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PT Was Nute Gunray an idiot?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Matty20172018, May 29, 2018.

  1. Matty20172018

    Matty20172018 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 20, 2017
    I'm curious.

    Did Nute Gunray, the viceroy of the Trade Federation, have any awareness that the Dark Lord he was dealing with in the Phantom Menace was actually also a Senator (of Naboo no less!), later Chancellor, of the Republic, an institution that Gunray was looking to bring down to it's knee's?

    Was he at any point in the prequels ever aware that Sidious was actually also the Chancellor of the Republic, who he was actively leading a fight against?

    To me it seems likely he wasn't aware, at least definitely not during the events of The Phantom Menace, as he actually in the presence of Chancellor Palpatine when he landed on Naboo at the end of the film, and they didn't seem to question him or anything.

    But then during Attack of the Clones it seems that Gunray is sort of dealing more directly with Dooku rather than Sidious this time. Does he know the truth in any context at this point?

    And in Revenge of the Sith he does directly talk with Sidious just prior to the arrival of Vader / Anakin, who is seemingly thanked by Sidious; "You have done well, Viceroy!".

    And his final plead for mercy with Vader is "The war is over, Lord Sidious promised us peace, we only want...!" - dead!

    Did he, at any point, know the truth?
     
  2. Oissan

    Oissan Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    No, he didn't know the truth. He was nothing but a pawn who knew about selective details of the plan, but not what they actually meant.

    To him, Sidious was a secretive figure who had some sort of influence on other senate-members. The one question that I'm not so sure about is whether Dooku actually said the truth to Obi Wan about the Trade Federation. As far as I can remember, he mentioned that Gunray came to him for help, after being "betrayed" by the Dark Lord he worked with in TPM, yet in ROTS Gunray takes orders from Sidious just fine. Either Dooku was actually lying about that bit, or he only mentioned the connection to Sidious later on, in a "you thought he betrayed you, but he helped you all the time" kind of move. After all, for all the punishment the TF got after TPM, the whole thing still got bogged down and Gunray was still in charge.
     
  3. firesaber

    firesaber Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 5, 2006
    I think it was Dooku trying to co-opt Obi-Wan or at least test him out skewed the tale to do so:



    All Nute knew was that Sidious had influence and sway and could make things happen but without knowing how.
     
  4. Matty20172018

    Matty20172018 Jedi Knight star 1

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    Aug 20, 2017
    I thought it was neat touch, in how Gunray is presented as a really worried figure in Revenge of the Sith though. I think he sort of knew that he was in 'WAY' over his head at this point. He first lashed out at Grevious "I have doubt about your ability to keep us safe!"

    And then his plainly worried expression when Sidious contacts him later... classic. He knows he's in trouble here I reckon... [​IMG]
     
  5. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    [​IMG]

    No, Nute was unaware that Palpatine was Sidious. He was aware that Sidious was behind Dooku, but the rest, nope. He wasn't an idiot for not knowing that, but was for trusting the Sith given their past reputation. He was also blinded by greed which is why he went along with it.
     
  6. BadCane

    BadCane Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 28, 2015
    This got me confused some years ago too, but the answer is that he didn't know.
     
  7. ConservativeJedi321

    ConservativeJedi321 Force Ghost star 6

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    Mar 19, 2016
    I don't think not knowing who Darth Sidious is makes one an idiot. There are a lot of people who didn't see it coming. (And far more who encounter him if you take non-film material into account).

    Though I should expect that it would be obvious throwing in with a genocidal maniac isn't to good for business at the very least. I can only imagine he was to frightened to ask questions, or in any way oppose him. In legends the dark lord introduced himself to Gunray by strangling his newly acquired bird from across the galaxy, that would certainly leave an impression on me too.[face_worried]
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  8. Christus Regnet

    Christus Regnet Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2016
    No one is going to just walk away from dealing with Sidious, like " That Sidious is one shady dude. I don't think I'm going to do business with him anymore."

    No, it doesn't work like that. There's no witness protection program for corrupt corporate CEOs that can keep you hidden from the Dark Lord of the Sith.

    The best Nute can hope for is that his usefulness outlasts his liability, but surely he knows deep down that it isn't going to end well for him.
     
    The_Phantom_Calamari likes this.
  9. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 10, 2011
    Nute got greedy and made a deal with the devil at some point prior to TPM, but as we see he eventually realized he was in over his head and started to regret it. But it was too late to back out.
     
  10. DarthHass

    DarthHass Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2004
    Yes -- for trusting the sith.

    I also think it's implied in his name given to him by George. Isn't it a take on newt Gingrich and Ronald Reagan?
     
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  11. Matt_201

    Matt_201 Jedi Master

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    Apr 21, 2009
    I very much doubt anyone par Dooku knew that Palpatine was Sidious.

    As for Nute, I don't think he was in idiot so much as a poor judge of character and an opportunist. It was silly of him to join with the Sith in TPM, but I wouldn't say that defines him as an idiot, and in AoTC/RotS the Separatists are a genuine political entity.
     
  12. bizzbizz

    bizzbizz Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 16, 2015
    He had no idea and was easily manipulated by greed and fear so the perfect target for a sith pawn
     
  13. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    I looked up "idiot" in the dictionary, and got:

    [​IMG]

    So, yes?
     
  14. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Basically yes...

    The Trade Federation were blinded by greed. Remember as TPM goes along you can see that he getting in over his head which is a theme that happens all the way through the PT with the Trade Federation.
     
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  15. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 7, 2012
    I think Nute Gunray was a subtle attempt at criticizing the industrial capitalist by GL, someone who was used by the power hungry politician(s), playing on the capitalist's greed. The capitalist's narcissistic ambition revolved solely on gaining more and more wealth, it blinded him that he was being used for ulterior motives that had little in common with his own.
     
  16. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 10, 2011
    "There's always a bigger fish."