't able to because Anakin dropped down.
    [​IMG]
    If we look at the following slow gif, we see that Maul begins to lean sideways just as he is approaching Anakin, and straightens back up after Anakin dropped down.
    [​IMG]

    Any thoughts on this? Of course this only makes sense if we go by the theory that either Plagueis or Sidious created Anakin. Maul wouldn't care about random children joining the Jedi.

    Also note this line from Qui Gon: "Had he been born in the Republic, we would have identified him early." So if Sidious or Plagueis did create him, it makes sense that they would hide him in the Outer Rim to prevent the Jedi from finding him. Sidious must have been waiting for some opportunity (perhaps after wiping out the Jedi?) to fetch him from Tatooine and begin his training.
     
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  2. lord_sidious_

    lord_sidious_ Jedi Master star 3

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    Feb 19, 2019
    By the way, immediately prior to the podrace, there's a scene of a probe droid whizzing through the streets and seemingly talking to itself. Was anyone able to make out the words?
     
  3. Dandelo

    Dandelo SW and Film Music Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Aug 25, 2014
    I think you are reaching to be quite honest with you :p

    Also if Qui-Gon hadn't have turned when he did and shouted for Anakin to drop, Anakin would have been bug squat. Maul simply didn't care Anakin was in the way. If he did you'd think "Gee, move kid" would have sufficed.
     
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  4. themoth

    themoth Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 5, 2015
    Maul was looking to run Anakin over, kill Qui-Gon and anyone else in his way.
     
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  5. CLee

    CLee Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jun 18, 2017
    No, I don't think it does. Especially given the implied if not canon that Sidious did raise Maul from birth or pretty close to it, the biggest point against that the Sith created Anakin, though it is an interesting idea with some film support for it, is that he would be either created or left so far away from him or them and with such a random (but also benevolent) person like Shmi.

    As for the GIF, there's some movement but too little and unclear to tell much about his intentions, while I don't recall a droid mentioning the boy to him.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  6. lord_sidious_

    lord_sidious_ Jedi Master star 3

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    Feb 19, 2019
    If Anakin has a higher potential with the Force than Maul, he might be more difficult to hide. Qui Gon and Obi Wan sensed a disturbance in the Force as soon as they landed on Tatooine, which could be caused by Anakin's presence.

    Tatooine might be the closest of the Outer Rim planets to Naboo, hence why the Jedi decided to land there to repair and refuel the ship.
    Choosing a benevolent person is important so she won't abort or discard the mysterious fetus/infant.
    In the Outer Rim, it looks like the ones with wealth and power are mostly non-humans. Anakin might be safer as a slave to someone with some status than a free person (Sebulba: "If you weren't a slave, I'd squash you now").

    The droid's words aren't written in the script (it just says "beeps and whistles"), but both my mom and I heard "the boy" on first watch. I had to replay that part several times to make out the rest of the sentence. You can try listening to it for yourself, it's at about 1 hour and 16 minutes into the film, just after Anakin says good bye to his mother, and just before Qui Gon and Maul's fight on Tatooine.
     
  7. Vader fan 99

    Vader fan 99 Jedi Knight star 1

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    May 6, 2019
    That is an interesting theory
     
  8. lord_sidious_

    lord_sidious_ Jedi Master star 3

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    Feb 19, 2019
    Hey is that one of Maul's droids in the background? This is just after the podrace, Watto doesn't want to hand over Anakin.
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Straudenbecker

    Straudenbecker Jedi Master star 3

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    Nov 22, 2015
    You are right lord-sidious, the droid does say that.
    What my interpretation of Mauls actions are is instead of dispatching the them one by one, he was gathering Intel on their movements. Like you I already concluded that Maul knew the location of their ship. To dispatch them one by one, would have had a chance of them raising the alarm of his presence on the planet. He felt it would have been best if he had attacked the group in one felt swoop, thus he was sure of himself and over confident of his abilities, which his force and lightsaber arts were evident of his strong ability in the force. He exhausted Qui Gon, thus forcing the Jedi to retreat after the ship was off the ground and the Jedi was not going to risk his life into battling Maul when he sense the others were now in no immediate danger.
    Yes that droid does look like one of the ones Maul sent to scout out the land.
     
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  10. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Force Ghost star 4

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    Feb 24, 2005
    Maul wasn’t trying to save anyone. His target was the Queen and anyone in his way were dead. Running over some random kid wouldn’t have mattered to him — notice how he didn’t attempt to swerve out of the way.
     
  11. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 10

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    May 18, 2017
    I imagine his bike speeder insurance might have gone up if he took out Anakin.
     
  12. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

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    Nov 12, 2012
    actually if Anakin hadn't listened to Qui-gon when he said "Drop!" the scene would have basically been Maul child-snatching Anakin onto his back and then pulling a 180 and hauling the kid back to his ship. Thanks again, Qui-Gon!
     
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  13. lord_sidious_

    lord_sidious_ Jedi Master star 3

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    Feb 19, 2019
    But the Queen was on the ship with Obi Wan (well, as far as Maul would think). With one of the Jedi at a distance, isn't that the best opportunity to attack? This isn't Order 66 yet. The primary goal was to get the Queen to sign the treaty, not eliminating the two Jedi who happened to be sent on this mission. If Qui Gon rushes back, Maul can fight both of them. If Qui Gon doesn't come back, Maul can still try to kill Obi Wan and then kidnap the Queen. True there will be an extra Jedi left alive in the galaxy for the time being, but no difference to the overall scheme of things.
     
  14. Straudenbecker

    Straudenbecker Jedi Master star 3

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    Nov 22, 2015
    Keep in mind that a master and an apprentice develop a connection to one another through the force over the course of the apprentice's training. If one is killed or hurt badly the other will feel it, rush to help the other and be on their guard. If Maul attacked the ship with Qui Gon not present, the jedi would deduce that someone trained in lightsaber arts was involved. The Jedi would find a way to communicate to the jedi council to report what he has found out. Weather he and the council could deduce that the Sith had returned is a different matter, only that someone trained in the arts was involved. They would take precautions and be more interested in the queen signing a treaty with the Trade Federation, knowing that something was afoul, and bring it to Chancellor Valorum and the Senate attention. Why do you think Darth Sidious instructed Darth Maul to move against the Jedi first, then take the Queen? Because if one Jedi survives, then Darth Sidious plans would either fall apart or would have been hindered creating more work for him, and all his and his predecessors plans would have been ruined if one Jedi survived had they nabbed the Queen. The Jedi would have also come to realize that who ever was behind the attack and treaty had great influence in the Senate. How the events turned out was actually a blessing for Darth Sidious for the long game.
     
  15. Vorax

    Vorax Force Ghost star 5

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    Jun 10, 2014
    Yeah, his speeder isn't called the Bloodfin for nothing. ;)

    Yeah, I think if he sensed if the boy was Force sensitive which was indeed very possible from that expression Maul gave the boy as he passed by - then he probably would've viewed him more like a padawan youngling type than anything else at that point and terminated him. Maul did have a knowledge of the Chosen One myth/legend we learned in Rebels, but like Obi Wan he believed the other boy(Luke) as being destroyer of the Sith not Anakin. For this scene though, not really sure the timing would've been right to analyze young Anakin there, since his mission was to track down the Queen and eliminate the Jedi that protected her and all witnesses basically in typical Sith fashion.

    If Maul realized the boy Anakin's potential there like Jinn had the time too, he may kept Anakin as his own secret since Maul even so early had temptations and designs of his own to destroy Sidious, plus both Light and Dark possibilities could've existed for him we learn in the two Maul comics released thus far and they take place right before TPM. Maul does seem to want to take an apprentice of his own even before TPM started with Elda Kaitis and perhaps that Zek Peiro Force sensitive thief he lured out but ultimately he eliminated both of them due his Sith code and appetite for destruction.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  16. lord_sidious_

    lord_sidious_ Jedi Master star 3

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    Feb 19, 2019
    Ok I see, you're saying Maul had to kill both Jedi in order to keep the Sith's existence a secret.
    I'd say that's pretty difficult after an open attack though. While he's fighting the Jedi, the others on the ship might figure that their location has already been discovered by their enemies, so there is no harm in contacting Valorum or someone to call for help. Or they might run off the ship and hide in random places on Tatooine. If any one of them survives, they might be able to explain to the senate at a later date about what happened. A brief description of the situation (e.g. "a mysterious person fighting the Jedi using a lightsaber") would probably be enough to make the Jedi Council suspect the Sith.
    Also, Sidious's words were, "Move against the Jedi first. You will then have no difficulty taking the Queen back to Naboo to sign the treaty." It seems like the reason for attacking the Jedi first was just to get the problematic people out of the way so that the rest of the job with the Queen will go smoothly.
     
  17. lord_sidious_

    lord_sidious_ Jedi Master star 3

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    Feb 19, 2019
    I agree Maul didn't have much opportunity to analyze Anakin there, so my thought only makes sense if Maul knew about Anakin beforehand. This requires that 1) Sidious or Plagueis created Anakin and 2) Sidious trusts Maul's loyalty enough to tell him about Anakin.
     
  18. Darth Boycs

    Darth Boycs Jedi Knight star 1

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    Apr 25, 2018
    Sidious' grand plan surely required Anakin to be taken in and trained as a Jedi, and then to be turned later.
     
  19. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Force Ghost star 4

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    Feb 24, 2005
    Did he even know Anakin existed yet? The end of the film with him saying, “We will watch your career with great interest” seems to suggest that he hadn’t met Anakin before that moment.
     
  20. lord_sidious_

    lord_sidious_ Jedi Master star 3

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    Feb 19, 2019
    But it's much harder to spend 10+ years of building trust and manipulation to turn him than it is to simply free him from Watto and invite him to join him.

    Well he's not going to start a huge conversation about how he created him and everything right?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
  21. lord_sidious_

    lord_sidious_ Jedi Master star 3

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    Feb 19, 2019
    This is Qui Gon's description of Tatooine:
    "It's in a system far beyond the reach of the Trade Federation."
    "A few spaceports like this one are havens for those that don't wish to be found."

    If we turn the quotes around, it can explain why Sidious might choose to hide Anakin there:
    "It's in a system far beyond the reach of the Trade Federation Jedi."
    "A few spaceports like this one are havens for those that the one whom I don't wish to be found."
    Unfortunately for Sidious, this backfired because the Jedi chose to go the Tatooine for the same reasons he chose there.
     
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  22. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Two Truths & Lie winner! star 5 VIP - Game Winner

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    May 27, 1999
    I agree that Sidious planned for a whole lot of possible events as he went for the long con in his effort to destroy both the Jedi and the Republic. But this idea is really reaching. I simply can't accept that he was responsible for everything or planned for everything.
     
  23. Darth Boycs

    Darth Boycs Jedi Knight star 1

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    Apr 25, 2018
    But it's much harder to spend 10+ years of building trust and manipulation to turn him than it is to simply free him from Watto and invite him to join him.

    Sure. But how likely is someone who was "simply freed" and "invited to join him" to succeed in overthrowing the Jedi? Compared with someone who was taken in by the Jedi and trained by them in their ways?

    And as we have seen, Palpatine always had his eye on the long game. Patience was his trump card.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  24. lord_sidious_

    lord_sidious_ Jedi Master star 3

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    Feb 19, 2019
    But Sidious thinks the dark side is so much better than the light side, I doubt his Plan A involved his precious creation getting raised and trained by the Jedi, whom he so much despised. He's confident that dark can beat light.
    Besides, Sidious still had Maul (I'm pretty sure Sidious didn't expect Maul to get killed so soon) to help him overthrow the Jedi. It's possible that his original plan for that didn't even involve Anakin. Maul was to help him create the Sith's empire, while Anakin was to continue it (i.e. become his successor).
     
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